I guess it is not affecting your trading business then, because it it was, as with any business there should be BC plans and you should have dropped it already the moment it became unreliable... I use IQFeed because for what we can afford is reliable... I rather pay $1.2K/year for IQF than pay $20K+/year for an extremely reliable data feed (i.e. Bloomberg, CQG, etc)
Kinetick connects directly into IQFeed servers, they are Kinetick's technology provider. If IQFeed service is up, Kinetick is up, if IQFeed is down, Kinetick is down. We had over 700 unique connections through Kinetick without incident yesterday.
I looked at MetalTrades images and its clear that for some reason, his PC was unable to establish a connection to the IQFeed server farm as well as Telvent server to validate his CME waiver (independent connection from the ticker plant) my point being, there was a problem between his ISP and IQFeed servers that prevented a connection.
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
In this case one can find out by writing down the IP-adresses of the access points and ping them.
I have had a similar issue with my broker, when one of the transatlantic cables was down. Actually the transmission stopped in Antwerp. i have then shifted my access point to the Broker from the US to Switzerland, now connecting into a Swiss server for order execution and most of the data feeds.
Since last post was from January I wanted to see if this thread is quiet because Kinetic customers are happy or moved on? Anyone using Kinetic who used to use DTN/IQ? Is it really the same? Specifically is the bid/ask data just as reliable?
DTN and Kinetic are the same thing. It's 6 months that I am using kinetics and I most say that I am very happy, there was a problem for 4 hours about 4 months ago and apart that nothing else so to be a new company it's really fine
Roberto
The following 2 users say Thank You to rcabri for this post:
I've seen it mentioned several places, including on this forum that Kinetick daily Closing prices are Settlement prices. However here is a response I just received from Kinetick Customer Support regarding this:
"Thank you for your note.
The EOD data is closing price. The EOD is the max high, max low, the open price, and the closing price at 4:15PM EST.
This is not necessarily the exchange settlement price.
Please let me know if you need further clarification.
Sincerely,
Matthew Hendricks"
What is the user experience out there, are they reporting settlement prices or not?
Misunderstanding. The EOD price is the last trade of the session however, at some time later in the day, the exchange will send out the final settlement price at which time the Kinetick feed will update its daily close to reflect the settlement price.
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
I use the Kinetick prices every day for calculating my floor pivots. I appreciate very much that all the prices are settlement prices. I have frequently checked them against exchange data for CME, NYMEX, IPE and EUREX futures, and usually there are no problems. For further information on settlement prices for CME please have a look here
For index futures there is an exception for the last trading day of a month, when the settlement price is not taken directly from the index futures between 3:14:30 and 3:15:00 PM Central Time. Instead there is a fair value procedure and the settlement price for index futures is calculated from the cash index (the underlying) at 3:00 PM Central Time by adding finance charges and expected dividends until expiry.
So don't be astonished, if for ES, YM, NQ and EMD, there is a larger difference between closing and settlement price as usual. I am writing this, because today is April 1, and you will notice this for yesterday's settlement prices.
Kinetick has no daily data for YM today - or NinjaTrader cannot handle it ?
Kinetick still has problems handling this month end data. Today there was no daily data available for YM. The reason is quite funny. The cash index dropped during the last hour and made a low at the monthly close. The futures only partly followed this move and went up again after 3:00 PM. The result:
Yesterday's settlement price - established on the fair value procedure which means calculated from the cash index - is lower than yesterday's low.
Now this kills the logic of NinjaTrader. A close cannot be lower than the low of the day, or could it be? So there is no data.
In this case the only thing to do: Edit the data base and decide, whether you want to replace the settlement price with the low, or the low with the settlement price. Now enter the values manually as shown below. I opted to use the lower settlement price.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
So far, it's been fine for me - there was a server problem a week or so back but it got sorted.
The biggest advantage, if you have an issue and it turns out to be a problem with Ninja, Kinetick are actually better at resolving Ninja issues that Ninja are.
I need to point out an issue regarding fast markets: I switch my feed to IB when markets get heavy (big news events, mini-crashes, etc..), mainly because I believe it is more reliable than 3rd party brokers in such times (and I always enter a trade directly through my TWS in those conditions as well). The only caveat is that you must also switch to time based charts ( seconds, minutes etc..).
Furthermore, a common misconception is that the IB feed will not work as well on time based charts. If you are using tick charts, yes, IB is not the way to go as it does not provide true tick data. But if you trade anywhere from 1 mn to 10 mn, it is perfectly okay since the data is consolidated every few milliseconds. Not noticeable on a 1 minute chart, and not noticeable even with cumulative delta on a 1minute bar if looking for divergences.
Some of this is empirical, so I would like to see someone else give us a video of an IB DOM reads vs an NT DOM with DTN/Kinetick during a heavy volume news event.
The following user says Thank You to crosscreek for this post:
it alldepends where you are.
I am sitting in europe and i had always problems with DTN feed, could be also MY ISP but esignal worked better for me.
I am using IB also as datafeed and i am using only Constant Volume bars. since IB trasmitts the Volume i have quite accurate charts. But the important point: IB has realy no problem when it comes to heavy market moves, feed is running ok. (because of aggregation )
If you use constant volume charts based on IB volume, good luck. IB real-time volume is false all the time, as it is only a bad approximation of real volume. If you replace real-time volume with historical volume, you will notice a huge difference.
It is true that the IB feed is aggregated (condensed ticks). Under heavy market conditions this is an advantage, as NinjaTrader is less likely to freeze on badly coded indicators.
I have personally tested Kinetick feed over several months, and the quality was excellent. As you notice, I am also located in Europe.
Volume from IB is not 100% accurate, but on 2M Volume you will miss maby about 20k f it is a bad day. i tested SIDE by SIDE IB-esignal-Zen-CQG as data with a 5k Constant Volume chart on ES, and they are pretty much the same. but you are right, IB is not perfect :-)
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,008 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given,
98,293
received
I agree with Fat Tails. If you use IB for minute-based charting or analysis, you are fine. If you use it for anything tick data related, tick chart, volume chart, renko chart, etc -- forget it, it is completely inaccurate and worthless.
That was my initial point, IB is useless with any tick based chart. But when markets get very heavy, I switch to time based charts and use the IB feed, just to be safe.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,008 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given,
98,293
received
Kinetick is a branded version of IQFeed for use exclusively with NinjaTrader. IQFeed (and thus Kinetick) offers 120 days of historical tick data backfill, as well as several years of minute data. Some instruments go back 5 years or more, most all popular futures contracts included.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,008 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given,
98,293
received
Ray this is new to me so I want to clarify, so I can download bid/ask events for cumulative delta studies from IQFeed or Kinetick and NinjaTrader will pick them up now? I know IQFeed (Kinetick) support it, but didn't know NT did. That is why there is Gomi's recording framework, specifically for bid/ask events.
Thanks for asking this question since it is an important one to clarify.
Historical BID/ASK tick data is available from Kinetick.
This is different than BID/ASK prices attached to historical LAST data (which is what I believe you are asking about and what GOMI does)
To further clarify -
In NinjaTrader 7, you can open a chart and select the price data to be built using either ASK/BID/LAST. If the user chose ASK or BID, the bars would be built off of this price type and if connected to Kinetick, this historical data would be returned.
The following 3 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
I know NT7 supports historical data for ticks down to increments in seconds. It has been suggested NT8 will offer increments down to nano-seconds.
Therefore my question is, does IQfeed/Kinetick right now feeds historical tick data down to the seconds or below ?
I am trying to use range bars using IB. What exacly will be wrong with the charts?
Range bars are built from ticks. Interactive Brokers does not have historical ticks so you won't get range bars on historical charts. You cannot backfill your charts, …
The following 2 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,008 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given,
98,293
received
I started to reply and say 1 second, but then I was questioning and wanted to make sure it was right. So I've emailed Jay @ IQFeed to ask, and will post his response. The question/answer will be just for IQFeed, nothing to do with what the platform (NinjaTrader) is capable of.
Thanks Mike, that's because I heard from last Ray's NT7 webinar, "90% of data feeds for Ninja right now don't support increments below 1second"
So I was wondering, which ones are the remaining 10% ?
Final Q : I'm runing Ninja with a SIM licence on 2 computers. Will one suscribtion with Kinetick allow me to feed both computers at the same time ?
Cheers
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,008 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given,
98,293
received
IQFeed time stamps to the nearest second.
Some charting programs like MultiCharts is set to a tick level granular storage, meaning it is not every second, not every millisecond, not every nanosecond, but every tick. This is great so long as the ticks coming in are in the right order, which I feel safe they are with IQFeed. But for historical data coming from IQFeed, unless they do something similar, it is only timestamped down to 1 second.
No. You will require two Kinetick subscriptions. If you have one subscription and connect with computer A, when you connect using this same subscription with computer B, you will be disconnected from computer A.
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
I have a payed Kinetic subscription and I have noticed that the FX futures daily open and close are not correct when compared to the inter-day data. It appears to be on all FX futures, 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, etc. when data is supplied from Kinetic. It's like they are using a RTH session to filter the open and close. I can switch to a 1440 minute chart which will give me an accurate candles on the chart. Using my IB account to reload the historical data shows a correct version of the chart data. If using fattails pivots, it requires that you switch to calculate via inter-day data otherwise my pivots and previous close are incorrect.
The templates and session times are correct.
Anyone else having this issue?
3 screen shots below, a Kinetic daily 6E, a 1440 minute Kinetic 6E, and a IB daily 6E. The daily chart uses the same template with only the data connection being changed. The Kinetic 1440 min and IB daily almost mirror each other.
I quit using tick charts a while back and have gone back to minute charts, so the IB feed is all I need. Pretty much all my daytrading is done off a 1 mn chart with Cumulative delta and S/R levels and since the CD 1 mn candle is not affected by some of the IB grouping within that bar, I decided to drop all those paid services ( I rarely use the ladder except for COT and even that works fine with the IB data on a 1 mn candle). Furthermore, the volume histogram on the IB dom pretty much does the job as well. By the way, I need to give a special word of thanks to Gomi and the incredible work of many folks here at Big Mikes. What a treasure.
In my view, the motion within any given period of time and the mirror patterns within a day are more important than building a candle off ticks or an arbitrary volume or a range, so I have no need for any other service than what IB provides and I trade pretty much full time. All my longer term data I get from TOS and an account I keep at Ameritrade, and that combo is all I need (Kinetic also gives an end of day for free, which takes care of any longer term analysis as well) I know everyone is different, but after years of Qcharts, Esignal etc... and literally tens of thousands of dollars wasted, I am down to NT with the IB feed. How many full time traders have done this, I am curious to know.
The following user says Thank You to crosscreek for this post:
You will likely notice that the OHL prices are identical between your Daily and 1440 chart. The difference in the close price is that the Daily chart uses the CME provided settlement price. At some time after the market closes, the CME will send the settlement price and at that time, Kinetick will use that to mark the daily close in replace of the last traded price intraday. The 1440 chart is showing the close price as the last traded price for the day.
The following 5 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
In fact, Interactive Brokers has low quality data, so they just put the close from the intraday data on their daily charts.
As Ray from NinjaTrader pointed out, Kinetick uses the settlement price for the daily bar close. This is quite important as the settlement price is needed for a number of daily indicators, and you cannot get it elsewhere. The settlement price is also used to determine your margin requirements.
The use of the settlement price is actually a feature of a quality data feed. It is not a bug!
I have used the IB feed the past year and the pit session closes are spot on, never an issue with it, especially as it relates to any gaps. RTH hourly confirms this. I agree that it takes a while to adjust to the settlement price, but that's never been an issue for me.
To add a stock from TSX (former TSE) you first need to look up the Kinetick symbol. You can use the symbol guide of DTN/IQ or simply take the stock exchange symbol and add a C. For example Sun Life Financial has the symbol SLF. You would then expect the Kinetick symbol to be "C.SLF".
Now open the instrument manager of NinjaTrader. Then select "New" and a popup with the instrument editor will appear. Enter "C.SLF" for the Stock of Sunlife Financial. Select currency and appopriate session template. Select both "Default" and "TSX" for the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSE is Tokyo Stock Exchange).
Then go to Instrument Editor -> Miscellaneous and enter C.SLF as the Kinetick symbol for the new instrument.
Save and close the instrument manager. Chart attached.
It is also possible to import an entire instrument list from a file, see description here
Thanks for replying. What are the other FX data providers. It's not clear, i thought FXCM was one provider and tenFore the other provider. That makes two providers but you seem to imply there are many more providers. I am confused.
I wrote to Kinetick and i got this reply:
"The Basic Forex package includes all the most popular pairs from FXCM and has a cost of $25/mo.
The Premium Forex has additional pairs from Tenfore, including regional banks and more exotic pairs like spot Silver and Gold, the Premium Forex package is $50/mo."
His answer has to do with pairs and not multiple providers.
Regarding FXCM he replied this:
"I am not sure what feed the FXCM free platforms will use.
You would need to check with FXCM for clarification."
I just received clarification that our Barclays feed was just dropped. The many feeds come through TenFore as it is supplemented by regional banks. Thus, currently, there is FXCM (basic) and TenFore (premium) which comes with additional feeds from regional banks. With respect to FXCM, all we can accurately state is that the feed that they use for their platform is the same feed Kinetick is providing.
Thanks again, i also got another reply from Kinetick. You'll note that he does not seem to be aware about Barclays beeing dropped.
"There is FXCM, Tenfore and BarClays, plus several regional banks which can be used as you provider. Each provider is going to have access to a number of different pairs.
This is the primary difference between the Basic and the Premium subscription: With the basic package, you will only have access to FXCM; with the Premium subscription you will have the option to select TenFore, BarClays or any of the other exotic pairs and banks available."
follow up on the premium Forex subscription:
---
The TenFore Premium Forex data is a composite of the regional banks that are available.
For example the main symbol from TenFore for the EURUSD is EURUSD.COMP, but with TenFore there are also some individual bank quotes available, such as:
I have heard your are currently working to add support for FXCM. Now, say i have an account with FXCM, would there be any incentive to subscribe to the basic Forex package through Kinetick? And any idea when this provider will be fully supported?
That is a financial question. It depends on your license situation and requirements. Development is complete and we are in the final stages of crossing t's and dotting i's on the compliance side of things. I am hoping that we will launching beta shortly.
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
Anyone know if the Kinetic feed can be used with charting applications that support DTN Iqfeed? I was looking to use
it with IRT and sometimes Ninjatrader.
I am assuming yes since they are basically the same....
Please contact Kinetick customer support for the quickest response, we don't always monitor these forums while we do have people staffed on our help desk most hours of the day.
Kinetick's Basic Service is the base fee for receiving market data, and in order to receive forex data you will need to add the proper exchange entitlements as this is not included with the Basic Service. Kinetick offers two packages for forex, either the Basic Forex or Institutional Premium Forex. The Basic Forex package includes all the most popular pairs from FXCM and is $25/month, which is added to the Basic Service. The Premium Forex has additional pairs from Tenfore, including regional banks and more exotic pairs like spot Silver and Gold. The Premium Forex is $50/month.
If you have additional questions please direct them to sales{at]kinetickdotcom.
In the past I have used Kinetick data and found them to be the best. I'm on ToS now but periodically I review the features and benefits of all the vendors I use.
Kinetick, @NinjaTrader and IB have always been the best combination for me. Right now I'm trying to work back that direction.
For some reason TD will not allow futures quote data to be shipped to NT (where all of the best analysis takes place) So what I'm doing is trying to dial things back in on NT. I signed up for the EOD feed from Kinetick and daily charts populate.
My question: Is there a way to see historical intraday data using the EOD feed. I know I can probably swing a trial from Kinetick, but I'm not sure that it will be long enough for me to get all the work done.
Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
No, this is not possible. Additionally, Kinetick does not offer a real-time data trial, you would need to subscribe to the service.
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
I may just open a small account somewhere and operate concurrently...sort of a live test/transition, rather than ramp even a small expense just to get a look.
NT is by a long way the most useful/beneficial analytics platform I have seen. I regret not buying the lifetime license years ago. Id recommend that to any serious person. Thank you for setting the standard.
-Dan
The following 2 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
Does Kinetick have a non back-adjusted continuous ES contract?
I am using the Kinetick Symbol search, but cannot seem to find one: https://kinetick.com/Help
I need to pull a few years worth of 5min ES charts to print out and study. I need to see accurate price movement, and thus do not want 'back-adjusted' charts that might alter the actual price movements for any given day.
The following user says Thank You to DanDaMan for this post:
Within the NinjaTrader Control Center > Tools > Options > Market Data > Set the property "Global Merge Policy" to "Merge non back adjusted". Then open a chart of the current front month (ES 03-21 for example) and request 5 years back worth of data. That said, I don't recall how for back you can get data for expired contracts, I doubt its anything close to 5 years. This policy only affects client side (NinjaTrader side) merging of expired contracts into the current front month. It does not affect server side aggregated continuous contracts. I don't think that Kinetick has a server side non back adjusted continuous contract.
Ray
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
The following 2 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
That worked! Kinetick pulled in years worth of expired contracts, and NinjaTrader assembled them client side as you mentioned. Now I can continuously see on one chart years of data, with no adjustments.
Cheers!
The following 2 users say Thank You to DanDaMan for this post:
