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Is Amp at risk of going under?


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Is Amp at risk of going under?

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  #1 (permalink)
Fremont
 
 
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I read that Amp started closing big trader accounts because they didn't have enough money to let them trade. They blamed risk department but the guy made it very clear he was doing nothing wrong, and trading from his retirement account for more than 5 years with amp. They refused to speak with him or give him any explanation and it all seems really concerning.

I was going to open a new account with them this month but when I read this it really comes me because some are saying don't give amp your money, you'd be crazy to give them money and all this and I was going to transfer my td Ameritrade account to them with well over 300k because it's my retirement! Now I think I would be foolish to follow through with my plan, but I'm not sure even transferring 30k is safe?

I thought brokers money was guaranteed and didn't know it could be lost? Also the person I read said that amp was one of the worst capitalize brokers and be careful. I know about futures markets but apparently a lot to learn about brokers.

Some advice please? Thank you in advance for giving me direction

Here is the link I read

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  #2 (permalink)
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Let me try that again

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  #3 (permalink)
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It won't let me?

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  #4 (permalink)
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You need five posts before you can share links.

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  #5 (permalink)
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Iím pretty sure I know of the thread youíre talking about.
It is concerning, however none of us will know 100% the truth of the story. That trader could have been engaging in some illicit activity that obviously AMP nor the individual would ever divulge.

I come from the banking world. We would close accounts down (they still do) with ZERO explanation. They don't have to give you any info either. It is a "business" decision. That is all the former client would ever hear.


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jakobe View Post
Iím pretty sure I know of the thread youíre talking about.
It is concerning, however none of us will know 100% the truth of the story. That trader could have been engaging in some illicit activity that obviously AMP nor the individual would ever divulge.

I come from the banking world. We would close accounts down (they still do) with ZERO explanation. They don't have to give you any info either. It is a "business" decision. That is all the former client would ever hear.


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Can you link it?

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  #7 (permalink)
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SosTrader View Post
I read that Amp started closing big trader accounts because they didn't have enough money to let them trade. They blamed risk department but the guy made it very clear he was doing nothing wrong, and trading from his retirement account for more than 5 years with amp. They refused to speak with him or give him any explanation and it all seems really concerning.

I was going to open a new account with them this month but when I read this it really comes me because some are saying don't give amp your money, you'd be crazy to give them money and all this and I was going to transfer my td Ameritrade account to them with well over 300k because it's my retirement! Now I think I would be foolish to follow through with my plan, but I'm not sure even transferring 30k is safe?

I thought brokers money was guaranteed and didn't know it could be lost? Also the person I read said that amp was one of the worst capitalize brokers and be careful. I know about futures markets but apparently a lot to learn about brokers.

Some advice please? Thank you in advance for giving me direction

Here is the link I read

You can find the CFTC report here:



It lists the capital requirements and excess net capital for each FCM.

I personally would strongly advise you against AMP. I've read enough horror stories of them on the forum, and I strongly dislike how (in my opinion) they actively mislead customers with regards to their commission structure, by slipping in a "clearing fee" and acting like its normal.

Of course, the fact that they sued the community a few years back (and lost in court) also doesn't help my opinion of them, but regardless a lot of members here do use them.

That said, they cater to new traders with small accounts. With the type of money you are talking about, I would strongly recommend you look at Interactive Brokers (IKBR). I use them personally. They offer a sweep program that automatically sweeps excess funds into an insured account at the end of each day, otherwise you need to understand that there is NO INSURANCE for funds deposited at an FCM.

You have only the trust in the FCM's accounting practices to save you. And don't let them tell you "of course it's safe! Our funds are segregated!". That will NOT save you, just look no further than the last several industry blow-ups where customers lost everything (everyone remember PFG Best).

Firms HAVE, WILL, and DO hide things from their accountants and the CFTC. The only smart thing to do is to accept this as fact, and try to protect yourself knowing ahead of time that such things exist.

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  #8 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Can you link it?

Mike

Here is the thread I believe OP was referring to.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/amp-how-could-you.345103/

EDIT: I'm not allowed to post a link?
I have PM'd you it.

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jakobe View Post
Here is the thread I believe OP was referring to.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/amp-how-could-you.345103/

EDIT: I'm not allowed to post a link?
I have PM'd you it.

Try again, I am having a lot of problems this morning with our link system.

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  #10 (permalink)
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@Big Mike

testing 1 . 2 . 3 ...

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/amp-how-could-you.345103/

EDIT: Nothing.
Here is it with spaces to beat out the filter in case anyone wants to view it.

h ttp s:// ww w. el itetrader.com/et/threads/amp-how-could-you.345103/

EDIT 2: There it is. Link issue resolved.

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Thanks @jakobe, I am solve a database table issue. Your URL is saved, just give me a few minutes to resolve this and it will start showing up.

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Big Mike View Post
You can find the CFTC report here:



It lists the capital requirements and excess net capital for each FCM.
...
Mike

Mike, I followed this link to the new page, but that post showed no link to the cftc page, just a blank line. But when I did a Quote of your post there, the link did show in the Edit window: https://www.cftc.gov/MarketReports/financialfcmdata/index.htm . (I just pasted in here in this post, and I notice it isn't showing on Preview, but the Edit window does have it. Open a Quote and you will see it is there, but shows blank here.)

I probably should make a post in the changelog about this, but since this current I'll make it here unless you would prefer to have it there as well.

Bob.

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bobwest View Post
Mike, I followed this link to the new page, but that post showed no link to the cftc page, just a blank line. But when I did a Quote of your post there, the link did show in the Edit window: https://www.cftc.gov/MarketReports/financialfcmdata/index.htm . (I just pasted in here in this post, and I notice it isn't showing on Preview, but the Edit window does have it. Open a Quote and you will see it is there, but shows blank here.)

I probably should make a post in the changelog about this, but since this current I'll make it here unless you would prefer to have it there as well.

Bob.

It's solved already The database table was rebuilding.

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jakobe View Post
Here is the thread I believe OP was referring to.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/amp-how-could-you.345103/

EDIT: I'm not allowed to post a link?
I have PM'd you it.

Here is what that member posted on ET:


J.P.
I have been an AMP customer for four profitable years. I thought I was good with them. In fact, I thought I was very good with them. I have two accounts, one Roth IRA and one cash, totaling over $3,000,000. I trade hundreds of ES and NQ round-turn day trades a day and keep that amount of cash in my accounts so that I never come close to exceeding margin requirements. Out of nowhere I received an email from Compliance that both accounts were closed. There was no further explanation and it said, "We hope you understand that we do not comment on our decision." Regardless, I called AMP to try to reconcile this obvious misunderstanding. They said I should send an email, which I did. The reply only stated that my accounts were out of their "acceptable risk profile." With no clue as to what, exactly, I did. I wrote back:

"If I am out of your firmís acceptable risk profile, just tell me what you want and let me fix it. I donít have to trade the way I trade if it is somehow conflicting with your firmís systems.

I thought I had a stellar risk profile but I am more than willing to modify my trading or otherwise do what it takes to achieve an acceptable risk profile. Just let me know."

There was no reply.

I'm shocked as AMP and I were having no issues at all. And, most importantly, they won't comment on their decision! AMP, how could you? Not even a hint? I was a no-problem client with no complaints and certainly no hand-holding was needed. Was I trading too much? Was I not trading enough? Were my accounts too large? Were my accounts too small? What else is there? I cannot imagine what the issue might be. But if there is one, why not just tell me as there is likely some mistake and we'll work it out?

If anyone has any insight as to what might be going on here, please let me know. Given my accounts' size, trading activity and unproblematic longevity with AMP, it's just wrong for AMP to abruptly close these accounts without some sort of notice or explanation.

Here's my best guess as to what happened:

Limit orders were on the exchange and were being filled. Take-profit limit orders were also on the exchange and were not (yet) filled. I also had both buy and sell flattening orders that were not at the exchange but were lined up on the platform to be sent in case any of my take-profit orders were not filled within a short period of time (less than five minutes, 10 at the most). These platform orders were filled out and ready to go so that I could send them and be flat very quickly, regardless of the number and type of fills, in order for me to rapidly flatten my positions. If my take-profit exchange orders were filled these platform orders would not be sent. If any exchange take-profit orders were not filled select platform orders would quickly be sent to flatten my positions. That's it.

Just prior to receiving the email that my accounts were closed I had sent a note to AMP that I would sometimes get a platform error message that a pending platform order, that was not sent, was exceeding trading limits, and I asked that any limits be raised as these orders were lined up to be offsetting and would never be at the exchange together and I would not even be close to exceeding any margin requirement at any time. (Regardless, if AMP's systems could not handle this all they had to do is let me know; I don't have to do it this way and I am definitely willing to modify this approach if I am somehow overwhelming AMP's systems. I have never had more than 400 open ES and NQ positions combined, very short-term day trades, in either account at any time and I have always had more than enough free cash in those accounts to cover this margin.)

Apparently, this platform adds up any and all pending untransmitted orders whether they are sent or not, along with all open positions and also any orders that are resting at the exchange against any broker-set limits. These platform orders were just lined up as a safety precaution so that I could selectively and rapidly send them to flatten my positions under various fill scenarios.

AMP did not reply and closed my accounts. But again, I'm just guessing that this was the reason these accounts were closed.

Understand this: During the entire four years that I have been with AMP, at no time and in no way was I EVER close to exceeding any margin requirement on any filled positions. Not even for a moment. Not once; not ever. Nor would I ever. But even if I did, you would think they could, and should, just flatten all positions at the market and then close my accounts for cause. Simple as that.

But I guess I need to find another broker. So, barring a last-minute reconsideration from AMP, if there is any broker out there that can accommodate a trader that always follows any and all rules and policies, let me know as I had not even thought about switching brokers.

This is just wrong. What could I have done differently here? How could AMP expect me to follow some secret trading policy that they refuse to reveal? Do I deserve better than this from AMP? Should reconsideration be granted by AMP?

Advice is appreciated.

Later in the thread, AMP confirmed what he is saying is true (in that his account was closed) and said they wouldn't talk about why.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Here is what that member posted on ET:



Later in the thread, AMP confirmed what he is saying is true (in that his account was closed) and said they wouldn't talk about why.

Mike

Things were heating up over there. AMP replied with a bunch of lip service, promoting themselves and bashing this forum (see below). Others started asking more questions specifically pertaining to how AMP is handling their customers who were caught in the May Crude Oil contract with negative pricing. The forum founder stepped in, deleted a bunch of comments and closed down the thread due to "legal matters"

AMP GLOBAL:

Ok, guys....this is really getting out of scope. AMP has always been extremely risk management focused.
This customer's account was not closed due to the account balance. It was closed for compliance reasons.
We did have 8 customers caught in the May Crude - Negative pricing situation. This did NOT affect our operations or cause us any liquidity issues.
We actually took the time to figure out updated risk management for this new negative pricing reality (to try to help our customer NOT get into this situation again).
https://news.ampfutures.com/temporary-margins-increase-energies-complex-april-2020

We are seeing more "fake news" campaign started on another forum by its hostile owner. He is trying to start another defamation campaign in order to please his sponsors - who are AMP competitors or generate any activity in his dead forum or it is just personal (all is our opinion).

Also "fake news" that we are not accepting big accounts. We are NOT closing accounts due to their size.

As previously stated, we have no account maximum and as low as $100 account minimum. We support all our customers like professionals - both BIG and SMALL.

We have been here for over 12+ years providing direct support and clear, accurate answers to ET users. So again, continue to ask us anything...(except about internal compliance procedures)

We are continuing to grow and expand our services for our customers. We are in the final stages of releasing very BIG solution.

Please beware of "fake news" - just ask us!

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futures trader View Post
Things were heating up over there. AMP replied with a bunch of lip service, promoting themselves and bashing this forum (see below). Others started asking more questions specifically pertaining to how AMP is handling their customers who were caught in the May Crude Oil contract with negative pricing. The forum founder stepped in, deleted a bunch of comments and closed down the thread due to "legal matters"

AMP GLOBAL:

Ok, guys....this is really getting out of scope. AMP has always been extremely risk management focused.
This customer's account was not closed due to the account balance. It was closed for compliance reasons.
We did have 8 customers caught in the May Crude - Negative pricing situation. This did NOT affect our operations or cause us any liquidity issues.
We actually took the time to figure out updated risk management for this new negative pricing reality (to try to help our customer NOT get into this situation again).
https://news.ampfutures.com/temporary-margins-increase-energies-complex-april-2020

We are seeing more "fake news" campaign started on another forum by its hostile owner. He is trying to start another defamation campaign in order to please his sponsors - who are AMP competitors or generate any activity in his dead forum or it is just personal (all is our opinion).

Also "fake news" that we are not accepting big accounts. We are NOT closing accounts due to their size.

As previously stated, we have no account maximum and as low as $100 account minimum. We support all our customers like professionals - both BIG and SMALL.

We have been here for over 12+ years providing direct support and clear, accurate answers to ET users. So again, continue to ask us anything...(except about internal compliance procedures)

We are continuing to grow and expand our services for our customers. We are in the final stages of releasing very BIG solution.

Please beware of "fake news" - just ask us!

Let's examine the facts, and see if AMP can follow along while we play tag across forums...

1. It's not "fake news" just because you don't like it. I realize that politics of late has coined the phrase, but it's just a cop out from anyone who doesn't like what you are telling them in order to reinforce their beliefs. Educate yourself, and start by never repeating the phrase "fake news" to anyone as a defense, but instead actually making useful defensible arguments.

2. It was not started by me. I am only guessing he is referring to the lawsuit, and I would like to remind him of the FACTS. Check here:



That thread contains detailed factual information. Factual as in proven by court records and transcripts. Not just cop out BS like "fake news".

The FACT is, AMP sued our community because I refused to remove content that put them in a negative light (the content was proven genuine). Period. That's the difference between me and other forums like the one he is posting on. Around $25,000 was spent defending that lawsuit, and guess what - AMP lost. Go read the thread.

3. Dead forum? In fact, last month we were less than 1% away from our highest new member numbers EVER in the history of our site (10+ years). Our monthly impressions are also growing steadily YoY, and have exploded higher recently. The FACTS don't support his claim.

4. Generated content to please our sponsors? That's just idiotic. In the same post he is referring to, I literally recommended IBKR which is not a site sponsor and in fact a competitor to our sponsors.

Why am I spending time responding? Because I believe it is not enough to just allow people like Dan Culp from AMP Global to claim "fake news" when they don't like something, and leave it at that without checking them.

We (all of us) must take time to stand up/speak up and educate these people. Teach them how to better arm themselves with facts from multiple reliable sources if they are just repeating something without having a defensible and fact based argument. Worse yet, if they know full well what they are doing is wrong when they say "fake news" just to deflect attention --- then it's even more important that we take the time to correct them. Otherwise, this new normal of crying "fake news" is just going to continue to spiral out of control.

AMP posted that they wouldn't discuss it publicly. But yet the customer asked why the account was closed, and they wouldn't tell him privately either. By phone or email.

Here is the main AMP review thread, getting back on topic for this subject:



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Oh, one more thing to fluff our dead forum with content:



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Oh, would you look at that... right on queue, Baron (owner of Elite Trader) has closed the thread at AMP's request.

(pasted screenshot)


How convenient for AMP, wouldn't you say? AMP by the way is a site sponsor for ET.

If Baron and his site have any integrity, he would link my above reply to Dan in his thread. He would also not close a thread just because it's a negative opinion of a sponsor. And he would cite and post the specific legal notice he received (yeah right -- there is no such thing) explaining why he is forced to close the thread for "legal matters".

Attaching a PDF record of that thread, just in case it somehow were to get deleted or in case AMP should do some "legal matters" against us like they did for ET apparently.

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Oh, would you look at that... right on queue, Baron (owner of Elite Trader) has closed the thread at AMP's request.

(pasted screenshot)


How convenient for AMP, wouldn't you say? AMP by the way is a site sponsor for ET.

If Baron and his site have any integrity, he would link my above reply to Dan in his thread. He would also not close a thread just because it's a negative opinion of a sponsor. And he would cite and post the specific legal notice he received (yeah right -- there is no such thing) explaining why he is forced to close the thread for "legal matters".

Attaching a PDF record of that thread, just in case it somehow were to get deleted or in case AMP should do some "legal matters" against us like they did for ET apparently.

Mike

Yes, and let it be known your pdf is missing the last segment of the conversation because Baron deleted a bunch of posts before he closed it.

Dan most likely reported the thread when a post asked AMP (Dan) how they were handling the 8 customers that were affected by negative pricing in the May Crude Oil contract.

What I have heard is Dan is harassing customers and threatening formal collection proceedings, despite the fact that the trading platforms AMP offered to customers (and supported) failed at $0.00, leaving customers unable to execute orders with their oil contracts. AMP was not prepared with proper risk management in place even though they were forewarned by CME advisories.

Would you want to put your money in the hands of someone like this?

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  #20 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Here is what that member posted on ET:



Later in the thread, AMP confirmed what he is saying is true (in that his account was closed) and said they wouldn't talk about why.

Mike

Was AMP taking the other side of his trades and losing big?

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  #21 (permalink)
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Was AMP taking the other side of his trades and losing big?

Or perhaps this customer was a cash cow for AMP with commissions, yet was rendering AMP non compliant with regulation.

This one customer flipping 400 contracts across 2 accounts could take the entire customer base under water easily with AMP not having the kind of cash necessary to back up margin requirements or a blow out of sorts.

AMP may have let it go on for years (customer states 4 years) knowingly, raking in the commissions but they appear to suddenly have had a change of heart. Why the sudden action with no explanation offered to the customer one must ask? Maybe the CFTC is poking around and an explanation would reveal their lack of innocence?

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  #22 (permalink)
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With leaving all the drama out of it. Iím going to ask a simple question that only requires a simple answer. Is your money safe there? Or is it better to close your account and go somewhere else?


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  #23 (permalink)
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With leaving all the drama out of it. Iím going to ask a simple question that only requires a simple answer. Is your money safe there? Or is it better to close your account and go somewhere else?
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For me the guy in the Elitetrader's thread just got too big with his business. What I understand his total concurrent open positions on ES & NQ were eye popping 800 contracts on only $3 mil account so this started to be just too much risk for the house.

I see your money is more safe when this kind of risky business is not allowed. So this is a good thing.

But we can ask why did't they (AMP) give any instructions or warnings about the situation. They just closed the account and then silence. This is what I don't understand. It's just silly and bad for any business in any industry if you don't communicate with your customers. So in this they failed badly and I hope they will do some changes in their future policies how to manage this kind of situations.

Anyway I still like AMP.

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  #24 (permalink)
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With leaving all the drama out of it. Iím going to ask a simple question that only requires a simple answer. Is your money safe there? Or is it better to close your account and go somewhere else?


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I think you have to ask yourself that question and only you can answer it. Ask yourself in the light of all that has been revealed about Dan Culp, the principal of AMP, it is his LLC and he calls the shots. When the heat turns up or things go sideways, are you confident this gentleman is going to do what is best for you and the customers of AMP?

The customer who was forced out stated he had 3 million at AMP. AMP has 63 million in customer segregated accounts with 4 million in excess net capital. Was his 3 million safe? I think you'll find that most folks here would say AMP did him a favor by closing hos accounts.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Something just seems off to me. Why would someone keep "3mill" at a discount broker? Something about the story doesn't add up? With that kind of capitalization, it doesn't make sense to me. Plus, if your account had that much liquidity I highly doubt that anyone would be posting on forums to air their gripes about a broker.
If my understanding is correct about the rules, the CFTC does daily audits on seg accts to insure all is safe and not being commingled and that bank statements are no sufficient.

I'm not picking sides, just logically the story doesn't seem to be real to me. But I do agree that it's for the better for all customers that risky business is not condoned and that they closed the account (for whatever reason).

Regarding the debacle with crude that happened recently and the brokers going after customers. IMHO they should, they are not credit agents. People who were foolish enough to be trading an expiring contract on the last day got what they deserved. Unless, your taking delivery you don't belong trading an expiring contract on the last day. Whether or not the broker allows it, is not the point. Trading is a business and these were bad business decisions that had terrible consequences, but they were decisions made nonetheless. No one forced anyone to push a button, they did it all to themselves. People saw a ridiculously low price and thought they were smarter then the market. A broker has every right to go after customers in deficit. Whether or not system failures had a part is up for debate, but in the end people made bad business decisions. You can't blame a system failure for that.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Scalpguy View Post
For me the guy in the Elitetrader's thread just got too big with his business. What I understand his total concurrent open positions on ES & NQ where eye popping 800 contracts on only $3 mil account so this started to be just too much risk for the house.

I see your money is more safe when this kind of risky business is not allowed. So this is a good thing.

But we can ask why did't they (AMP) give any instructions or warnings about the situation. They just closed the account and then silence. This is what I don't understand. It's just silly and bad for any business in any industry if you don't communicate with your customers. So in this they failed badly and I hope they will do some changes in their future policies how to manage this kind of situations.

Anyway I still like AMP.

What we know, AMP stated it was due to compliance. So what made AMP decide to be compliant this past week, yet let the accounts be non compliant for 4 years? What were they complicit with for all that time and why the sudden change of heart? Would you still feel the same way about AMP if it was revealed that they were willfully non compliant?

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  #27 (permalink)
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Something just seems off to me. Why would someone keep "3mill" at a discount broker? Something about the story doesn't add up? With that kind of capitalization, it doesn't make sense to me. Plus, if your account had that much liquidity I highly doubt that anyone would be posting on forums to air their gripes about a broker.
If my understanding is correct about the rules, the CFTC does daily audits on seg accts to insure all is safe and not being commingled and that bank statements are no sufficient.

I'm not picking sides, just logically the story doesn't seem to be real to me. But I do agree that it's for the better for all customers that risky business is not condoned and that they closed the account (for whatever reason).

Regarding the debacle with crude that happened recently and the brokers going after customers. IMHO they should, they are not credit agents. People who were foolish enough to be trading an expiring contract on the last day got what they deserved. Unless, your taking delivery you don't belong trading an expiring contract on the last day. Whether or not the broker allows it, is not the point. Trading is a business and these were bad business decisions that had terrible consequences, but they were decisions made nonetheless. No one forced anyone to push a button, they did it all to themselves. People saw a ridiculously low price and thought they were smarter then the market. A broker has every right to go after customers in deficit. Whether or not system failures had a part is up for debate, but in the end people made bad business decisions. You can't blame a system failure for that.

Believe what you want about the 3 mil story, but what motive would exist to fabricate this story and go public with it? Why would AMP engage in the conversation in a public forum validating it's accuracy if it were false?

Regarding the oil incident. It goes beyond a technical failure, though that was certainly a part of it. FCM's were forewarned by CME advisories to have all technologies tested and proven capable of handling negative pricing. If you are an FCM and failed to do so, you don't get a free pass.

Have you read the CFTC advisory that was released on 5/13/20 outlining all the points where FCM's failed on 4/20/20 (see attached)? There are very specific risk management regulations that FCM's must follow. Rather than restating it all here, have a read. Why do you think Interactive Brokers took responsibility for 110 million in losses? Because they are kind hearted? Or, did they realize they failed to uphold their obligations and decided it would be better to make it right with customers than await the outcome of a CFTC investigation?

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: pdf 20-17_CFTC_advisory 5-13-20.pdf (121.5 KB, 18 views)
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  #28 (permalink)
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futures trader View Post
What we know, AMP stated it was due to compliance. So what made AMP decide to be compliant this past week, yet let the accounts be non compliant for 4 years? What were they complicit with for all that time and why the sudden change of heart? Would you still feel the same way about AMP if it was revealed that they were willfully non compliant?

I think the change in policy is a result of the market events happened lately. It's normal to adapt. But in this case it's a question of how do you communicate.

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  #29 (permalink)
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futures trader View Post
What we know, AMP stated it was due to compliance. So what made AMP decide to be compliant this past week, yet let the accounts be non compliant for 4 years? What were they complicit with for all that time and why the sudden change of heart? Would you still feel the same way about AMP if it was revealed that they were willfully non compliant?

The trader might have been an AMP client for 4 years, but that does not mean he was holding $3m with AMP and trading the way he was at termination of account for the whole 4 years.

For instance if you look at AMP's filings with CFTC they had a huge jump in Customer Segregated Funds from approx $57m in February to approx $63m in March. So it may be this trader loaded the bulk of his $3m into his account post 28 February and started trading in a different & particular way (eg spoofing/wash trades , whatever - we don't know) that has come to the attention of AMP Compliance and/or CFTC during March/April.

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  #30 (permalink)
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Outersphere View Post
With leaving all the drama out of it. Iím going to ask a simple question that only requires a simple answer. Is your money safe there? Or is it better to close your account and go somewhere else?


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

One thing I especially like about AMP (aside from the obvious benefits) is that they only hold Customer Funds with banks and some government securities. This is unlike some other brokers (including most of the ones who failed) who actually used Customer Funds to invest/take positions with the profit accruing to the broker.

In other words AMP only makes money from the commission earned on trades you place. And I can be comfortable that my funds are sitting in a customer segregated account with a bank so my only real risk to my account (aside from my own trading) is if the bank fails or AMP's risk management system is so poor that they end up with a huge exposure to customers in deficit that can't be recovered fully for some reason (as the Customer Segregated account at the bank is just a pooled account of all AMP's customers account balances in one bank account).

Reference: https://www.ampfutures.com/cftc-rule-1-55-reporting/ (click on Disclosure Document link)

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  #31 (permalink)
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....... despite the fact that the trading platforms AMP offered to customers (and supported) failed at $0.00, leaving customers unable to execute orders with their oil contracts. AMP was not prepared with proper risk management in place even though they were forewarned by CME advisories.
......

Your source for the comment about the trading platforms AMP offered that failed to handle negative oil prices resulting in the 8 'problem' customer accounts is?

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  #32 (permalink)
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steve2222 View Post
Th trader might have been an AMP client for 4 years, but that does not mean he was holding $3m with AMP and trading the way he was at termination of account for the whole 4 years.

For instance if you look at AMP's filings with CFTC they had a huge jump in Customer Segregated Funds from approx $57m in February to approx $63m in March. So it may be this trader loaded the bulk of his $3m into his account post 28 February and started trading in a different & particular way (Spoofing/wash trades , whatever) that has come to the attention of AMP Compliance and/or CFTC during March/April.

Very well possible. The customer did not specify for how long he was trading with this methodology, but we do know AMP stated it was a compliance related matter. Interesting story nonetheless and one that has piqued my interest. It's unfortunate the thread got shut down.

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  #33 (permalink)
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steve2222 View Post
Your source for the comment about the trading platforms AMP offered that failed to handle negative oil prices resulting in the 8 'problem' customer accounts is?

I have been following the 4/20 event closely and have been in direct contact with customers from Interactive Brokers, TOS, and AMP who were adversely affected by these FCM's failures. I have also communicated with a number of the various platform developers that AMP is in partnership with. I have seen the evidence, and will have to leave it at that.

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  #34 (permalink)
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I have been following the 4/20 event closely and have been in direct contact with customers from Interactive Brokers, TOS, and AMP who were adversely affected by these FCM's failures. I have also communicated with a number of the various platform developers that AMP is in partnership with. I have seen the evidence, and will have to leave it at that.

Okay. Sounds like you are actually in the broker industry rather than a just trader like me? So understandable you would have access to knowledge of various s/w that did not handle negative prices.

I do know that Sierra Chart was fine and I suspect a big chunk of AMP's clients use that s/w based on comments on various forums and the SC support forum.

Thanks for your replies.

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  #35 (permalink)
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Things were heating up over there. AMP replied with a bunch of lip service, promoting themselves and bashing this forum (see below). Others started asking more questions specifically pertaining to how AMP is handling their customers who were caught in the May Crude Oil contract with negative pricing. The forum founder stepped in, deleted a bunch of comments and closed down the thread due to "legal matters"

AMP GLOBAL:

Ok, guys....this is really getting out of scope. AMP has always been extremely risk management focused.
This customer's account was not closed due to the account balance. It was closed for compliance reasons.
We did have 8 customers caught in the May Crude - Negative pricing situation. This did NOT affect our operations or cause us any liquidity issues.
We actually took the time to figure out updated risk management for this new negative pricing reality (to try to help our customer NOT get into this situation again).
https://news.ampfutures.com/temporary-margins-increase-energies-complex-april-2020

We are seeing more "fake news" campaign started on another forum by its hostile owner. He is trying to start another defamation campaign in order to please his sponsors - who are AMP competitors or generate any activity in his dead forum or it is just personal (all is our opinion).

Also "fake news" that we are not accepting big accounts. We are NOT closing accounts due to their size.

As previously stated, we have no account maximum and as low as $100 account minimum. We support all our customers like professionals - both BIG and SMALL.

We have been here for over 12+ years providing direct support and clear, accurate answers to ET users. So again, continue to ask us anything...(except about internal compliance procedures)

We are continuing to grow and expand our services for our customers. We are in the final stages of releasing very BIG solution.

Please beware of "fake news" - just ask us!

Just curious, why you so worked up over this? Were you one of the 8 customers long May Crude on expiration day ?

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  #36 (permalink)
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I read that Amp started closing big trader accounts because they didn't have enough money to let them trade. They blamed risk department but the guy made it very clear he was doing nothing wrong, and trading from his retirement account for more than 5 years with amp. They refused to speak with him or give him any explanation and it all seems really concerning.

I was going to open a new account with them this month but when I read this it really comes me because some are saying don't give amp your money, you'd be crazy to give them money and all this and I was going to transfer my td Ameritrade account to them with well over 300k because it's my retirement! Now I think I would be foolish to follow through with my plan, but I'm not sure even transferring 30k is safe?

I thought brokers money was guaranteed and didn't know it could be lost? Also the person I read said that amp was one of the worst capitalize brokers and be careful. I know about futures markets but apparently a lot to learn about brokers.

Some advice please? Thank you in advance for giving me direction

Here is the link I read

I think there's 2 sides to every story. Some guy with a massive account got closed 'cause he was too big? I gotta think there's more to it than that.

I know the CEO at Amp and I know he's had to pay for traders and others mistakes. I know of the specific cases and to be honest, I was blow away that he had to shell out cash for stuff that was clearly beyond AMPs control. The potential downside for an FCM is incredible - you are liable for all your IBs - other companies that are making their own decisions and putting out their own message. IBs on the other hand are liable for much less.

I do know of 2 people that came to me complaining about AMP when AMP closed them down. They got the same message - "risk said no". What you have to understand is that this is a very complex industry with a lot of rules and regulations and risk for the FXM.

Also, the upside in getting into a pi$$ing match with a customer about the reasons you don't want to keep them on are zero. Not that I know anything about this specific case but obviously there was an issue, AMP lost a big customer and they obviously had their reasons. What I can tell you though - I never heard an FCM turning someone away 'cause they were too big. I think that's a stretch.

I like AMP - they are bigger than most IBs, the management do care & the CEO is a man of his word. None of this "it's just business" nonsense either.

AMP are good in my opinion and I don't get a referral fee.

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  #37 (permalink)
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Always are 2 sides of a story.I don't have anything against Amp or the client or anybody .

But , it's obviously we don't know some pieces of this story :
-If i have 3 mill for day trading i'll make a call to my broker in second one when i see my account closed (just because the planes don't fly right now) not talk with him thru a forum
-And if i have 3 mill for day trading i don't give any money to any broker ( or maximum 10% ) , i'll put my money in bank or few banks and i work with my broker thru them
-When you have this amount of money for day trading ( looks like he made around 1000 or more RT/day ) is a little queue of brokers at your door at it's not hard to negotiate with .

And if i worked for Amp i try a lot of things to keep such a client or at least to "pass or sell" this client to a friend ( except a really dangerous or money laundering situation) so , something really strange happened .
And about risk in a brokerage firm ... ha , give my a brake ( except few of course ).

So , there are many things we don't know ... who knows maybe it's just a PR stunt from somebody

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  #38 (permalink)
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Btw , i don't respond to anyone particularly with my post , it's was just my 2c about that intrigante situation

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