How many contracts can you trade before affecting market in CL and GC markets? - Commodities Futures Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


How many contracts can you trade before affecting market in CL and GC markets?
Updated: Views / Replies:15,164 / 58
Created: by acdrew0 Attachments:1

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 1  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

How many contracts can you trade before affecting market in CL and GC markets?

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
indianapolis
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nt, ts
 
Posts: 15 since May 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 2 received

How many contracts can you trade before affecting market in CL and GC markets?

How many contracts can a short term trader enter in general without affecting the way the market moves in the CL and GC markets?

I have been given advice by people who taught me that the forex markets can easily tolerate 10-20, maybe more. So that is what I have been following for those markets.

But then I saw the market depth numbers on my matrix(I use tradestation) on the CL and GC markets and they seem to be significantly lower than the forex ones like euro or pound. Sometimes almost 3-4 times less.

I thought this was strange seeing that the daily volume of gold was comparable to the forex markets, also the crude oil daily volume was usually quite a bit more than the forex markets.

Does the gold and crude oil market depth have some type of multiplier that I am not aware of? Do they differ in the "safe" amount of contracts possible to trade short term without affecting the market much?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to acdrew0 for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,681 given, 3,622 received


I'm pretty sure 10-20 contracts is fine even for scalping a few ticks

Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
portland, OR
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation
Broker/Data: Optimus/Rithmic
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 50 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 5 given, 18 received


acdrew0 View Post
How many contracts can a short term trader enter in general without affecting the way the market moves in the CL and GC markets?

I have been given advice by people who taught me that the forex markets can easily tolerate 10-20, maybe more. So that is what I have been following for those markets.

Snip...

I'm wondering how exactly do you translate the market depth information into a number of contracts that you can safely trade without affecting the market ?

Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
@ Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: FDAX
 
Posts: 441 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 254 given, 369 received


pepelucho View Post
I'm wondering how exactly do you translate the market depth information into a number of contracts that you can safely trade without affecting the market ?

Thats exactly my question too. Currently i build the mean volume at the underlaying bar type +/- 3-5 bars from historical data set (same weekday / same time slot) and adjust my volume up to 25-80%. But i think that the market depth information could be a more valuable source (but false quotas / spoofing could be an problem).

Koepisch

Reply With Quote
 
  #6 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
portland, OR
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation
Broker/Data: Optimus/Rithmic
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 50 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 5 given, 18 received

volume matters

it should be noted also, that this will depend on the volume level when trades are placed. CL tends to have much higher volume in the first 2 to 3 hours after the open, and like 1 to 2 hours before the close.

I have been trading CL for about 2 years now and haven't yet tried more than 3 contracts as I'm still perfecting my system, but from that experience, I think guessing 10 contracts is the threshold. I base this from watching the Times and Sales window in NinjaTrader which shows real time fills. From what I've seen, most fills are single contract, during large volume or large trades you'll see fills amping up, but generally they happen one at a time. Also a good 10 to 15 contracts will get filled before the fill price ticks either up or down. This is *generally*, it really depends on the time of day and how active the trading is.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to pepelucho for this post:
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,681 given, 3,622 received

Unless you're a millionaire there is no need to worry about this


Last edited by Itchymoku; December 10th, 2012 at 02:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #8 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
portland, OR
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation
Broker/Data: Optimus/Rithmic
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 50 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 5 given, 18 received


Itchymoku View Post
Unless you're a millionaire and solely rely on short term scalping you shouldn't worry about it. Regardless, Most scalping strategies that aren't time/sales or arbitrage related can be applied to larger time frames where you can drop hundreds of contracts.


I disagree, I have a strategy that on average takes 30 to 40 ticks of profit or 15 ticks of loss, and trades about 1 to 3 times a day, which generates 300% per year, and I do worry about what will happen as I start increasing number of contracts.

and I'm not a millionaire...

Reply With Quote
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB / Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 482 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 650 given, 625 received


pepelucho View Post
I disagree, I have a strategy that on average takes 30 to 40 ticks of profit or 15 ticks of loss, and trades about 1 to 3 times a day, which generates 300% per year, and I do worry about what will happen as I start increasing number of contracts.

and I'm not a millionaire...

You will then become a millionaire in a heartbeat
Congrats!

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Reply With Quote
 
  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,681 given, 3,622 received


If you make 300% a year and can prove it contact me via pm, I'll give you money to trade with.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Itchymoku for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > How many contracts can you trade before affecting market in CL and GC markets?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why get dedicated servers near CME if they trade CL, yet CL's exchange is is NYMEX? jpollei Traders Hideout 9 October 9th, 2016 07:00 AM
GC and CL, no trading today? iPlayGames Traders Hideout 5 April 6th, 2012 09:03 AM
CL and GC daily charts joe11 Traders Hideout 6 January 15th, 2012 07:07 PM
What other markets trade like the CL skyfly Traders Hideout 34 May 15th, 2011 01:44 PM
Question about CL and QM Contracts DannyG Traders Hideout 22 December 6th, 2009 08:11 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:13 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-15 in 0.08 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.90.92.204