Phillips or Dorman for NinjaTrade Brokerage? What's the Difference? - futures io
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Phillips or Dorman for NinjaTrade Brokerage? What's the Difference?


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Phillips or Dorman for NinjaTrade Brokerage? What's the Difference?

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  #1 (permalink)
 kevinhpchan 
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I'm signing up for NinjaTrader's Brokerage. There are 2 options: What's the difference between signing up for Phillips or Dorman? I also plan to buy the Lifetime License.

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  #2 (permalink)
 iantg 
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The way it was explained to me, Phillips was more the default for the US, and Dorman for International. Technically you can use either one, but Phillips will be quicker to setup if you are in the US.

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  #3 (permalink)
Calming
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Dorman is their recommended choice if you come outside of the States or would like to file taxes elsewhere. I do not know if it means that Dorman has more leniency. Other than that, Phillips and Dorman are two equal choices.

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  #4 (permalink)
 ShatteredX 
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Only big difference I'm aware of is you can only trade XBT (Cboe Bitcoin) with Phillip Capital, can't trade it with Dorman. You CAN trade BTC (CME Bitcoin) with both, though.

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  #5 (permalink)
 TDRscalper 
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kevinhpchan View Post
I'm signing up for NinjaTrader's Brokerage. There are 2 options: What's the difference between signing up for Phillips or Dorman? I also plan to buy the Lifetime License.

They recommend Phillips mostly, and then you need to pay data feeds, like $7 for CME if you want the ES

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  #6 (permalink)
Calming
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TDRscalper View Post
They recommend Phillips mostly, and then you need to pay data feeds, like $7 for CME if you want the ES

Dorman is the same price. Here is everything available at CME for that price,

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/products/

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  #7 (permalink)
 hen322 
San Francisco CA
 
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The main difference for me between Dorman and Phillip is that Phillip charges $4 per check withdrawel, whereas Dorman is free.

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  #8 (permalink)
 asymptote 
Mississauga
 
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Doorman is catered more for International

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  #9 (permalink)
 AlphaSquared 
Indianapolis, Indiana
 
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hen322 View Post
The main difference for me between Dorman and Phillip is that Phillip charges $4 per check withdrawel, whereas Dorman is free.

Egggggsactly. Which is why I used Dorman.

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  #10 (permalink)
 Janb 
Wellington
 
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In regards to which to choose, I was originally given this advice by NT support (thumbs up to NT support)

"There are two clearing firm options: Dorman Trading and Phillip Capital. All rates/commissions/fees are set by us and are the same. Both options are great. You can research each one if you want more information. I usually recommend Phillip Capital for Individual or Joint Accounts because their web portal is easy to use and they have a more streamlined approval process. I recommend Dorman Trading for LLC and IRA accounts because they are easier to work with for those types of accounts"

I'm currently with Dorman. Cheers

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  #11 (permalink)
ycomp
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which one lets you transfer money between trading accounts the fastest? can you do it online with either of them? or do you have to wait for them to be open during US hours and have some support person do it?

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  #12 (permalink)
 DoubleClick 
California
 
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ycomp View Post
which one lets you transfer money between trading accounts the fastest? can you do it online with either of them? or do you have to wait for them to be open during US hours and have some support person do it?

I hate to revive a dormant thread but instead of creating a new one, I was wondering if anyone has answer to the above? I recently opened a NT account and signed up with Dorman only to realize funding is via mailing a check (which seems a bit primitive to me in 2019....) or wire transfer (which can be costly due to fee overtime). Is Phillip the same?

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  #13 (permalink)
 hen322 
San Francisco CA
 
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DoubleClick View Post
I hate to revive a dormant thread but instead of creating a new one, I was wondering if anyone has answer to the above? I recently opened a NT account and signed up with Dorman only to realize funding is via mailing a check (which seems a bit primitive to me in 2019....) or wire transfer (which can be costly due to fee overtime). Is Phillip the same?

Yes, Phillip is the same, but they charge $4 per check withdrawal, as where Dorman is free. Both do not use ACH transfers through NT, even though their direct website offers it.

“Successful people ask better questions, and as a result, they get better answers.” – Tony Robbins
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  #14 (permalink)
ycomp
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ycomp View Post
which one lets you transfer money between trading accounts the fastest? can you do it online with either of them? or do you have to wait for them to be open during US hours and have some support person do it?

my question was about sub accounts with the broker

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  #15 (permalink)
 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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ycomp View Post
which one lets you transfer money between trading accounts the fastest? can you do it online with either of them? or do you have to wait for them to be open during US hours and have some support person do it?

We actually clear through both FCMs (Phillip and Dorman). Both are pretty fast with moving funds between same named accounts and wiring out funds. Phillip Capital actually does allow ACH transfers, Dorman does not. They both have client online portals but those are more for pulling Statements, 1099s, seeing your current positions etc. Please let me know if you have any other questions and I'd be glad to help!

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #16 (permalink)
ycomp
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CannonTrading View Post
We actually clear through both FCMs (Phillip and Dorman). Both are pretty fast with moving funds between same named accounts and wiring out funds. Phillip Capital actually does allow ACH transfers, Dorman does not. They both have client online portals but those are more for pulling Statements, 1099s, seeing your current positions etc. Please let me know if you have any other questions and I'd be glad to help!

more specifically I mean, does this only take place during chicago / new york hours or can this be done in the "middle of the night" ?

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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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ycomp View Post
more specifically I mean, does this only take place during chicago / new york hours or can this be done in the "middle of the night" ?

Unfortunately not. You can request it but it's not going to be done till the next morning. Remember all of this has to be done by the FCM's accounting department and unfortunately accounting is not there usually until 7 AM Chicago / New York time. Sometimes if you call the trade desk they will do it but this really will not be processed till next morning when accounting is in.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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ycomp
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Unfortunately not. You can request it but it's not going to be done till the next morning. Remember all of this has to be done by the FCM's accounting department and unfortunately accounting is not there usually until 7 AM Chicago / New York time. Sometimes if you call the trade desk they will do it but this really will not be processed till next morning when accounting is in.

ok, that's what I was thinking - thanks

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  #19 (permalink)
 Blash 
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DoubleClick View Post
I hate to revive a dormant thread but instead of creating a new one, I was wondering if anyone has answer to the above? I recently opened a NT account and signed up with Dorman only to realize funding is via mailing a check (which seems a bit primitive to me in 2019....) or wire transfer (which can be costly due to fee overtime). Is Phillip the same?

I have an acct with S5T which uses Dorman. I also have a Interactive Brokers acct. I absolutely love IB I can do whatever I want whenever I want.
Also I make a small fortune on the interest IB gives me and their acct security is the best. Without a doubt. Dorman has just a simple password = dark ages.

Once I asked for some money out of Dorman, which I do thru S5T, but Dorman has to actually do it. They took it from the wrong acct. I have an acct and a sub. This to me screams rindy-dink.

I can get at my cash many diff ways with IB and they are all fast. Only bank wire costs.



I recommend IB if this helps. I realize it is not what you are asking about.

Ron

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  #20 (permalink)
ycomp
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even if I don't use it I'm sure it will help someone in the future

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  #21 (permalink)
Kalisto
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For those who trade multiple currencies, heard the FX conversion fees are billed by Dorman $30 but free with Phillips. Is that correct ?

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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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Hello @Kalisto. Here at Cannon we clear through both clearing firms and I asked both treasury departments to elaborate on the FX Conversion fees. Phillip Capital does not have a seperate fee but the exchange rate is marked up. I'm not sure how much, all they provided to me is a link to their fees: https://www.phillipcapital.com/Fees

Dorman did get back to me and they said the fee is worked into the conversion as well. They weren't specific unfortunately all they told me was that the fee is worked into the conversion. I will send you updates when I find out what the specific fee is if the fee is fixed for Dorman. Thanks!


Kalisto View Post
For those who trade multiple currencies, heard the FX conversion fees are billed by Dorman $30 but free with Phillips. Is that correct ?


PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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Kalisto View Post
For those who trade multiple currencies, heard the FX conversion fees are billed by Dorman $30 but free with Phillips. Is that correct ?

Hello @Kalisto. Dorman Treasury did get back to me and they said "Depending on which way the conversion is going either 40 dollars or 40 Euros."

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #24 (permalink)
 hen322 
San Francisco CA
 
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I can't withdraw checks from Dorman during this pandemic, but I can pay $30 to wire. I'm done with NT's introducing brokers, they suck because you'll end up paying some fees for withdrawels. I'm looking into IB right now. Tradovate has ACH transfers but no beneficiary option for Payable on Death to avoid probate. I hope I'll be happiest with IB.


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Both are FCMs, Ninja is the IB in this case I think.

Always worth consideration:

https://www.cftc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/01-%20FCM%20Webpage%20Update%20-%20March%202020.pdf

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 hen322 
San Francisco CA
 
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Jigsaw Trading View Post
Both are FCMs, Ninja is the IB in this case I think.

Always worth consideration:

https://www.cftc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/01-%20FCM%20Webpage%20Update%20-%20March%202020.pdf

Sorry, I meant IBKR. Thanks for the list though

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  #27 (permalink)
LaissezFaire
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Hi all,

Google took me to this thread!

I'm a happy customer using NT8 + Dorman Trading, but, I'm not quite satisfied that the only thing that's available on Dorman's online portal is my daily statement in a PDF format.

Meaning - there's no electronic portal where I can check my account value, current open positions, basic performance statistics, etc.

Is this possible with Phillip Capital?

Someone also said that Phillips have easier to read statements? Would love to see an example of one if someone doesn't mind to post one (just erase your name/account details).

Thanks in advance.

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  #28 (permalink)
patricia
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LaissezFaire View Post
Hi all,

Google took me to this thread!

I'm a happy customer using NT8 + Dorman Trading, but, I'm not quite satisfied that the only thing that's available on Dorman's online portal is my daily statement in a PDF format.

Meaning - there's no electronic portal where I can check my account value, current open positions, basic performance statistics, etc.

Is this possible with Phillip Capital?

Someone also said that Phillips have easier to read statements? Would love to see an example of one if someone doesn't mind to post one (just erase your name/account details).

Thanks in advance.

no need for cross-posting, you already opened a thread with your question HERE. I already replied to your question with some details. Hope it helps. Cheers!

Also, I would like to add that Ninjatrader Brokerage does not recommend Dorman to European clients but Phillip Capital. This has probably changed and is valid since the beginning of 2020 as I have learned. Also me as a German citizen was recommended by Ninjatrader Brokerage quite clearly PhillipCapital, whose advice I also followed.

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  #29 (permalink)
Etisan
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LaissezFaire View Post
Hi all,

Google took me to this thread!

I'm a happy customer using NT8 + Dorman Trading, but, I'm not quite satisfied that the only thing that's available on Dorman's online portal is my daily statement in a PDF format.

Meaning - there's no electronic portal where I can check my account value, current open positions, basic performance statistics, etc.

Is this possible with Phillip Capital?

Someone also said that Phillips have easier to read statements? Would love to see an example of one if someone doesn't mind to post one (just erase your name/account details).

Thanks in advance.

Some Phillips statements are shown on this page :https://www.bearbulltrading.com/results/

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  #30 (permalink)
 tuffcoucou 
Deland
 
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I am currently with Philipp and happy with it.

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 SMCJB 
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ShatteredX View Post
Only big difference I'm aware of is you can only trade XBT (Cboe Bitcoin) with Phillip Capital, can't trade it with Dorman. You CAN trade BTC (CME Bitcoin) with both, though.

CBOE discontinued XBT last year I believe. I do know Phillips are one of only 3 or 4 Brokers (ED&F, Wedbush and maybe FCStone) that let you go to delivery with the ICE Bitcoin contract though. (Size 1 Coin vs CMEs 5 coins. CME contract is also financially settled).

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Mozart2112
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Not sure if there is a difference in Margin between the two FCM's but that might be something to consider when choosing.

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