Would you lease an automated trading system - Commodities Futures Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Would you lease an automated trading system
Updated: Views / Replies:3,716 / 12
Created: by dom993 Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Would you lease an automated trading system

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
OTTAWA ON/CANADA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ensign, NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 11 since May 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 12 received

Would you lease an automated trading system

Hi there,

I am a retail trader, specialized in designing & trading my own automated trading systems (currently focused on CL, intraday).

I have reached a point where I have traded profitably my primary system for the last 8 months, at minimum position size & reduced setup-scope, and I am trading it in 2013 to the max of my trading account.

In parallel, I am evaluating a couple of options to monetize this trading system while I trade it live - one of these options being to offer the Ninja strategy for lease.

I have the following questions for you:

1. "Would you ever lease an automated trading system"?
2. "If yes, what would be the key aspects you would base your due-diligence & final decision on"?
3. "Would you rather lease a system running on NinjaTrader, or would a signal-service off Collective2 be a better alternative for you"?

I voluntarily didn't provide any information re. this system. If, from your answers, I decide on pursuing this idea, I will do so through whatever appropriate means for this forum.

Thanks in advance for your responses

Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Administrator: Retired Backtester
 Vendor: speedytradingservers.com 
Rennes France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
sam028's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,366 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 3,573 given, 3,982 received


1. their are already hundreds of snake oil vendors, selling a "fair" system might means less profit for this guys, so yes, it might be a good idea.
2. if you're system is profitable enough, I'm not sure you'll have to rent it. That will also put more pressure on you if things goes wrong for your "customers". On the other side, it could be nice to not being alone to try the same idea.
3. C2 is not good for intraday signals, too slow, and not reliable. You may sell the strategy directly, or if you're paranoid and good enough in C# create your own signal service yourself (a "server" strategy running on your machine will send signals to your customers "client" strategy, which won't have to be very smart, and which won't have any part of the main logic).

Success requires no deodorant! (Sun Tzu)
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sam028 for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,933 given, 2,783 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


dom993 View Post
Hi there,

I am a retail trader, specialized in designing & trading my own automated trading systems (currently focused on CL, intraday).

I have reached a point where I have traded profitably my primary system for the last 8 months, at minimum position size & reduced setup-scope, and I am trading it in 2013 to the max of my trading account.

In parallel, I am evaluating a couple of options to monetize this trading system while I trade it live - one of these options being to offer the Ninja strategy for lease.

I have the following questions for you:

1. "Would you ever lease an automated trading system"?
2. "If yes, what would be the key aspects you would base your due-diligence & final decision on"?
3. "Would you rather lease a system running on NinjaTrader, or would a signal-service off Collective2 be a better alternative for you"?

I voluntarily didn't provide any information re. this system. If, from your answers, I decide on pursuing this idea, I will do so through whatever appropriate means for this forum.

Thanks in advance for your responses

We are always interested (as brokers) in finding good systems for our customers. I would have to say that yes there are many simply out right "dysfunctional" systems out there, however I also find that the retail customers at times also have unrealistic expectations as far as return and the inability to go through drawdowns (which could be very lengthy).

Your approach in selling your system has to be balanced and preparing the customer to the potential drawdown.
As an example, many vendors see a draw down of 9K on their systems and ask to open an account with 10K.
This is unbalanced and no one can stomach such drawdowns.

The fact you have traded your systems is VERY encouraging, so I would encourage you to explore ways to lease the systems for a monthly fair price if you believe its logic could be traded long term. Also, in fairness to customers, you should be able to change (only if necessary) the parameters if you think the system needs tweaking.

BTW, asking for opinions on any trading forum about systems will get you these replies:
1) "I paper traded my systems and I can get 300% a month!"
2) "if it's so good why sell it?" (those who trash vendors and systems here get many many thanks!)

As Sam mentioned and I share the same sentiment: going via a 3rd party can be costly in terms of execution.
We sign NDA (non disclosure agreements) and trade the systems in house for customers to avoid latency in execution.

What I don't like about certain vendors:
1) Lack of regulatory disclaimer (out right hype)
2) Leasing the system directly to customers (lack of responsibility in terms of the lots traded, especially CL)

As I write this, we are trying to build a reporting mechanism that will report real performance and not just the hypothetical that seem to rule the system world.

Matt

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Last edited by mattz; January 3rd, 2013 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Indianapolis, IN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: North-American Derivatives Exchange
Broker/Data: Forexpros
Favorite Futures: forex binaries
 
lili's Avatar
 
Posts: 38 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 14 given, 21 received

interesting idea - but no thanks.

I am extremely sceptical, very risk adverse, and I have a hard time believing that anybody would be as interested as I am myself in generating a profit for me.

I am a retail trader myself, and I developed my own (simple, manual, but highly effective) strategy tailored to fit all my own needs, specifically for the platform that I work with.

I would never consider "renting out" that strategy to anybody, for several reasons:
1, friendship ends where money is involved
2, I don't want to feel responsible for other peoples' losses
3, I don't have a license as a financial advisor
4, if my strategy is as good as I think it is, it will only create greed and envy with my "customers"

Reply With Quote
 
  #6 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,933 given, 2,783 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


lili View Post
interesting idea - but no thanks.

I am extremely sceptical, very risk adverse, and I have a hard time believing that anybody would be as interested as I am myself in generating a profit for me.

I am a retail trader myself, and I developed my own (simple, manual, but highly effective) strategy tailored to fit all my own needs, specifically for the platform that I work with.

I would never consider "renting out" that strategy to anybody, for several reasons:
1, friendship ends where money is involved
2, I don't want to feel responsible for other peoples' losses
3, I don't have a license as a financial advisor
4, if my strategy is as good as I think it is, it will only create greed and envy with my "customers"

People who utilize 3rd party vendors are not looking for "friends", they look for people who hopefully trade their own method and willing to share it on a fee basis. Some profitable traders continue to a healthy CTA (commodity trading advisor) career where they participate in sharing profits as well.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Indianapolis, IN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: North-American Derivatives Exchange
Broker/Data: Forexpros
Favorite Futures: forex binaries
 
lili's Avatar
 
Posts: 38 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 14 given, 21 received


mattz View Post
People who utilize 3rd party vendors are not looking for "friends", they look for people who hopefully trade their own method and willing to share it on a fee basis. Some profitable traders continue to a healthy CTA (commodity trading advisor) career where they participate in sharing profits as well.

I realize that, but that wasn't the question

the question was whether I would lease an automated trading system.

I simply explained my reasons why I wouldn't.
The use of the word "friendship" was meant in a metaphorical sense - meaning a lot of negative feelings (like greed, envy, distrust) may be involved when money is part of the deal.
I also really enjoy my profession (I'm a programmer) and have absolutely no intentions to become anybody's financial advisor - even if I was totally confident in my trading method.
Also, since I am totally confident in my trading method, I don't believe I would benefit from an automated trading system. Why would I let some "robot" play a highly entertaining and rewarding "brain-game" on my behalf?

Reply With Quote
 
  #8 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1,933 given, 2,783 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


lili View Post
I realize that, but that wasn't the question

the question was whether I would lease an automated trading system.

I simply explained my reasons why I wouldn't.
The use of the word "friendship" was meant in a metaphorical sense - meaning a lot of negative feelings (like greed, envy, distrust) may be involved when money is part of the deal.
I also really enjoy my profession (I'm a programmer) and have absolutely no intentions to become anybody's financial advisor - even if I was totally confident in my trading method.
Also, since I am totally confident in my trading method, I don't believe I would benefit from an automated trading system. Why would I let some "robot" play a highly entertaining and rewarding "brain-game" on my behalf?

Respected.

Having said all that, the lease of a system is nothing but you sharing methodology with others. This does not constitute a financial advisor in the traditional sense of the word.

I do agree that leasing your system to other may be a very emotional experience for for the lessor and lessee.
But, as I have mentioned before in many posts systems trading is not emotions free.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to mattz for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
OTTAWA ON/CANADA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ensign, NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 11 since May 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 12 received


artemiso View Post
@dom993

If you are planning to lease out your trading system to recover development costs, I have one suggestion:

Regardless of what your strategy signals involve, add a random number generator to your trading signals, which generates a 50-50 chance of going either short or long at every signal. This way, half of your customers' systems will make correct predictions at every turn. Over time, there will be a portion of your customers who will have remained profitable over a long period of time through your system, and continue leasing your system.

You will retain more customers and earn more money as a vendor this way.


This is really a stupid post. If I had any power on this site, I would have you banned. Get lost.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to dom993 for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received



dom993 View Post
This is really a stupid post. If I had any power on this site, I would have you banned. Get lost.

Wow, that must have been the first time that I've received such a callous remark.

I admit that was a tongue-in-cheek post to catch your attention. You asked for a means to monetize the trading system, and we've given a variety of thought-out ideas and the least you could do is to acknowledge it. I think a minimum level of politeness expects that you talk to those who try to help you. (At least I got a "get lost". Thanks.)

But I prefer not to escalate it, and apologize if there's any reason why it would offend you.

Good luck.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to artemiso for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > Would you lease an automated trading system

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My first automated trading system sthlmjohan Elite Automated Trading 4 November 7th, 2012 06:41 PM
What is the highest win% you have seen a trading system, automated or manual, have? ElectricWiz Traders Hideout 29 May 8th, 2012 07:00 PM
EOT Automated System pedroxp Trading Reviews and Vendors 59 December 10th, 2009 03:37 AM
Looking for a good intro automated system in ninja cashinvestor NinjaTrader 1 July 2nd, 2009 03:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.16 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.221.93.187