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Futures vs CFD with AMP futures, Forex.com and Cityindex.co.uk


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Futures vs CFD with AMP futures, Forex.com and Cityindex.co.uk

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  #1 (permalink)
Istanbul / Turkey
 
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Hi everyone,

Several months ago i have created an AMP account and funded it. I have traded it several weeks. The thing i have seen was like never seen before. As soon as i execute a trade, 90% time, market went against me. This has never happened before last 3 years. I was stressed out a lot. I have sent them an email and basically it was the following email:




They have sent me some rude emails and basically said, they are not selling our identity. And I have asked one more thing, can anyone see our stop orders, limit orders, positions and etc. and tag them with a unique id? And they have terminated my account and asked me to withdraw money.

Forex.com and Cityindex did the same. Without any reply, they have closed my account. I have written this thread and wrote review about cityindex on trustpilot. Somehow they have removed it each time i posted a review.

After a few months, i wanted to give AMP a try and asked them if you re-activate my account, i would like to fund again.

They have accepted and i have funded with the minimum requirements. This time, the reason was to use rithmic data. However, they told me they will not re-activate the account and asked me to withdraw. I did and they have cut $30.00 transfer cost. I have also paid to my bank because of overseas trqansfer. This was not about money but i have sent them several emails and they have paid me that amount.

I can share more screenshots from my emails. These guys are not trusted.

This is just what i think...!

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  #2 (permalink)
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@Ates

Playing devil's advocate here: if you issue a statement to either an IB or a clearing firm that you forbid anyone to associate your own ID with your trades, you are essentially telling them that you disagree with their terms and conditions.

A broker must be able to see what trade was executed by whom, and they do so by their system pairing the ID they created to identify you when you registered with them with the trades you execute.

It would be tantamount to you telling FIO that you forbid the site owner to identify your account with your email, or your IP address, because you don't want to be tracked.


It would be chaos if brokers couldn't tell which trader traded what, don't you think?

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  #3 (permalink)
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Are you talking about selling order flow, like Robinhood does or most "retail" names like TDA, ThinkOrSwim, Schwab, etc.

Big firms like Two Sigma (who has an account here btw), Virtu, Citadel are buying that order flow. That's how these brokers above are able to offer free commissions. Of course they are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts! Their doing it because they found a legal way to say it's free, when really it isn't.

You are still paying, just not a "commission". It's all marketing and perception. In fact, AMP does something similar. They lowered their "commissions" but then in return they have a "clearing fee". If you look at other broker quotes, you'll often not see this "clearing fee" but you'll see a higher "commission". What's important is to make sure you really understand your complete end-to-end cost per trade.

Now the thing is, with futures, you cannot sell order flow. There is another thread about this already on FIO here:



As for why AMP closed your account? Well, in my opinion and based on my knowledge from the forum, AMP is primarily interested in "rookie" traders that fund with low amounts of money, blow-up, and then continually fund their accounts again and again. It's my belief that is their main customer source/model.

They don't want "problem" customers who ask questions, because then you start costing them money. So my guess is, they decided to fire you as a customer, which is their right.

I don't know any of this for sure of course. But you can read a few hundred thousand posts on this forum and talk to dozens of brokers in the industry, and then you'll probably reach the same opinion as me.

Mike

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  #4 (permalink)
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Actually my concern is the following:

They don't need to know my name. But let's say they tagged me as trader X. When i post or execute an order, if they are sharing like "Trader X posted or executed a limit or stop order with id ###" then we have zero chance to win as our hand is open. If we have a unique id and exchange our broker shares this id by matching our orders or trades, again, we don't have much probability of winning.

I have reached out to SEC and CME. CME required Tag50 from brokers. It's okay to know who we are. I don't think CME is sharing our information. SEC has sent me the following email:


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  #5 (permalink)
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Ates View Post
Actually my concern is the following:

They don't need to know my name. But let's say they tagged me as trader X. When i post or execute an order, if they are sharing like "Trader X posted or executed a limit or stop order with id ###" then we have zero chance to win as our hand is open. If we have a unique id and exchange our broker shares this id by matching our orders or trades, again, we don't have much probability of winning.

When you say "They don't need to know my name", who is "They"?

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  #6 (permalink)
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Ates View Post
Actually my concern is the following:

They don't need to know my name. But let's say they tagged me as trader X. When i post or execute an order, if they are sharing like "Trader X posted or executed a limit or stop order with id ###" then we have zero chance to win as our hand is open. If we have a unique id and exchange our broker shares this id by matching our orders or trades, again, we don't have much probability of winning.

From reading your posts here and in another thread on AMP, it seems to me that your concern is that someone will be able to track your individual trades, or in fact has done this, and then can trade against you. That is, someone specifically wants to take the opposite side of your trades, you individually, and that this is a reason why you have had losses.

In the other thread, you put it this way:


Ates View Post
Several months ago, i have opened an account with AMP. After trading a while, i have sent them an email and asked "I'm not allowing anyone to tag me with my trades, positions, orders and share my data with 3rd party". Because if anyone knows and tags your trades, they easily can train an AI on it and trade against you.

And here, you wrote:


Ates View Post
Several months ago i have created an AMP account and funded it. I have traded it several weeks. The thing i have seen was like never seen before. As soon as i execute a trade, 90% time, market went against me. This has never happened before last 3 years.

Have I understood you correctly, that you are concerned that someone is tracking or can track your trades, and has used or can use the trades identified as yours to trade against you, and this is why you have experienced losses?

Bob.

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  #7 (permalink)
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So the reason for price movement in ES "some bad guys whant steal your money". I'am also trade with AMP, and wen i loose, i blame my self.

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  #8 (permalink)
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Well. I'm a profitable scalper. If you like proof, we can do some live streaming leaded by Big Mike

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  #9 (permalink)
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No thanks.

The other two firms are forex CFD and aren't regulated.

What proof do you have that AMP has done something wrong?

I think you are just a problem customer that got fired, they aren't trading against you.
Ates View Post
Well. I'm a profitable scalper. If you like proof, we can do some live streaming leaded by Big Mike

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  #10 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
No thanks.

The other two firms are forex CFD and aren't regulated.

What proof do you have that AMP has done something wrong?

I think you are just a problem customer that got fired, they aren't trading against you.

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Am I a problem customer? Well ok!

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Compared to their average customer, I would imagine their opinion would be yes.

I have been known to be a problem customer too, don't take it too personally. I think it just tells you it's a bad fit and go elsewhere.

Ates View Post
Am I a problem customer? Well ok!

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  #12 (permalink)
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Ates View Post
As soon as i execute a trade, 90% time, market went against me.

maybe it's a toxic fill. Or maybe you were on the wrong side of the trade!

 
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  #13 (permalink)
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I assume that you don't trade futures. In forex markets everything is possible - stop with it. In non-thin futures markets nobody try to move the market against a single person/entry/stop.

 
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Koepisch View Post
I assume that you don't trade futures. In forex markets everything is possible - stop with it. In non-thin futures markets nobody try to move the market against a single person/entry/stop.

I only trade ES & NQ futures. Sometimes GC.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Quoting 
I am also not allowing anyone ... to trade with me or against me.

I came up with a long winded post about the differences between CFDs and Futures and how broker-side stop hunting only makes sense for CFDs since the broker is your counterparty. Then I reread your post and realized that you don't want to trade, so it was appropriate for your brokers to close your accounts.

P.S. The SEC doesn't regulate futures, forex or cryptocurrency.

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I don’t see how any single retail trader is going to have the capital trading futures to be the target of big banks, algos, etc and be counter traded against but what do I know

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  #17 (permalink)
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awesomizer View Post
I don’t see how any single retail trader is going to have the capital trading futures to be the target of big banks, algos, etc and be counter traded against but what do I know

The truth is that it's easier to blame somebody for a failure than to take responsibility.

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Everyone,

I'm closing this thread. It seems to me the original poster was just flat out wrong and confused between CFD forex and futures.

I also changed the title from "The truth about..." to "Futures vs CFD...".

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