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Data feeds and execution - CQG, Rithmic, Tradovate (and more?)


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Data feeds and execution - CQG, Rithmic, Tradovate (and more?)

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  #1 (permalink)
Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate, SierraChart
Broker: Tradovate, AMP(CQG)
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Hello, this is my first post here (excluding intro) so hopefully I will not mess up too badly and break too many rules
I have searched the forums and read the threads on the topic I am going to ask about but the info I found was not sufficient for me to get a clear understanding, so here it goes:

I am basically trying to determine the best data feed to use when I go back to trading live and I am trying to get my head around the different facets I need to consider to select the best solution for me. To give context I am focused on scalping and have no automation/algo involved (except an automated stop loss and take profit order entered by my trading platform upon execution). I use Jigsaw Daytradr.

So far I am considering the following 3 data feed providers (CQG, Rithmic, Tradovate) and this is what I found out about them so far:

CQG: solid all-round solution with cheap round-turn fees of $0.20, shows 10 price levels and 1 month of historic tick data, can suffer lags/freezes when market spikes occur, like after a Trump tweet or news event
Rithmic: highly reliable but "expensive" solution at $0.50 round-turn fees, shows entire order book (20+ price levels) but only 1 day of historic tick data, performs great even under high data flows due to news events.
Tradovate: cheapest solution if monthly $199 flat fee adopted (only exchange, clearing and routing fees owed), shows 10 price levels and 2 weeks of historic tick data (as far as I can tell), reliability in high data flows due to news events is unknown

So, from a price point of view Tradovate seems to be the best, however I do not know how they hold up as far as reliability goes.
I know there are other providers like TT, CTS, IQ but they all seemed more expensive without offering any advantage from what I could tell.

Also, I am unclear how execution is affected by the choice of data feed provider?

Any help sorting this out (and correcting any mistakes I made above) would be greatly appreciated.

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  #3 (permalink)
Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
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Broker: Tradovate, AMP(CQG)
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I just realised this might be more appropriate in the Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds section? (which I just discovered)

If so please let me know how to move this across and I will do so.

Cheers

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  #4 (permalink)
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If scalping I would go for the lowest fees.

Not sure from your post whether you have tried the Tradovate 14 day demo. That would be long enough to see whether any issues appear with data lags on news events.
They have a browser version or a desktop version of the platform, to use it with daytradr you will need to use the desktop version. The Tradovate replay is also very good, exactly replicating the live data so you will be able to practice your scalping.

If happy I would then sign up with them and try it for a few days at least before purchasing a monthly membership package just to be sure. Be aware that the $199/month membership is if you sign up for a year of commission free payments. If paying month by month it is $349/month ( https://www.tradovate.com/pricing/ )
The worst that can happen is that you think everything will be fine, then for whatever reason you aren't happy and decide to stop trading live. And so need to open another account somewhere else.

Not an exact answer to your question I know, but just my thoughts.

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  #5 (permalink)
Europe
 
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Tradovate uses CQG

CQG was the best data-source years ago, but this continuum is just middle-class (IMHO)

for me is Rithmic the best data-source you can get, it is very fast and accurate and it doesn't show 20 price-levels (as you posted), it shows the entire orderbook

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  #6 (permalink)
Australia
 
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matthew28 View Post
If scalping I would go for the lowest fees.

Not sure from your post whether you have tried the Tradovate 14 day demo. That would be long enough to see whether any issues appear with data lags on news events.

Cheers.

I have traded both CQG live and Tradovate demo (I am actually using it right now for testing my revised strategy) and have not noticed any substantial difference on a day to day basis. Since we have not had any major news events this month (at least not while I was trading) I have not been able to test the Tradovate platform "unders stress" though.

In any case, I fully agree lowest fees is important when scalping which is why I was looking into Tradovate, but i got told that Rithmic is the way to go so I was trying to figure out what the difference between these providers really is (or if there is in fact any difference for human/non-algo traders).

Is there somewhere I can get a Rithmic trial?

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  #7 (permalink)
Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
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tr8er View Post
Tradovate uses CQG

CQG was the best data-source years ago, but this continuum is just middle-class (IMHO)

for me is Rithmic the best data-source you can get, it is very fast and accurate and it doesn't show 20 price-levels (as you posted), it shows the entire orderbook

Thanks for the info, did not know Tradovate used CQG. It would explain why I could not see any discernible difference when using one or the other.

As for Rithmic, I corrected the original post to reflect the correct price levels (thanks), but I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by fast and accurate and how it would impact my decision making and/or trade execution?

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  #8 (permalink)
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ales19 View Post
I just realised this might be more appropriate in the Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds section? (which I just discovered)

If so please let me know how to move this across and I will do so.

Cheers

The original location, emicro and emini futures trading, was reasonable, but I have moved it to Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds, which is more specific.

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  #9 (permalink)
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ales19 View Post
Is there somewhere I can get a Rithmic trial?

https://www.rithmic.com/demo.html

Then enter your Rithmic login details in to the Jigsaw daytradr Connection Manager and you will have Jigsaw connected to the Rithmic feed. Make sure in the Connection Manager that you then uncheck the box for the CQG/Tradovate feed to connect automatically on startup or you will be connected to both feeds. I think the daytradr tries to acquire platform data in the order of the feeds as listed so it could be using the CQG data rather than the Rithmic if you still have that one connected too.

Personally if scalping I wouldn't worry about having more than ten levels of depth on the DOM. It is though very good if using a heatmap like BookMap or the Jigsaw version especially on thinner instruments that can swing around a bit and where you want to see liquidity levels a lot further out, then I would go with Rithmic.

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  #10 (permalink)
Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
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Broker: Tradovate, AMP(CQG)
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Posts: 29 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 6 given, 24 received




Cheers, I will sign up and give it a go to see if I can notice any difference and write any feedback in the thread.

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  #11 (permalink)
Los Angeles, CA
 
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ales19 View Post
Hello, this is my first post here (excluding intro) so hopefully I will not mess up too badly and break too many rules
I have searched the forums and read the threads on the topic I am going to ask about but the info I found was not sufficient for me to get a clear understanding, so here it goes:

I am basically trying to determine the best data feed to use when I go back to trading live and I am trying to get my head around the different facets I need to consider to select the best solution for me. To give context I am focused on scalping and have no automation/algo involved (except an automated stop loss and take profit order entered by my trading platform upon execution). I use Jigsaw Daytradr.

So far I am considering the following 3 data feed providers (CQG, Rithmic, Tradovate) and this is what I found out about them so far:

CQG: solid all-round solution with cheap round-turn fees of $0.20, shows 10 price levels and 1 month of historic tick data, can suffer lags/freezes when market spikes occur, like after a Trump tweet or news event
Rithmic: highly reliable but "expensive" solution at $0.50 round-turn fees, shows entire order book (20+ price levels) but only 1 day of historic tick data, performs great even under high data flows due to news events.
Tradovate: cheapest solution if monthly $199 flat fee adopted (only exchange, clearing and routing fees owed), shows 10 price levels and 2 weeks of historic tick data (as far as I can tell), reliability in high data flows due to news events is unknown

So, from a price point of view Tradovate seems to be the best, however I do not know how they hold up as far as reliability goes.
I know there are other providers like TT, CTS, IQ but they all seemed more expensive without offering any advantage from what I could tell.

Also, I am unclear how execution is affected by the choice of data feed provider?

Any help sorting this out (and correcting any mistakes I made above) would be greatly appreciated.



This is a great post. Thank you for such an articulate and well laid out question with good prompts. I look forward to reading the responses.

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  #12 (permalink)
Princeton NJ, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I am not sure why you quote execution costs, but in terms of data-feed, I would go with Rithmic. They are super professional and their feed is super fast and accurate. As far as i know it is the only provider that has the full order book + Market By Order data + tagged iceberg and stop orders.

In terms of oder execution: I think Rithmic is also the winner here in terms of speed and reliability. As I said, they are super professional. Hedge funds use them.

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  #13 (permalink)
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Many traders have preferred Rithmic data but went with CQG for the cost. We are excited to now offer Rithmic at the same transaction cost as CQG.

https://futures.zytrade.com/all-in-pricing/

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  #14 (permalink)
Minoqua Wi USA
 
 
Posts: 59 since Sep 2019
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Someone once told me "don't trip over pennies on your way to making dollars" so I would recommend Rithmic like many here have already for all the same reasons. Quality always costs a little more. I, however, use CQG because I found no reason to switch over. Personally I never had any lagging issues with CQG and I think it's also fast and reliable compared to Rithmic. Tradovate, I'm not so sure about. Tradovate uses CQG as you now know but, I've heard there are additional connection and platform fees on top of their standard commissions plan... I'm just saying.

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