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NinjaTrader Brokerage Services (www.ninjatraderbrokerage.com)

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  #201 (permalink)
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Markus View Post
@ninjabroker

Is it true that Global Futures is becoming your partner?
Will they offer Ninja AMP and Ninja Borkerage at the same time?

TIA

No it is not true that they are becoming our partner. Our list of of approved brokerages for the NinjaTrader platform is publicly located here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners.

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  #202 (permalink)
Neuwied Germany
 
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NinjaTrader View Post
No it is not true that they are becoming our partner. Our list of of approved brokerages for the NinjaTrader platform is publicly located here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners.

@NinjaTrader

Did you cancel AMP from the broker list? Don´t see them listed there anymore.

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  #203 (permalink)
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pipandrun View Post
@NinjaTrader

Did you cancel AMP from the broker list? Don´t see them listed there anymore.

Yes, please clarify this?
AMP is not part of your brokerage partnership, anymore?

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  #204 (permalink)
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@NinjaTrader since appears you took AMP off your broker list (Glad you did if this is the case). Consider putting Optimus on it. They have given many as evidenced on this board stellar service regarding NT. @mattz deserves a chance.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #205 (permalink)
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I talked to Stage 5 they are suppose to be working on providing Ninjatrader in the near future.

It appears some brokers are working to get into the ecosystem.

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  #206 (permalink)
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pipandrun View Post
@NinjaTrader

Did you cancel AMP from the broker list? Don´t see them listed there anymore.

Although I fully expected NinjaTrader Brokerage to compete directly with AMP, their owner Dan Culp has thrown a number dirty shots below the belt my way, and as a result I decided to remove them from our list of approved brokerages. Competition is good and healthy but I have standards in how I conduct business.

We are contractually obligated to provide clients the option to obtain a “NinjaTrader on CQG” license for use through AMP. This obligation terminates in March 2015. Existing clients are unaffected and can continue to broker through AMP for as long as you wish.

It is important to know that NinjaTrader will release server side ATM strategies, server side simulation, mobile trading interface and other features sometime in 2015. These important features are exclusive to NinjaTrader Brokerage. Clients with a NinjaTrader Brokerage account prior to the release of these platform advancements are guaranteed NOT to have any price increase to access these features.

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  #207 (permalink)
PTA, Gauteng
 
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NinjaTrader View Post
Although I fully expected NinjaTrader Brokerage to compete directly with AMP, their owner Dan Culp has thrown a number dirty shots below the belt my way, and as a result I decided to remove them from our list of approved brokerages. Competition is good and healthy but I have standards in how I conduct business.

We are contractually obligated to provide clients the option to obtain a “NinjaTrader on CQG” license for use through AMP. This obligation terminates in March 2015. Existing clients are unaffected and can continue to broker through AMP for as long as you wish.

It is important to know that NinjaTrader will release server side ATM strategies, server side simulation, mobile trading interface and other features sometime in 2015. These important features are exclusive to NinjaTrader Brokerage. Clients with a NinjaTrader Brokerage account prior to the release of these platform advancements are guaranteed NOT to have any price increase to access these features.

Why anyone on this site continues to want anything to do with AMP is beyond me. The incidents of their arrogance and unethical behavior pop up constantly.

For those that aren't aware,...do some digging around on the forum re AMP. AMP taking legal action against futures.io (formerly BMT) is the tip of the ice berg. They are not a company I will ever do business with. Quite surprised any forum regulars who know of AMP's history would want to either.

Sorry,...will not hijack the thread any more. Just needed to be said as yet another case of AMP's arrogance an unethical behavior pops up.

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  #208 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post

It is important to know that NinjaTrader will release server side ATM strategies, server side simulation, mobile trading interface and other features sometime in 2015. These important features are exclusive to NinjaTrader Brokerage. Clients with a NinjaTrader Brokerage account prior to the release of these platform advancements are guaranteed NOT to have any price increase to access these features.

Why do you not guarantee this price feature to ALL your long standing customers who own lifetime licences, irrelevant to the date of owning an account with NJ Brokerage. This would show your dedication to your customer base who have been so loyal over the years.

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  #209 (permalink)
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Why anyone on this site continues to want anything to do with AMP is beyond me.

Me as well, but I think it's simply a matter of lack of education. Only those that have read a great deal on the subject would truly understand all angles, and I don't believe that is AMP's target audience.


Quoting 
The incidents of their arrogance and unethical behavior pop up constantly.

For those that aren't aware,...do some digging around on the forum re AMP. AMP taking legal action against futures.io (formerly BMT) is the tip of the ice berg.

I hope more people do their homework when selecting a broker.

Given recent history of MFG and PFG where funds were lost, and then more recent NFA actions with Vision (FCM) as well as Global Futures (IB, Global clears thru AMP), traders should not take any chances when it comes to their broker. I hope ultimately that we will see some form of insurance like SIPC but for futures. That may be wishful thinking.

I hope everyone is taking notice. And I hope everyone has read all the public documents about the AMP lawsuit so they can reach their own conclusions about the merits of their lawsuit.

Mike

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  #210 (permalink)
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AMP expressed in a global mail targeted to their clients base that the decision from Ninja to restrict the supported technology / broker list was a regressive decision. There must be much more behind the scenes but were they also smacked down for expressing a contradictory opinion publicly ?

Whatever the internal brainstorming, I'm one of those who select their broker for a various and complete array of reasons, then I pick Ninja over other platforms eventually if choice is offered but this is not the decision point. It seems illogical and unprofessional to me to pick the broker the other way around, based on the platform only or mostly.
I have friends 3rd party partners with Ninja who now fear they will lose business if clients don't follow. I hope this strategic move will work out for Ninja in the end, sincerely, and that quality partners come in okay number and diversity.

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  #211 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
...
Given recent history of MFG and PFG where funds were lost, and then more recent NFA actions with Vision (FCM) as well as Global Futures (IB, Global clears thru AMP), traders should not take any chances when it comes to their broker. I hope ultimately that we will see some form of insurance like SIPC but for futures. That may be wishful thinking.

I hope everyone is taking notice. And I hope everyone has read all the public documents about the AMP lawsuit so they can reach their own conclusions about the merits of their lawsuit.

Mike

@Big Mike , given your comment, i know for a fact that Optimus/Mattz is a good broker but Optimus uses Vision as FCM. Does it mean that you put optimus and Vision on the same level?

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  #212 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
@Big Mike , given your comment, i know for a fact that Optimus/Mattz is a good broker but Optimus uses Vision as FCM. Does it mean that you put optimus and Vision on the same level?

I really cannot imagine that Mike meant it that way, and as I already mentioned in another thread, I can sleep well as long as Matt doesn't advise me to change anything...

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #213 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
@Big Mike , given your comment, i know for a fact that Optimus/Mattz is a good broker but Optimus uses Vision as FCM. Does it mean that you put optimus and Vision on the same level?

I like Optimus Futures and @mattz a lot and think he does a lot of good in the industry. But he clears through Vision, and with the recent NFA action, it means that will be changing. The relationship between FCM and IB is important. So even if @mattz is fantastic, an important part of his business relies on Vision which has just had a big hit to their reputation. I don't personally believe funds are at risk over what has happened, but I do believe the industry as a whole should do better and be more transparent.

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  #214 (permalink)
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Daytrader999 View Post
I really cannot imagine that Mike meant it that way, and as I already mentioned in another thread, I can sleep well as long as Matt doesn't advise me to change anything...

Thank you for your trust. You can also look at these factors when it comes to FCMs:
1) Assets under management 2) Excess Net Capital
The term "transparency" is being thrown here, so there you go: https://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@financialdataforfcms/documents/file/fcmdata0514.pdf

Matt

THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING. PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT INDICATIVE OF FUTURE RESULTS.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #215 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
You can also look at these factors when it comes to FCMs:
1) Assets under management 2) Excess Net Capital
The term "transparency" is being thrown here, so there you go: https://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@financialdataforfcms/documents/file/fcmdata0514.pdf

I certainly agree those factors have importance, for instance wanting to avoid an FCM that has very little excess capital. But I don't think the reverse (large excess) means they are good and/or safe. Most are, sure, but it isn't a given. Just look at past failures and what they showed on this report right before they imploded.

I think that's why it is even more important to get a feel for how a company is being run. Management is what is really important, and they set the tone for what is acceptable business practices in their organization.

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  #216 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I certainly agree those factors have importance, for instance wanting to avoid an FCM that has very little excess capital. But I don't think the reverse (large excess) means they are good and/or safe. Most are, sure, but it isn't a given. Just look at past failures and what they showed on this report right before they imploded.

I think that's why it is even more important to get a feel for how a company is being run. Management is what is really important, and they set the tone for what is acceptable business practices in their organization.

Mike

I am not here to defend anyone, rather to say that I want to stand by those who have helped me.
Our communications are with the operation inside VFM, and these people have been incredibly helpful to us when it comes to tech support. We have applied the same philosophy when people were going nuts on Ninja during the Ninja debacle with the BigTick. We stick by those who helped us! Maybe some should apply this philosophy in their belief system and not justify it on the old "business is business".

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #217 (permalink)
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Daytrader999 View Post
I really cannot imagine that Mike meant it that way, and as I already mentioned in another thread, I can sleep well as long as Matt doesn't advise me to change anything...

I recently withdrew my funds from my account through Matt for personal reasons. But now that I ready to get back to trading I refunded my account even though Matt clears through Vision. I too have complete confidence that Matt will do everything possible to secure my money.

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  #218 (permalink)
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sctrader View Post
I recently withdrew my funds from my account through Matt for personal reasons. But now that I ready to get back to trading I refunded my account even though Matt clears through Vision. I too have complete confidence that Matt will do everything possible to secure my money.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, however your funds are segregated at Vision. Just as an FYI, post the PFG scenario today the regulators have direct electronic access to check account balances for segregation. We at Optimus sent funds in and out as per customers requests without delay or any issue.
Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #219 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
AMP is still listed on our new ninjatraderecosystem.com site:

NinjaTrader Ecosystem | NinjaScript Broker Partners

@NinjaTrader

I could not find amp on this website. Looks like after 15th July, we will not have much choices. only six brokers are listed here. From them clear is in different language, I could not understand. I checked thoroughly ib and gain capital, nowhere ninjatrader is mentioned. So not much choices we can have? So is it true that after 15th July, if we want ninjatrader only through these six brokers and ninjatrader itself it will be available?

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  #220 (permalink)
Salt Lake City Utah/United States
 
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@NinjaTrader

This is probably unfair to ask, but I am going to ask anyway in an effort to see if I can get to a warm and fuzzy place. During the Mirus/Zenfire mess, Mirus did a very poor job of handling things. They did not answer their phone. They did not answer e-mails and if they did it was a week or more delay and then it was just a form letter instead of something that answered the actually e-mail sent. After a bit they did not even answer the phone on their trade desk. The question I have is are the people that made the decision to handle things in this poor manner still there? If they are, how do I know that the next major problem will not be handled in the same manner?

Your honest response would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

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  #221 (permalink)
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I am bummed why NT would take away broker choices. When it was not a problem before why now??

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  #222 (permalink)
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I am bummed why NT would take away broker choices. When it was not a problem before why now??

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Its because they dont want to have so many brokers now.

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  #223 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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MoreYummy View Post
Its because they dont want to have so many brokers now.

That smells of the start of a monopoly

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  #224 (permalink)
Como Italy
 
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I think of it as akin to Amazon's moves in book-selling, including the Kindle business: leverage your market share to squeeze everyone else's margins and increase your own dominance.

There are clear benefits for 'consumers' in both price and ease of access, but there's a real price to pay in the decimation of local booksellers, small independent publishers, specific local cultures, and general homogenization.

I expect something similar will occur as a result of what Ray referred to as the trading industry's move toward 'consolidation.'

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  #225 (permalink)
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"Unlisting" seriously competitive discount brokerages doesn´t sound to me like being in the traders´ interests, in the long run.

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  #226 (permalink)
Working on my LCD tan
 
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TraderLJW View Post
@NinjaTrader

This is probably unfair to ask, but I am going to ask anyway in an effort to see if I can get to a warm and fuzzy place. During the Mirus/Zenfire mess, Mirus did a very poor job of handling things. They did not answer their phone. They did not answer e-mails and if they did it was a week or more delay and then it was just a form letter instead of something that answered the actually e-mail sent. After a bit they did not even answer the phone on their trade desk. The question I have is are the people that made the decision to handle things in this poor manner still there? If they are, how do I know that the next major problem will not be handled in the same manner?

Your honest response would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

I asked a similar question a few pages back. The response from Ray was pretty clear. Some butts got kicked and some no longer work there. He has also implemented a similar support setup in the brokerage as they have been using for platform support. Having used the platform support a few times, it works well. A lot of questions get answered in the webinar if you haven't watched it.

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  #227 (permalink)
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TraderLJW View Post
@NinjaTrader

This is probably unfair to ask, but I am going to ask anyway in an effort to see if I can get to a warm and fuzzy place. During the Mirus/Zenfire mess, Mirus did a very poor job of handling things. They did not answer their phone. They did not answer e-mails and if they did it was a week or more delay and then it was just a form letter instead of something that answered the actually e-mail sent. After a bit they did not even answer the phone on their trade desk. The question I have is are the people that made the decision to handle things in this poor manner still there? If they are, how do I know that the next major problem will not be handled in the same manner?

Your honest response would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

Very fair to ask. I answered this question in post #98.


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  #228 (permalink)
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Samm View Post
@NinjaTrader

I could not find amp on this website. Looks like after 15th July, we will not have much choices. only six brokers are listed here. From them clear is in different language, I could not understand. I checked thoroughly ib and gain capital, nowhere ninjatrader is mentioned. So not much choices we can have? So is it true that after 15th July, if we want ninjatrader only through these six brokers and ninjatrader itself it will be available?


An excerpt From my response in post #174:


Existing NinjaTrader platform users who purchased before the 15th of July will always have access to the brokerage technologies that are currently supported providing them with mobility to broker where they wish now and in the future. New clients after July 15th will still have brokerage choice based on the refined list publicly listed here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners. It is also important to understand that we will continue to explore and enter into strategic brokerage relationships in the future.

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  #229 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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[QUOTE=NinjaTrader;420511]
It is important to know that NinjaTrader will release server side ATM strategies, server side simulation, mobile trading interface and other features sometime in 2015. These important features are exclusive to NinjaTrader Brokerage. Clients with a NinjaTrader Brokerage account prior to the release of these platform advancements are guaranteed NOT to have any price increase to access these features.[/QUOTE @NinjaTrader
Why do you not guarantee this price feature to ALL your long standing customers who own lifetime licences, irrelevant to the date of owning an account with NJ Brokerage. This would show your dedication to your customer base who have been so loyal over the years.

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  #230 (permalink)
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Clients with a NinjaTrader Brokerage account prior to the release of these platform advancements are guaranteed NOT to have any price increase to access these features.

Sounds like those who use NT via another broker arrangement should anticipate an increase in what they pay which will then encourage those customers to switch their account o NT brokerage, right? Please correct me otherwise.

For the record, I am not an NT user and am currently in the process of investigating/researching brokerages to open a new account and switch from ThinkorSwim.

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  #231 (permalink)
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Rithmic is officially available through NinjaTrader Brokerage. You can purchase platform licenses from our website however, accounts may take a few days to set up.

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Sounds like those who use NT via another broker arrangement should anticipate an increase in what they pay which will then encourage those customers to switch their account o NT brokerage, right? Please correct me otherwise.

NinjaTrader has not raised it's platform pricing (not even for inflation) for 7+ years. We will release new advanced platform features exclusive to our brokerage in 2015. Any NinjaTrader brokerage clients will be protected from any potential price increase as a result of the introduction of these new features.

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@NinjaTrader
Why do you not guarantee this price feature to ALL your long standing customers who own lifetime licences, irrelevant to the date of owning an account with NJ Brokerage. This would show your dedication to your customer base who have been so loyal over the years.

Thanks for the suggestion it is a good idea and I will strongly consider it.

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  #234 (permalink)
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Thanks for the suggestion it is a good idea and I will strongly consider it.

Thank you, will follow and wait for your positive decision.

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  #235 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader has not raised it's platform pricing (not even for inflation) for 7+ years. We will release new advanced platform features exclusive to our brokerage in 2015. Any NinjaTrader brokerage clients will be protected from any potential price increase as a result of the introduction of these new features.


Thank you for taking the time to respond. You make a very fair point about no price increases for 7+ years. So, I think I should better articulate my concern.

It seems to be that intentionally or unintentionally, you guys are going the way of creating ecosystem whereby clients using NT through you guys will be treated differently than those who use NT through another brokerage. Putting commissions aside, this could take the form of different pricing structures for the platform, different versions or features of the platform, etc.?

It just seems to me, and if I am wrong please correct me, that the eventual intentional goal or likely outcome will be the shepherding of all NT users towards the NT brokerage. It seems to me that inevitably the buying decision NT users with other brokerages will inevitably face will be along the lines of:

Why stay with my current broker when I have to pay a higher fee to use the platform?
Why stay with my current broker when the version of NT they offer does not include the x, y and z features exclusively offered by NT brokerage?

Are these questions and concerns of mine misplaced?

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  #236 (permalink)
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I have a question that I have not found an answer for. If I had an active Mirus account as of January 2014 clearing through RJ'Obrien (not Dorman), do I need to submit a new application at Ninjatrader, or can the Mirus account be re-activated? If so, I assume I would have to contact Ninjatrader brokerage to obtain my Dorman account # (assuming it exists).

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  #237 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
NinjaTrader has not raised it's platform pricing (not even for inflation) for 7+ years. We will release new advanced platform features exclusive to our brokerage in 2015. Any NinjaTrader brokerage clients will be protected from any potential price increase as a result of the introduction of these new features.

@NinjaTrader,

Does that protection include all live license holders or is limited to NT brokerage customers and account holders?

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Thank you for taking the time to respond. You make a very fair point about no price increases for 7+ years. So, I think I should better articulate my concern.

It seems to be that intentionally or unintentionally, you guys are going the way of creating ecosystem whereby clients using NT through you guys will be treated differently than those who use NT through another brokerage. Putting commissions aside, this could take the form of different pricing structures for the platform, different versions or features of the platform, etc.?

We value all of our clients and do not discriminate between them regardless of if they are a paying user, use our software for free or have a brokerage account with us. All users receive the same high level of service we have built a reputation for. Commissions aside, NinjaTrader Brokerage clients will have an advantage in that:
  • They will receive both platform and brokerage support from a single source
  • They will have access to features only made possible by owning the brokerage. I believe that as a platform provider, we need to provide our clients with a seamless trading experience between desktop and mobile. I also believe that moving desktop features to the server such as ATM strategies and simulation will be extremely well received by traders. I could not deliver on this vision as a standalone platform provider, it was technically and economically unfeasible. It can only be done by controlling both the brokerage and the technology which was one of many reasons for acquiring Mirus Futures. I discuss in much greater detail in my July 2nd webinar.

We have no plans on changing our pricing at this time. In our 10+ year history, we have always grandfathered in pricing and features for existing clients. We still have clients that pay us $20 per month...the price of NinjaTrader Version 1 in July of 2003! My references to price guarantees is simply to re-enforce a policy we have operated under since our inception.

I don't feel you should have any concerns.

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  #239 (permalink)
Berlin Germany /Alicante Spain
 
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Big Mike View Post
....
....
and then more recent NFA actions with Vision (FCM) as well as Global Futures (IB, Global clears thru AMP), traders should not take any chances when it comes to their broker.

Dear Mike,
as I am a costumer of Global as IB (but NOT cleared thru AMP but another (I think serious) broker) .. could you give a link to these NFA actions.
Thanks ))

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  #240 (permalink)
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resist View Post
Dear Mike,
as I am a costumer of Global as IB (but NOT cleared thru AMP but another (I think serious) broker) .. could you give a link to these NFA actions.
Thanks ))

Search for Global Futures and for Vision Financial on futures.io (formerly BMT). There are threads reviewing those brokerages, and threads contain links to the NFA actions.

Mike

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  #241 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
We value all of our clients and do not discriminate between them regardless of if they are a paying user, use our software for free or have a brokerage account with us. All users receive the same high level of service we have built a reputation for. Commissions aside, NinjaTrader Brokerage clients will have an advantage in that:
  • They will receive both platform and brokerage support from a single source
  • They will have access to features only made possible by owning the brokerage. I believe that as a platform provider, we need to provide our clients with a seamless trading experience between desktop and mobile. I also believe that moving desktop features to the server such as ATM strategies and simulation will be extremely well received by traders. I could not deliver on this vision as a standalone platform provider, it was technically and economically unfeasible. It can only be done by controlling both the brokerage and the technology which was one of many reasons for acquiring Mirus Futures. I discuss in much greater detail in my July 2nd webinar.

We have no plans on changing our pricing at this time. In our 10+ year history, we have always grandfathered in pricing and features for existing clients. We still have clients that pay us $20 per month...the price of NinjaTrader Version 1 in July of 2003! My references to price guarantees is simply to re-enforce a policy we have operated under since our inception.

I don't feel you should have any concerns.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions.

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  #242 (permalink)
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dsherman View Post
I have a question that I have not found an answer for. If I had an active Mirus account as of January 2014 clearing through RJ'Obrien (not Dorman), do I need to submit a new application at Ninjatrader, or can the Mirus account be re-activated? If so, I assume I would have to contact Ninjatrader brokerage to obtain my Dorman account # (assuming it exists).

Most Mirus accounts held at RJOBrien were transferred to Dorman, which means you likely have an account already setup and would be available to use. However, it is best to email brokeragesupport@ninjatrader.com so they can help identify if you need to submit a new application or not.

Risk Disclosure: Futures and forex trading involves significant risk of loss and is not appropriate for everyone.
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  #243 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
Very fair to ask. I answered this question in post #98.


@NinjaTrader Thank you for your reply. I had read that post, but I thought the parent company was a little far away from the day to day operations. So am I to conclude from that post, that the CEO of Mirus's parent company is the one responsible for the poor decisions of how to handle the mess? I would have thought that someone inside Mirus itself would have been responsible. Most companies I know try to hide things from the parent company until they are forced to reveal it. Not the way I like to do business, but that does seem to be the norm in today's world. Not looking for names, just wanted to know that the same poor decisions would not be made in the future. But your prior post did say that you are now responsible and you assured us it would not happen again. So I guess I am just being anal and looking to increase my comfort zone. Thanks for you time.

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TraderLJW View Post
@NinjaTrader Thank you for your reply. I had read that post, but I thought the parent company was a little far away from the day to day operations. So am I to conclude from that post, that the CEO of Mirus's parent company is the one responsible for the poor decisions of how to handle the mess? I would have thought that someone inside Mirus itself would have been responsible. Most companies I know try to hide things from the parent company until they are forced to reveal it. Not the way I like to do business, but that does seem to be the norm in today's world. Not looking for names, just wanted to know that the same poor decisions would not be made in the future. But your prior post did say that you are now responsible and you assured us it would not happen again. So I guess I am just being anal and looking to increase my comfort zone. Thanks for you time.

Yes you are to conclude that. In any organizational structure, the buck stops somewhere and that "somewhere" is now me. I am here answering the hard questions and being held accountable in a public forum...You will find that I have always done this since day #1 of NinjaTrader. No hiding here.

Thanks for your question.

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aligator View Post
@NinjaTrader,

Does that protection include all live license holders or is limited to NT brokerage customers and account holders?

@perryg asked of LifeTime license holders would be included. I responded that its a good idea that I would strongly consider.

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It's a bit sad to see what the retail futures industry has come to... definitely smells like a monopoly in the making, but I am unconvinced that 'force' is the best route. I think it's much more organic if it's a matter of survival of the fittest -- that is, let "all" the brokers offer Ninja, just as before. Ultimately, if NinjaTraderBrokerage is the best, they would win out anyway... it would just be a matter of time. However, based on how Matt's company (Optimus via Vision Financial Markets) was just booted, along with DeepDiscountTrading and others, it's definitely sad. Clients didn't deserve this -- we should always have a choice. I understand old clients are unaffected, but there shouldn't be this type of discrimination between new vs. old clients. We're all Ninja clients and for a good reason -- it's a good charting and simple-to-use platform that has earned high marks. Forbidding competition isn't kosher, in my opinion, but we all have a choice: to keep using NT or to switch platforms. In this specific case, I prefer to use a different platform after seeing the unjustified actions taken against my favorite broker Optimus. I also have an AMP account and understand that they will be affected too come March 2015 unless NinjaTrader reconsiders. Also a bit bizarre, considering AMP and its IB Global Futures is perhaps their biggest source of customers. It's indeed like Amazon, as someone noted here earlier, but at least Amazon sells the Kindle in retail stores such as BestBuy. By the look of things, within a year, Ninja will only be available in 1 place -- is this a prudent business decision? I have my doubts, but time will tell.

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For those claiming monopoly, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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  #248 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
For those claiming monopoly, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro


@Big Mike maybe better way to say it is NT moving towards a "closed ecosystem" that they completely control. If they do a good job it is not necessarily a bad thing. Apple is an example of a closed system. I think the struggle for some including me is we could end up with less choice from a brokerage perspective. From a customer perspective that choice has allowed us to kick the bad brokers to the side and go with a broker we felt good about. That being said it remains to be seen whether this will be good or bad. From the webinars I see why they feel the need to do it and can't argue with some of their business logic.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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liquidcci View Post
@Big Mike maybe better way to say it is NT moving towards a "closed ecosystem" that they completely control. If they do a good job it is not necessarily a bad thing. Apple is an example of a closed system. I think the struggle for some including me is we could end up with less choice from a brokerage perspective. From a customer perspective that choice has allowed us to kick the bad brokers to the side and go with a broker we felt good about. That being said it remains to be seen whether this will be good or bad. From the webinars I see why they feel the need to do it and can't argue with some of their business logic.

Simple, if you like the product use it, if not don't.

TradeStation could use some competition and this is the way to get there. NT needs to become a bigger player in retail.

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  #250 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Simple, if you like the product use it, if not don't.

TradeStation could use some competition and this is the way to get there. NT needs to become a bigger player in retail.

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro

I 100% agree. But for me have thousands of dollars and hours invested in NT so not so simple to change platforms. I don't want to go through the process of switching platforms and recoding etc... So my hope is NT does this right and is a moot issue. I am more open than I was to see where it goes than I was initially. If ends up not being a good thing I can always find another platform even if it is a pain.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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liquidcci View Post
I 100% agree. But for me have thousands of dollars and hours invested in NT so not so simple to change platforms. I don't want to go through the process of switching platforms and recoding etc... So my hope is NT does this right and is a moot issue. I am more open than I was to see where it goes than I was initially. If ends up not being a good thing I can always find another platform even if it is a pain.

Understood. But trading is always evolving, you can't expect static expenses on something crucial like the platform. Buy what you need today knowing it may change tomorrow.

You can find other C# based platforms so your time investment is secure.

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  #252 (permalink)
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MoscowOnHudson View Post
In this specific case, I prefer to use a different platform after seeing the unjustified actions taken against my favorite broker Optimus.

I appreciate your good words and your willingness to help. This by the way, will be the final post about Optimus and Ninja. I don't want to kidnap this thread, but we keep on being mentioned.
We made it very clear how we feel here:

We have made all efforts to stay a partner up until today, but unfortunately we were declined.

In order for two parties to do business, both parties have to be aligned on principles and values.
Sadly, we are not sharing them at this point because "economics" is taking precedence at this point and not the value of the partner. This is not to imply anyone is mean, rather this is the reality that NinjaTrader is facing their math, IMHO.

As a final note, I am overwhelmed by everyone's generosity, willingness to help, and knowing how much you appreciate what we try to do for you! It speaks volume of your nature. We will make progress posts on the Optimus thread.

Matt

THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #253 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
Rithmic is officially available through NinjaTrader Brokerage. You can purchase platform licenses from our website however, accounts may take a few days to set up.

Just a suggestion, I think it would be prudent to wait to have your account approved first before you purchase the license.

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  #254 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
Rithmic is officially available through NinjaTrader Brokerage. You can purchase platform licenses from our website however, accounts may take a few days to set up.

Where is the detail of Rithmic?

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  #255 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
I talked to Stage 5 they are suppose to be working on providing Ninjatrader in the near future.

It appears some brokers are working to get into the ecosystem.

Stage 5 is now clearing through AMP Global until March 2015.

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tturner86 View Post
Stage 5 is now clearing through AMP Global until March 2015.

I believe you can still choose Dorman with Stage 5. At least I certainly hope. Maybe you can check and let us know.

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Big Mike View Post
I believe you can still choose Dorman with Stage 5. At least I certainly hope. Maybe you can check and let us know.

Mike

My understanding is after July 15th their deal with Dorman was dead. I waited until today to get an answer on Ninja with Stage 5 and that is what I was told today. I have sent an email asking if AMP is the only option.

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  #258 (permalink)
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MoreYummy View Post
Where is the detail of Rithmic?

It's now listed in the Data Providers section of their website.

Ninjatrader -- I know this has been requested on your forum beofore, but please consider looking further into implementing server-side OCO support for Rithmic in your software. This should be beneficial for both customers and your brokerage by allowing for safer trades.

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Haverchuck View Post
Ninjatrader -- I know this has been requested on your forum beofore, but please consider looking further into implementing server-side OCO support for Rithmic in your software. This should be beneficial for both customers and your brokerage by allowing for safer trades.

Ray already said it was implemented in NT8 with the new Rithmic API.

Mike

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  #260 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
My understanding is after July 15th their deal with Dorman was dead. I waited until today to get an answer on Ninja with Stage 5 and that is what I was told today. I have sent an email asking if AMP is the only option.

I am thinking that if you had a Ninja license prior to July 15 you can still use Dorman instead of AMP.

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Haverchuck View Post
Ninjatrader -- I know this has been requested on your forum beofore, but please consider looking further into implementing server-side OCO support for Rithmic in your software. This should be beneficial for both customers and your brokerage by allowing for safer trades.

Doesnt rithmic already have server side OCO?

NT will have server side on its own software in future.

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  #262 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I am thinking that if you had a Ninja license prior to July 15 you can still use Dorman instead of AMP.

Mike

I should have an answer in the morning.

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  #263 (permalink)
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Quoting 
The only place you can open new NinjaTrader licenses is AMP, which we are the Broker for, or you would have to go to ninja Trader direct.* My best bet is that since we are still the broker, your point of contact, with Ninja through AMP that your services will be held at with Stage 5 should offer you much better service than anywhere else.*
*
Also, we have the S5 Trade Analyzer for Ninja and then you would be able to participate in all client only services at Stage 5 as well. *

Received this morning. Asked if you already had a license if you still have a choice, awaiting that answer. But it does appear that all new ninja licenses have to go through Ninja or AMP.

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  #264 (permalink)
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MoreYummy View Post
Doesnt rithmic already have server side OCO?

NinjaTrader 7 with Rithmic - Supports client side OCO
NinjaTrader 8 with Rithmic- Will support server side OCO

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  #265 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
But it does appear that all new ninja licenses have to go through Ninja or AMP.

This is an incorrect statement.

NinjaTrader users always have choice:
  • For clients who purchased a license prior to July 15th, their choice will always include all brokerage and brokerage technologies that we support.
  • For new clients who purchase after July 15th, their choice includes the brokerages listed here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners in addition to any broker who supports NinjaTrader through CQG technology.

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  #266 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
Received this morning. Asked if you already had a license if you still have a choice, awaiting that answer. But it does appear that all new ninja licenses have to go through Ninja or AMP.

Yes, if you already had an NT license, you would be able to open your account at Stage 5 Trading as your brokerage firm and we could clear the business at any of the following clearing firms.
*
Dorman
Vision
Crossland
RJ O’Brien
AMP

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  #267 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
This is an incorrect statement.

NinjaTrader users always have choice:
  • For clients who purchased a license prior to July 15th, their choice will always include all brokerage and brokerage technologies that we support.
  • For new clients who purchase after July 15th, their choice includes the brokerages listed here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners in addition to any broker who supports NinjaTrader through CQG technology.

That statement is in reference to opening a new Ninja Account with Stage 5. Either you clear through AMP, or you have to choose from the new Ninja Trader ecosystem of brokers.

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  #268 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
That statement is in reference to opening a new Ninja Account with Stage 5. Either you clear through AMP, or you have to choose from the new Ninja Trader ecosystem of brokers.

I think this statement is in fact correct, from what I've read so far on the Ninja Trader website. In fact their own link says it all: NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners

These are the only brokers that are now supported for new licenses. So what happens to our tried and true faithful brokers like Optimus? Optimus has been a pioneer in adopting new trading technologies like Rithmic, before anyone else was using Rithmic. The question is, where is innovation going to come from? When one platform company takes over brokerages, and then starts limiting brokerage options, you then see the issue. It may become insular and unresponsive to customer needs.

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Just approved for a Ninjatrader account in less then two days.

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  #270 (permalink)
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tradetree View Post

Now Ninja Trader is acting like Microsoft and building a big wall around themselves. The question is, where is innovation going to come from? When one platform gets so big that it takes over brokerages, and then starts limiting brokerage options, you then see the writing on the wall. It becomes insular and unresponsive to customer needs.

You would think the MBA students would give them better advice, as this path has been trodden many times.

I guess it is easy jump out there with those comments but what facts do you have to back that up? I am curious to read up on one example since this has been trodden many times. I really couldn't find one with a few google searches.

I am not sure I would agree that this is a bad move for Ninjatrader. There are many successful platforms that only work with one broker. Cutting back on the brokers supported could strengthen the platform. Over the years I have used a lot of different trading platforms (not specific to a certain market) and have always felt the most stable ones were proprietary to a broker.

Although it is ironic that you list Tradestation as one of your favorite platforms. I haven't looked in a while but would guess that the number of brokers they support are small. Certainly not supported by Optimus.

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  #271 (permalink)
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wirechild View Post
I guess it is easy jump out there with those comments but what facts do you have to back that up? I am curious to read up on one example since this has been trodden many times. I really couldn't find one with a few google searches.

I am not sure I would agree that this is a bad move for Ninjatrader. There are many successful platforms that only work with one broker. Cutting back on the brokers supported could strengthen the platform. Over the years I have used a lot of different trading platforms (not specific to a certain market) and have always felt the most stable ones were proprietary to a broker.

Although it is ironic that you list Tradestation as one of your favorite platforms. I haven't looked in a while but would guess that the number of brokers they support are small. Certainly not supported by Optimus.

Unless you know some history I do not, Tradestation was always a platform based brokerage. So you knew upfront, and brokers also knew upfront where things stood. The issue is not in being a platform - broker combo, but in how you presented yourself and sold yourself in the trading community.

Brokers need platforms for their clients to trade. Reducing the number of platforms available can only hurt the consumer in the long run. But I do hope this turns out well for everyone.

And what are you referring to in terms of "back that up"? I gave you NT's own link. Click the link.

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SierraChart View Post
Server-side OCO and bracket orders for Rithmic through Optimus Futures will be supported by Sierra Chart in August 2014.

Server-side OCO is already supported with CQG and others and bracket support will also come out in August 2014 for CQG as well . And Interactive Brokers. There is no need to do this by owning a brokerage. It only requires good cooperation between the front and backend trading platform providers if necessary.

LOL this is hardly the place to promote sierra chart. it's about ninja trader.

and please don't start the nonsense about front and backend again. I'm very confident ninja trader knows what they are doing. they certainly don't need your advice.

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  #273 (permalink)
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Some additional points to add:

1. Ninjatrader has zero obligation, moral or otherwise to continue a partnership with Optimus or any other broker.

2.The loyalty argument is weak. Partnerships are supposed to be two sided. In strict revenue terms I'd bet the brokers benefited far more from their clients using Ninjatrader than Ninjatrader received using the brokers. Furthermore none offered ninjatrader exclusively so I'm not sure what the brokers have to complain about.

3. The objective of Ninjatrader is to maximize it's return on its Mirus investment for its shareholders not the shareholders of Optimus or anybody else. This is business not Socialist charity.

4. If Optimus or other brokers lose a high proportion of their revenue due to this change then this is the fault of the brokers not Ninjatrader. Business 101, ensure your revenue sources are diversified and not concentrated in one/or two areas. In fact I'd suggest Ninjatrader would prefer to have even fewer brokers and will probably cut this down in due course. The problem with a very small pool of brokers makes the multi-broker license a tougher sell plus existing license holders would probably ask for partial refunds. Every broker on the eco system list is now a competitor. Slowly this list will probably dwindle as Ninjatrader move away from the multibroker license model to focusing on growing the brokerage revenue.

5. Ninjatrader should be commended with this Mirus acquisition. The Big tick/Zenfire screwup virtually destroyed the value of the Mirus brand. The resulted in an opportunity for Ninjatrader and probably paid less than 50% of the market value prior to the Big tick/Zenfire screw up.

6. From my own experiences with the Ninjatrader forum I rate their customer service 10 out of 10 in every respect. Following the settling in period and termination of poor performing Mirus personnel the same level of service can be expected by Ninjatrader brokerage. Of course this remains to be seen.

7. As Ninjatrader brokerage gains traction and if service levels prove to be superior or at least equal to other brokers, there will likely be a significant migration from other retail brokers (such as Optimus and AMP and others) to Ninjatrader brokerage. Firms who are heavily reliant on generating revenue from existing Ninjatrader customers will either have to cut their fees to match Ninjatrader or risk losing their existing Ninjatrader users to Ninjtrader brokerage. Some may not survive.

8. A key benefit of Ninjatrader providing both brokerage and platform services is it cuts down third party software risk. Currently if a system glitch occurs and the trader loses money, the broker often blames the platform vendor and in turn the vendor blames the broker. In most cases it's the trader who ends up carrying the loss. At least with platform the provider and broker under the same ownership risks are lessened as there is only one party to point the finger.

9. The other key benefit is server side OCO. Once server side OCO is implemented and, apart from financial risk diversification there are even fewer reasons to use other brokers. I'd like to see this implemented sooner than later. I think next year is too late to get this moving. For one, I'm sick of using the IB TWS for overnight trades as I simply cannot take the risk of my system going down in the middle of the night, the empire state building being bombed and waking up with naked positions and probably a naked bank account.

10. Despite the attractiveness of NinjaTrader brokerage and commissions structure, standard risk management principles must still apply. Never put your entire account with NinjaTrader brokerage. At the end of the day we are still exposed to Dorman. As we know FCMs are a "black hole" of mystery. Generally we only know there is a problem once they go under.

11. Our supposed protector, the NFA continues to be an incompetent organization in my opinion and appears more concerned with protecting its members than protecting traders. There needs to a top to bottom restructuring of that organization.

Irrespective of whether the NFA has the systems in place to monitor the segregated bank accounts there is no guarantee they will do their job properly. There is further evidence of continued incompetence in the Vision debacle. From the press release on their website.

NFA bars Connecticut futures commission merchant Vision Financial Markets LLC, Virginia commodity trading advisor Ace Investment Strategists LLC and its principal, Yu-Dee Chang from membership

We can see here in Paragraph 2.

The Complaints also charged Vision with facilitating Ace's actions. The Complaint states that this activity took place over a three-year period, and that Vision was in a position to detect and stop the abuses.

and here in Paragraph 3.

As stated in NFA's Complaint, Vision has had a long history of supervisory issues during its tenure as an NFA Member. It has been the subject of four prior NFA Complaints — three of which charged the firm with failing to diligently supervise various aspects of the firm's operations

This shows how the NFA is more concerned protecting its members than protecting the interests of traders. The NFA let this go on for 3 years with no less than 4 prior NFA complaints. They should adopt a zero tolerance policy in this regard. One strike and they are out. Furthermore we see:

Vision's owners, Robert Boshnack and Howard Rothman, were not named in the September 2013 Complaint and have announced their intentions to form a new FCM called High Ridge Futures LLC (High Ridge). If High Ridge applies for membership, NFA will conduct a thorough fitness examination.

Zero accountability for the owners further illustrating the lack of independence of the NFA.

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  #274 (permalink)
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@NinjaTrader

1. What guaranteed timeline (if any) do you put on raising commissions? Is this an "introductory offer" and you intend to raise the commission rates once you have secured a critical mass of ninjatrader platform traders from other competitor brokerages?

2. How much due diligence did you do on Mirus? Was there anything we need to be concerned about?

3. Did you do background checks on key Mirus staff that transferred into key positions within the NinjaTrader brokerage? Are the Mirus transferees responding well to adopting the culture of Ninjatrader?

I'd like to avoid the inconvenience of opening an account at NinjaTrader brokerage only to find the typical dreadful customer service offered by most privately owned futures brokers.

3. How comfortable are you with Dorman? Are you intending to make a change?

4. Do you intend to incorporate prop trading into the brokerage?

5. What, if any additional risk management mechanisms do you intend to put in place to further protect the traders/customers of NinjaTrader brokerage?

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  #275 (permalink)
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where on your website does it says "any broker who supports Ninjatrader through CQG technology ?"

NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners




NinjaTrader View Post
This is an incorrect statement.

NinjaTrader users always have choice:
  • For clients who purchased a license prior to July 15th, their choice will always include all brokerage and brokerage technologies that we support.
  • For new clients who purchase after July 15th, their choice includes the brokerages listed here NinjaTrader Ecosystem | Broker Partners in addition to any broker who supports NinjaTrader through CQG technology.


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  #276 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
If Optimus or other brokers lose a high proportion of their revenue due to this change then this is the fault of the brokers not Ninjatrader. Business 101, ensure your revenue sources are diversified and not concentrated in one/or two areas. .

What you call "Diversified" is rather something that implies "pushing" platforms and making sure that our customers are in different softwares? That stands against my philosophy because I should help a customer based on his true needs and not fill some sales agenda for "diversification.

In lieu of my customers really "fighting" for me, I see that I did the right thing all along. I have zero intentions of changing my philosophy.

Lastly, we do have customers in other platforms that we list on our site, but that was based on customer choice and not our need to "diversify". Those who don't have a preference are always asked questions to make sure its a long term match.

So much for my promises not to post here anymore.

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #277 (permalink)
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djkiwi,
I appreciate your analysis of the acquisition, but you are missing or glossing over a part of the dynamic. We are all customers of NinjaTrader. We purchased this platform because it connected to a long list of brokers. That has been removed (for future customers), so our contract with NinjaTrader has been modified. Even if we are grandfathered in, this has a huge impact on our interests as customers. I have reason to believe, and this is not uninformed, that even the short list of broker-partners will get shorter over time.

So you can theorize about "zero obligation" and "moral" codes, but that is just theory. The reality is that NinjaTrader needs customers, and I have power in this relationship. They have to answer to future customers, who are now going to be increasingly locked in to a single brokerage when they choose this platform.

I have worked with Optimus Futures for years. They too have been customers of NinjaTrader. They promoted the NinjaTrader platform and helped promote Rithmic as a data source. NinjaTrader for years pushed Kinetic, and it was only because of outside brokers like Optimus that Rithmic became such a force in the market-access world.

My point is not that NinjaTrader should act outside their interests, but to act in their interests and continue to work with brokers like Optimus.



djkiwi View Post
Some additional points to add:

1. Ninjatrader has zero obligation, moral or otherwise to continue a partnership with Optimus or any other broker.

2.The loyalty argument is weak. Partnerships are supposed to be two sided. In strict revenue terms I'd bet the brokers benefited far more from their clients using Ninjatrader than Ninjatrader received using the brokers. Furthermore none offered ninjatrader exclusively so I'm not sure what the brokers have to complain about.

3. The objective of Ninjatrader is to maximize it's return on its Mirus investment for its shareholders not the shareholders of Optimus or anybody else. This is business not Socialist charity.

4. If Optimus or other brokers lose a high proportion of their revenue due to this change then this is the fault of the brokers not Ninjatrader. Business 101, ensure your revenue sources are diversified and not concentrated in one/or two areas. In fact I'd suggest Ninjatrader would prefer to have even fewer brokers and will probably cut this down in due course. The problem with a very small pool of brokers makes the multi-broker license a tougher sell plus existing license holders would probably ask for partial refunds. Every broker on the eco system list is now a competitor. Slowly this list will probably dwindle as Ninjatrader move away from the multibroker license model to focusing on growing the brokerage revenue.

[cut]...

.


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  #278 (permalink)
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I have purchased NT for only 1 reason it gives access to multiple brokers. The purpose of buying NT is beaten and the only choice is you continue with limited brokers that will most likely get reduced further as time goes by. I also hold lifetime license of multicharts. I am now a client of NT brokerage. If I get a good service I will stick around else I will use Mc or even give Sierra charts a shot. I have licenses for Mc and mc.net.

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  #279 (permalink)
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You can't understand how good Optimus Futures is if you don't try it. They are not just a broker, they provide me guidance and they worked really hard to find out the best solution. Their dedication is outstanding because they do care about the customers...At that time, I was not even a customer for Optimus, but Matt and its professional team just gave me the best. Wish Ninja and Optimus reach an agreement, if not it would be really sad to have no choice at all.

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  #280 (permalink)
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Jfairtrade View Post
You can't understand how good Optimus Futures is if you don't try it. They are not just a broker, they provide me guidance and they worked really hard to find out the best solution. Their dedication is outstanding because they do care about the customers...At that time, I was not even a customer for Optimus, but Matt and its professional team just gave me the best. Wish Ninja and Optimus reach an agreement, if not it would be really sad to have no choice at all.

This thread is not about Optimus Futures. If you are happy with them, good for you. Stay with them. I've read countless positive reviews of Optimus on this site and have no doubt that Matt and his team are committed to helping their clients. On the other hand, when I spoke with Matt (many months ago), he elected not to be price competitive with my current rates. So I didn't open with him. I don't want a hand-holding broker. What I want from my broker is GREAT fills and really good commissions. And frankly, when you start to really trade, pennies count. You want to pay an extra 20 cents round turn in order to have a broker that is a swell guy? That's a terrible business decision unless you're planning to spend a lot of time getting help or you're a swing trader that doesn't trade often.

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timefreedom View Post
You want to pay an extra 20 cents round turn in order to have a broker that is a swell guy? That's a terrible business decision unless you're planning to spend a lot of time getting help or you're a swing trader that doesn't trade often.

When we started offering Ninja we were at a huge disadvantage because we came many years after it was offered to customers by 2 dominant brokers who controlled the landscape. We could have come to the race with pricing only, but that would not got us here today. We decided to provide reasonable commissions, and specialize in the back end technology we run over Ninja.

We take the time to learn the technology we support, and provide practical advice to traders that use us to bounce of ideas. For example, many times I have advised customers to reduce their frequency, not to over leverage, etc This was practical advice that could save them thousands, not pennies.

Over time I put the resources of our company to find better staff, better software, and explore other resources to help customers. So your money goes back investing into you as a trader.

Over the years I have discussed things with highly capitalized traders, profitable traders and others who have been trading for a long time. They wanted good commissions, but 10 cents per side was not their priority. They have provided me with invaluable information, and I hope to attract traders like them and further hope that our current group of traders will become better at what they do because of the infrastructure we provide.

If you have grown to the point where 10 cents per side makes a difference, then you should consider getting a CME membership. Your broker should help you with that and that could make a much larger difference than 10 cents.

Matt

THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #282 (permalink)
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tradetree View Post
djkiwi,
I appreciate your analysis of the acquisition, but you are missing or glossing over a part of the dynamic. We are all customers of NinjaTrader. We purchased this platform because it connected to a long list of brokers. That has been removed (for future customers), so our contract with NinjaTrader has been modified. Even if we are grandfathered in, this has a huge impact on our interests as customers. I have reason to believe, and this is not uninformed, that even the short list of broker-partners will get shorter over time. They have to answer to future customers, who are now going to be increasingly locked in to a single brokerage when they choose this platform.

This is factually incorrect. Your contract with Ninjatrader has not changed. You are still able to connect to all of the brokers that were in place when you signed up for the lifetime license. In fact it just got better. I'm also a lifetime license holder and now have an additional choice, NinjaTrader brokerage.

The point about new customers is a completely separate issue. It is true, prospective mutli broker NinjaTrader platform customers now have fewer brokers included in the license. The prospect then needs to evaluate whether the smaller pool of brokers satisfies the traders needs.

This is no different to Big Mike changing the terms of the lifetime license. The cost was $20, then $50, now $100. If you want to join as an elite member and you perceive the $100 fee is too much then move on.


Quoting 
I have worked with Optimus Futures for years. They too have been customers of NinjaTrader. They promoted the NinjaTrader platform and helped promote Rithmic as a data source. NinjaTrader for years pushed Kinetic, and it was only because of outside brokers like Optimus that Rithmic became such a force in the market-access world.

My point is not that NinjaTrader should act outside their interests, but to act in their interests and continue to work with brokers like Optimus.

Optimus have never been customers of Ninjatrader. It's the license holders that are the customers. Optimus has been generating revenue from their customers that use the Ninjatrader platform. Optimus was probably perceived as adding limited strategic value to the "new" NinjaTrader which is why they were not selected as an ongoing broker.

I get that you have love for Optimus etc, but Ninjatrader has no obligation to Optimus. In fact, I'm concerned with all the promotion of Optimus in this thread particularly given the continued risks. Optimus could be perceived as a high risk brokerage by the fact that they use Vision as FCM.

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  #283 (permalink)
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About Rithmic now,

1) does it have POPs around the globe to plug automatically to the lowest latency ?

2) is the multiple login at $10 by extra user also available ?

3) will it be demo'able as well ?

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  #284 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
This is factually incorrect. Your contract with Ninjatrader has not changed. You are still able to connect to all of the brokers that were in place when you signed up for the lifetime license. In fact it just got better. I'm also a lifetime license holder and now have an additional choice, NinjaTrader brokerage.

The point about new customers is a completely separate issue. It is true, prospective mutli broker NinjaTrader platform customers now have fewer brokers included in the license. The prospect then needs to evaluate whether the smaller pool of brokers satisfies the traders needs.

This is no different to Big Mike changing the terms of the lifetime license. The cost was $20, then $50, now $100. If you want to join as an elite member and you perceive the $100 fee is too much then move on.



Optimus have never been customers of Ninjatrader. It's the license holders that are the customers. Optimus have been generating revenue from their customers that use the Ninjtrader platform. Optimus adds limited strategic value to the "new" NinjaTrader which is they were not selected as an ongoing broker.

I get that you have love for Optimus etc, but Ninjatrader has no responsibility to Optimus. In fact, I'm concerned with all the promotion of Optimus in this thread particularly given the continued risks. Optimus can currently be viewed as a high risk brokerage by the fact that they use Vision as FCM. Optimus should have given Vision the boot long ago as should the NFA.

Optimus have helped those of us who used NinjaTrader equally if not more than what NinjaTrader did. I am a programmer, C# script writer so my needs are a little higher than the average point and click. Let me decide who provides what value…strategically.

Those of us who want to see NinjaTrader to keep optimus is because we benefitted from their cooperation. They each bring different strengths to the table. Optimus has been a broker for many years and I trust their decisions because brokerage customers are not software customers.

I suggest that you Also look at your own broker Interactive Broker: Finextra: CFTC fines Interactive Brokers $700k for reporting violations

When Zen blew in everyone face, I don’t recall any other broker here on futures.io (formerly BMT) who has helped them as much as Optimus. Mirus was nowhere to be found, and today they will set an example with Ninja for a new brokerage?

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  #285 (permalink)
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tradetree View Post

And what are you referring to in terms of "back that up"? I gave you NT's own link. Click the link.

It appears you edited out part of your original post. But You said "as this path has been trodden many times." I can't find any examples that are similar to what NT is doing. My comment about "back that up" was in reference to that and you failed to mention any examples.

It doesn't matter how Tradestation started, it is a very liked and successful platform with out supporting lots of brokers.

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  #286 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
1. What guaranteed timeline (if any) do you put on raising commissions? Is this an "introductory offer" and you intend to raise the commission rates once you have secured a critical mass of ninjatrader platform traders from other competitor brokerages?

This is not an introductory offer and we have no plans to raise our commissions.


djkiwi View Post
2. How much due diligence did you do on Mirus? Was there anything we need to be concerned about?

We retained both legal and accounting professionals to perform in-depth audits of Mirus Futures. This was an arduous process that spanned several months and in the end, there was nothing to be concerned about allowing us to conclude the deal.


djkiwi View Post
3. Did you do background checks on key Mirus staff that transferred into key positions within the NinjaTrader brokerage? Are the Mirus transferees responding well to adopting the culture of Ninjatrader?

Background checks are required by NFA, so this was completed for all registered brokerage staff. The integration and adoption of the NinjaTrader culture has been going very well.


djkiwi View Post
I'd like to avoid the inconvenience of opening an account at NinjaTrader brokerage only to find the typical dreadful customer service offered by most privately owned futures brokers.

While there were some initial delays in account openings due to the sheer volume of applications after we launched NinjaTrader Brokerage, we remain very focused on delivering the same high-level of customer service clients have come to expect from NinjaTrader.


djkiwi View Post
3. How comfortable are you with Dorman? Are you intending to make a change?

We have had a relationship with Dorman for nearly a decade and they have been a good partner to both Mirus and NinjaTrader during that time. However, we understand the importance of having multiple FCM options and are working on plans to enable that offering.


djkiwi View Post
4. Do you intend to incorporate prop trading into the brokerage?

No.


djkiwi View Post
5. What, if any additional risk management mechanisms do you intend to put in place to further protect the traders/customers of NinjaTrader brokerage?

Managing risk is a critical component of a brokerage operation and we take this seriously. Our ISV partners have built in risk management tools we use in conjunction with our FCM providing a dual layer of risk protection. We intend to complement these tools with internally developed applications that are customized to our processes providing an additional third layer of risk management.

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  #287 (permalink)
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SARdynamite View Post
About Rithmic now,

1) does it have POPs around the globe to plug automatically to the lowest latency ?

2) is the multiple login at $10 by extra user also available ?

3) will it be demo'able as well ?


1. Rithmic does have several data center options which you will be able to configure in NinjaTrader 8.
2. Yes
3. We do not have Rithmic data trials available at this time.

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  #288 (permalink)
Mercer Island WA
 
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Jfairtrade View Post

I suggest that you Also look at your own broker Interactive Broker: Finextra: CFTC fines Interactive Brokers $700k for reporting violations

Interactive Brokers could also be perceived as a high risk broker which is another reason existing NinjaTrader license holders should welcome the opportunity to spread risk to a new brokerage.

Traders using IB face similar risks as MF Global clients i.e. their broker has the ability to re-hypothecate (broker uses customer-pledged collateral) to back their own trades and borrowings. This is perfectly legal under US Federal Reserve Board Regulation T and SEC Rule 15c3-3, whereby a prime broker may re-hypothecate an amount up to 140% of the customer’s liability to the broker.

The problem was MF Global found a loophole in the UK where there is no mandated limit on re-hypothecation. So they re-hypothecated customer collateral many times over to place a heavily leveraged $6 billion sovereign debt bet which turned into a massive loser and put them under.

I'm not suggesting that IB is being reckless like MF Global but my understanding is the UK loophole still exists and who knows what "new and improved" synthetic off balance sheet instrument wall street will invent next to leverage returns at the same time staying ahead of the regulators.

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  #289 (permalink)
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@NinjaTrader

Do you guys send out an email with all valueable information?

If I am not a member in this forum I will never know that Mirus does not exist anymore.

Okay I can see it in the daily statement but I never received any e-mail from my "new" broker.

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Balanar View Post
@NinjaTrader

Do you guys send out an email with all valueable information?

If I am not a member in this forum I will never know that Mirus does not exist anymore.

Okay I can see it in the daily statement but I never received any e-mail from my "new" broker.

Yes, an email was sent to all Mirus Futures account holders on June 30th, 2014. A Mirus Client FAQ is located here - Mirus Client FAQ | NinjaTrader

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  #291 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
1. Rithmic does have several data center options which you will be able to configure in NinjaTrader 8.
.

So the rithmic execution need to use NT software or the old Rithmic software?
Does it have server side OCO?

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MoreYummy View Post
So the rithmic execution need to use NT software or the old Rithmic software?
Does it have server side OCO?

Can you please clarify what you mean by your 1st question? On your second question, NT8 will support Rithmic server side OCO.

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  #293 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
Can you please clarify what you mean by your 1st question? On your second question, NT8 will support Rithmic server side OCO.

There was that trading software from Rithmic for trading on Rithmic engine. So after merge, do we use that or other only use NT software?

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  #294 (permalink)
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NT8 will support server side bracket orders for Rithmic?

* If investing gets too difficult for a seventh grader to understand, the system is needlessly complex
* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
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MoreYummy View Post
There was that trading software from Rithmic for trading on Rithmic engine. So after merge, do we use that or other only use NT software?

NinjaTrader Brokerage offers both Continuum and Rithmic.

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Jonson View Post
NT8 will support server side bracket orders for Rithmic?

NinjaTrader has ATM Strategies which is our proprietary form of automatic bracketing. We do not support any other bracketing concept including Rithmic's. We will however, release server side ATM strategies in the future available to clients of NinjaTrader Brokerage.

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  #297 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
NinjaTrader Brokerage offers both Continuum and Rithmic.

So in other word, i can only use NinjaTrader software to trade with NTbrokerage?

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  #298 (permalink)
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MoreYummy View Post
So in other word, i can only use NinjaTrader software to trade with NTbrokerage?

No that is not true. Try watching the webinar on the subject, all of these questions were covered in detail.

Mike

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  #299 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
NinjaTrader Brokerage offers both Continuum and Rithmic.

@NT Brokerage

What is process to follow if a customer require both data feeds; one as primary and another as backup?
What is the additional rate per RT required for the Rithmic feed?

Cheers...eric
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Big Mike View Post
No that is not true. Try watching the webinar on the subject, all of these questions were covered in detail.

Mike

What webinar? Is there recording?

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