Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,778 since Jun 2009
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I'm not sure, but I bet you can ask Ray when he holds the special NinjaTrader webinar on June 8th here on futures.io (formerly BMT), and remember we're also giving away a free lifetime license to NinjaTrader as a prize as part of our 1-year anniversary.
Or if you just email them above let us know what the response was
NinjaTrader has created a new brand for a market data service (named Kinetick) and decided to use Telvent DTN as our technology provider. What is different about using Kinetick through NinjaTrader versus DTN/IQFeed directly is:
- We wrote from scratch an adapter (working jointly with Telvent DTN to ensure optimal performance) that connects directly to the Telvent DTN servers vs our IQFeed adapter that communicates through the IQFeed Client API (an extra layer that no longer is needed)
- We offer the service free for EOD historical data for stocks, futures and forex
- Pricing plans for real time data are $50, $70 and $80 --> You only get the $80 version through IQFeed
- No set up fee to start the service (IQFee charges a set up fee)
Ray
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On the paper, this looks very nice, let's see how it goes in real life.
I hope we'll have some beta-testers here in futures.io (formerly BMT), to give us unfiltered thoughts
On release of next beta, any existing DTN/IQFeed user can create a Kinetick connection and plug in their DTN/IQFeed login credentials to test out this new feed. This access is temporary and will be removed once in production. In addition, there is a pre-configured EOD conection that is always there and free for historical stocks, futures and forex daily data.
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Great, now all they gotta do is fix the bid/ask time stamp issue that everyone's been asking about for the past 3+ years... Looks like they're still busy with ninja 7 beta and won't have time for that... oh and it looks like their new market data feed with a new api built from scratch... They had time for that.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Michael.H for this post:
I'm glad to see at least a better and free EOD provider included above and beyond Yahoo and not having to get minute data from ZenFire then setting my chart session time to match the RTH so I can then extrapolate my own daily data for futures.
So I signed up to be a beta tester. Tried it just now, just to see what happens and got the following error. Went to the KT site, but it is still under construction. I have beta 16.
It says 08, not 10 for the date. What next???
R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
I posted a message at the NT forum, will wait and see what the reply might be. The reason you are getting 06-08 is you must have your Daily chart set up for 2 years. 06-08 would be the first required contract to load data from to make a 2 year chart.
Had a look at various futures contracts and daily data supplied via Kinetick. Here are my first impressions on the futures data
- I could only load continuous contracts (##-##), no individual contracts were available
- The continuous contracts were not backadjusted
- Some of the symbol maps (for example DX and KC) do not work
- The daily futures data is sometimes more false than correct (for example BC, CC, CT, EMD, GC, SI, HG)
The quality of the daily data is not impressive. It is actually worse than Interactive Brokers. Daily charts added.
Hope this will get better in some time.
Edited: Just to be fair, the charts below all use a false symbol mapping, once I changed the symbol mapping, the price data was correct, the volume data is still not convincing.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
Major brain fart, deleted that post. It was inaccurate and confusing.
Fat Tails has the answer. I forgot about NT7 being able to do continuous contracts as long as your data feed also supports them. It appears the free EOD does not support individual contracts.
Checked this, the daily data for 6E goes back to January 1999. Data looks okay after 2004, volume is missing for the period prior to May 2001 and between December 2003 and March 2004 (see chart).
The issue you guys are having with "unknown" instrument is expected based on default NT settings. Here is the big picture with NT7.
- By default, there is a "MergeBackAdjusted" setting that when loading futures contracts with lookback periods that extend into expired contracts, NT will transparently load this data, back adjust and merge giving you the net result of a continuous contract
- With Kinetick (pulling data for IQFeed servers) they do not maintain historical data for expired contracts (at our request, they do plan on doing this going forward)
- So what happens is when you request historical data for contract month 06-10, and go back to an expired month, NT tries to pull data from the server but it does not exist so we get an unknown instrument error
How to get around?
- Only load data for the current month going back to the rollover date for the current month
- Use the real continuous contract (ES ##-## for example) which will pull the continuous contract historical data (bear in mind that this data is NOT back adjusted)
On one other note, since Kinetick uses Telvent DTN as a technology provider, the quality of the historical data will be identical, for those of you used to DTN/IQFeed.
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I am not trying to be rude. But I hate what I call flying-hands demonstrations:
See attached: Fat Tails taught me something about merging I had never explored and still is not completely obvious to me, but as an experimentalist he put me on the trail and I will figure it out.
You know NT, Right? Give me step by step. Post screen shots, charts, parameter lists, code, etc. I do that for others on the forum all the time, please do it for me?
Or tell me if giving up until next week is the best course.
BTW: why pull 16 so fast? I am running it now. Sure it crashes in replay, but that is 7's history, nothing new.
R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
I tried getting a daily on GC ##-## (gold) and got no data found. All most all metal futures returned no data. A quick check shows no Symbol mapping for Kinetick. I googled iqfeed and came up with the Symbol QGC for gold. That worked but as you can see, big holes in the volume.
Other instruments missing a Kinetick mapped symbol I tried were SI and HG, should be QSI and QHG respectively. Also DX is @D and it should be @DX.
Understood, in the future, I will try to be more explanatory. B16 installer was pulled since we uncovered a few more installation items that we wanted to address. The new installer will be back up tomorrow, Monday at the latest.
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Thanks for the hint. Some of my problems were caused by wrong symbols. I just replaced @MD with @EMD (S&P midcap 400), @K with @KC (coffee), BC with @EB (Brent Crude) and the symbols for gold, silver and the dollar index as below. Data is now better, but there are still large holes in the volume for some contracts.
The symbol lookup of IQFeed is a pain, for EMD I could not find the symbol, so I just used the try and error method.
If you go back in time, some of the data is very strange, for example see EURGBP data in the beginning of 1997. Would you believe this?
I have personally found that most of historical data is of questionable quality and that it is cheaper to pay for good data than use so-called free data.
Just got the message. Kinetick will not be beta tested until 17 is out.
Wonder if there are any slots for testers open?
Dear Kinetick Beta Tester:
Thanks again for your patience. Unfortunately, some changes were made outside of our control to the server technology that has forced us to delay the beta access until we release Beta 17 which should be out the week after next.
Here are some specifics you should be aware of:
- Supports stocks for real time and historical data
- Supports CME E-Minis for real time and historical data
- Supports Level II and Market Depth data
- To establish a connection, from within the NinjaTrader Control Center > Tools > Account Connections, select Kinetick and follow the wizard
This account will NOT work with Beta 16 or earlier. It will only become active when we release Beta 17.
Thanks and have a great weekend.
R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
Depends on the format. Technically, EOD is a time. Daily data can never which is why the question was asked. Do you know for a fact that Kinetick only provides Daily format at EOD, or was this off the cuff?
Thank you for the info on the continuous & individual futures.
The issue was with the Kinetick/IQFeed adapter code in requesting historical data from the servers. Has nothing do to with Session Manager, Caching, Database etc... This has been resolved for our next update.
Thank you for the clarification. From the point of a user, it is sometimes difficult to understand, what actually has caused the problem, whether is was the datafeed or the software. There are still specific problems with all types of data feeds under various circumstances. I just wanted to say that it is time to get things fixed. Maybe I got a bit sarcastic, because both waiting time and bugs add up.
My impatience is also due to the fact that NT 6.5. is unstable on my broker / data feed, and I do not want ot use it any more. NT 7 is already a huge improvement as it does not crash regularly on loading data. Kinetick feed loads smoothly and fast, and the problem I observed can probably be easily fixed.
There is no one more motivated than me to get things fixed, get things stable and push NinjaTrader 7 our the door into production. I do understand how frustrating it is from a user perspective but I assure you that we are doing everything we can in cooperation with issue reports from our users to get NT7 out the door.
I'm running NT 7.0.0.21, with a license, and have hooked into Kinetick. But it doesnt seem to fill my data. Is it last day only? Or does it do historical ticks, eg 20 or 30 days?
No, I haven't paid for the Kinetick feed. Looks like the Kinetick free day is daily data only, no tick data.
Steve
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I'm running NT 7.0.0.21, with a license, and have hooked into Kinetick. But it doesnt seem to fill my data. Is it last day only? Or does it do historical ticks, eg 20 or 30 days?
Yes, EOD data is free. Intraday real-time data is billed.
But consider: I know about 20 different charting packages, and none of them has free quality EOD data for single month and continuous futures. The only ones I have found were VisualChart and ProRealTime, but those are ways inferior to NinjaTrader.
However, the free FOREX live feed from Gain will be stopped in 2 weeks time.
My frustration with Kinetick is that I can't seem to load any more than 20 days of historical tick data. This may be a reason for the many loading errors in NT. I hope Kinetick will eventually provide more tick data so I can run my fibonacci indicators with confidence.
Actually considering PFG to also run my Neuroshell software. They apparently have a discounted broker/datafeed available. I trade atleast 100 contracts rt on the ES a few times a day so it may be more cost effective to get a seat on the CME. I'm told I could save the $3+ per contract echange fees. I think there's another area on futures.io (formerly BMT) site for such info. Any suggestions?
Good to know... I think this is the set that is similar to Nexgen. I'll try it out since the Nexgen fibs is demanding the 200 days historical tick data. Nice solution, thx!
tdaman, re your comment "I trade atleast 100 contracts rt on the ES a few times a day so it may be more cost effective to get a seat on the CME. I'm told I could save the $3+ per contract echange fees. I think there's another area on futures.io (formerly BMT) site for such info. Any suggestions?"
Trying a simple search with the word 'seat', brings up the Feb. 7 post, that might be a place to start. "Comprehensive E-mini commission analysis"
(I've not read it.)
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The Fib Cluster indicator is a simple versiion, which shows fib lines based on prior highs and lows, retracements and expansions. The indicator is based on multiday highs and lows. It was my first attempt to code fibs. Versions availabe are V14 for NT 7.0 and V95 for NT 6.5.
The FibonacciZones indicator uses a different logic, as it relies on 10 different zigzags that scan the chart for prior highs and lows, retracements, expansions, projections and alternates. It does not display all the lines, but condenses them to confluence zones by taking into account the statistical weight of each fib line.
I my comment above, I referred to the second indicator. It needs 300 days of data, but it works well, if you just use 20 days of intraday data and extend this with daily data. The reason is that intraday highs that were more than 20 days ago have little impact on price action as per today. So you do not need to take that into account.
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NinjaTrader stores tick data locally. So if Kinetick data offers 20 days of tick data, you need to connect once every 20 days to collect the data. Your tick data base will grow and grow.
There is an elegant way to download tickdata for all your instruments at once. Select -> Tools -> Historical Data Manager -> Download, and then highlight the Default folder in the left window. Now select your download period and whether you want to download tick, minute or daily data. See screenshot below.
Press the download button. Get yourself a nice cup of fresh coffee. When you come back, historical data for all your instruments in the default folder should be updated.
This way you can easily build up a data base with months or years of tick data. The tick data takes lots of space, so you should regularly backup your data base. You can do this automatically or manually.
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I'm having a problem with NT Backtest101 data matching up with my Print displays on the output screen in strategy Analyzer. Do I have to individually load the backtest101 data myself. I thought if I add an instrument,
e.g., NG 10-10, the NT server will get it for me but I'm finding the data output on the Trade Screen does not
correspond with my Print displays on the output screen. Do I have to load this data down from the server
some way? Before it was matching, but it gone haywire. Any idea guys?
Thanks for your support.
Caught in the middle between a bit of code and a hard place.
(1) Select rollover date, enter rollover date via instrument manager (for the financials the default settings are ok, but for energies, metals, agriculturals and softs I look at volume crossover). All instrument settings remain at Global Configuration, which is MergeBackAdjusted.
(2) On rollover day, load daily and intraday data for all instruments via Historical Data Manager (Download, 1 week period as per default)
(3) Open an intraday chart for the new contract month.
(4) Check, whether thee offset has been correctly calculated and written to the instrument master data.
(5) Send a support note to NinjaTrader, because the data is not correctly displayed on my charts that use several sessions per day.
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You are one sharp dude! You talked about Historical Data Manager. I looked on my NT 6.5. I couldn't find it. So,
now I'm on NT 7.0, and it's faster and in my output window, I'm not getting any of the problems I was experiencing in NT 6.5 were I couldn't find the corresponding "Print" Close[0], etc. with the Strategy Analyzer Entry and Exit Prices. Not having any problem thank to your comments, Fat Tails. My strategy is at 56%. I've gone through 50 strategys and I'm getting to know the indicators. I like to see small losses and big gains. I'm just doing backtesting101, so we'll see when i get to sym testing. Thanks again.
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I am facing several issues with Zen-Fire data on NinjaTrader (bars are always different from other thaders using the same technology, even if I reload historical data).
Can anyone tell me if Kinetick is reliable on that point?
I understand that DTN data and technology powers both IQFeed and Kinetick. IQFeed uses client software that users download. I believe that Kinetick uses special adapter that optimizes connection to NinjaTrader.
Has anyone tested both and found Kinetick to be faster, more reliable or in any way better? (Except that it's cheaper).
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,778 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,304 given,
97,553
received
There is the flip side to consider -- if you go with the original IQfeed instead of Kinetick, then you can use it to power NinjaTrader, MultiCharts, etc concurrently -- whereas Kinetick would only work inside NT. Of course Kinetick is cheaper, so it depends on your needs.
I understand, which is why I would actually prefer IQFeed. I am just wondering if supposed tighter integration made kinetick faster or more reliable in any way. Or to put it another way, does the extra layer introduced by the IQFeed client software really make a difference?
Of course it makes a difference, there is a layer of generic API code that is eliminated which practically means there is less processing of the feed. If you need to power multiple applications (not just NinjaTrader) then Kinetick is not for you as Mike pointed out. If you only need a feed for NinjaTrader then Kinetick is by far a better option both technically and financially.
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Is this something that you tested against IQFeed? Would the difference only show when there is a lot of symbols being processed? I personally use about 5 charts of ES, one of which is a 2000 tick chart, the rest intraday and daily. NinjaTrader platform is fine for me, but I would prefer to have access to more than one platform if possible. I guess I'll have to test both out to see if I see any difference that I can notice.
If you need access to more than one platform than pay the premium and go with IQFeed. Difference would for sure be more noticeable when demand on the feed is much higher than a few symbols.
yes from kinetick, I'm looking to subscribe today they quoted me for all my instruments around 80$ with cme waived but from jan on because of that TF it will be 150$ a month
This morning I was connected to Kinetick and it took my 2 hours to notice by accident that I was watching at some delayed data feed again. This have happend several times in the beginning but they fixed it after I emailed them.
I connected to the correct payed Kinetick datafeed but once in a while there seems to be some setting that gets enabled just like that and boom! I'm having delayed datafeed.
It's pissing me off.
I've had it with kinetick and canceled them. I connected to my DTN/IQFeed and all was fine again. Kinetick is NOT the same as DTN/IQFeed, apparently.
Problem also with kinetick they have NO TELEPHONE number you can call, and if you are trading the European morning session like me there is no support contact via email or something else. nothing, nada.
I checked the websites, and indeed Kinetick just offers support via e-mail, which is not satisfactory.
But if you need support with DTN/IQ during the early morning session you are not better off:
- The live chat is not working.
- Subscriber support - via phone or chat - is only available after 6:30 Central Time, which is 1:30 PM Central European Time.
If you trade the European morning, you should better pay for a second data feed as a backup or opt for a data provider who offers support.
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I can confirm the poor service europe time, two weeks ago the kinetick data feed on ES( I think also other symbols) was transmitting the bid and ask but not the last and I began to send e-mail around 7 or 8 o'clock in the morning swiss time and they could resolve the problem they got just after 8 Hours!!!!
Anyway it was my only big problem with Kinetick, the people there I find very helpful especialy Tim and Ryan.
So at the end for the moment I am happy with kinetick
Roberto
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I agree absolutely I asked for a number to call for emergency and niet ( at least to have somebody 24 hours to e-mail)
In my case I just switched to the IB data feed up to the moment that they resolved the problem
The following user says Thank You to rcabri for this post:
Hello, I just tried to connect to Kinetick, but apparently the service is down, I cannot email or call somebody so I have to wait at least 10 hours from now until I can reach somebody at Kinetick, what kind of service is that ?
Trading: all that move nicely, extend your horizons
Posts: 68 since Nov 2009
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are you trying with the R2 of NT7 that they offer since last week? I think it's a paramount upgrade for Kinetick users...dont see any issue on mine here this AM.
The following user says Thank You to wavey for this post:
Do I really have to join esignal and pay $5000 a year (or $50.000.- / 10 year, or $100.000 for a career of 20 years of trading) to get some bloody data ?
When I upgraded to the newest NT7 I couldn't connect when I started it up. I removed the connection settings and created a new connection. Problem solved. Could this possibly be the problem?
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,778 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,304 given,
97,553
received
Why not just subscribe to IQFeed and drop Kinetick? I've been using IQFeed exclusively now for over a year, I can't even tell you the last time I had a single problem -- if ever.
