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CME Fee changes 2014, significant impact


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CME Fee changes 2014, significant impact

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  #101 (permalink)
 Dervakon 
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So if I try to understand what Bob said is for somebody who got Ninjatrader for platform and a broker it will have only a fee of 15$ /month, + the increase of the other fee correct ?

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  #102 (permalink)
 bob7123 
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My email to ToS support this AM:
---------------------------------------

Hello,

I have been reading that the CME is planning to charge more for their data feeds. A lot of people seem to be up in arms, but perhaps some or all of it is not warranted.

See for example: CME Group stands by fee hikes as brokers protest - chicagotribune.com

As a practical matter, are there any plans to charge for data in ToS accounts, and/or reduce the number of symbols that have realtime data, or should we expect things to stay as they are?

Thank you very much.

-Bob

ThinkorSwim Representative
Hello Bob,

Thank you for the e-mail and inquiry. I am not aware of any changes in the near future. Please rest assured that should there be any changes to our fees or data subscriptions, we will inform you as soon as possible.

Please feel free to follow up with any additional questions. Thank you.

I don't trade with any frequency with ToS due to their high commissions. (just IRA, etc.) I guess they are hiding the new fees in those higher commissions.


Separately,

Dervakon View Post
So if I try to understand what Bob said is for somebody who got Ninjatrader for platform and a broker it will have only a fee of 15$ /month, + the increase of the other fee correct ?

Dunno what other brokers are doing. I know my trading is my business, I treated it like that and talked to all of the vendors I do business with who might be affected by the CME changes.

If others want to ask what their brokers are doing in 2014/2015 and share the results here, I think people would find that helpful.

-Bob

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  #103 (permalink)
 cory 
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GFIs1 View Post
... ...
GFIs1
who thinks to have understood "THIS CME signal"

I think it is a good time to buy some CME.

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  #104 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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bob7123 View Post
Dunno what other brokers are doing. I know my trading is my business, I treated it like that and talked to all of the vendors I do business with who might be affected by the CME changes.

If others want to ask what their brokers are doing in 2014/2015 and share the results here, I think people would find that helpful.

-Bob

I believe most brokers will be clueless about this until after it is implemented, especially at larger firms where individual brokers will get a mass email about it or have it covered in a meeting basically the day it goes live.

You'll only find better service dealing with the IB's and such on futures.io (formerly BMT), because they have to be "better" in order to survive in this industry. This is one way they can be, education of their brokers.

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  #105 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
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cory View Post
great, it will drive more people to uncharted frontier... Forex.


josh View Post
This has been mentioned several times, and is one alternative. Another would be to position trade stocks/options, even with a <$25K account. You are allowed 3 day trades per 5 day period anyway, so you can take an occasional day trade if so desired. (Or, use a non-margin account but then you have to deal with freeriding, so best to just limit day trades and go margin account)


GFIs1 View Post
... there are more questions than answers.

Facts:
1) CME is monopolist for US futures
2) There are many traders of any size
3) A high liquidity in the markets are attracting more traders
4) Fee pricing tends upwards
5) Uncertainty is obvious for every client

Conclusion:
a) Uncertainty is poison for money markets
b) The fee question for traders is primordial to stay above waters
c) If clients are leaving the boat (forced or unforced) - the liquidity in the market will shrink
d) Shrinking markets lead to less volatility aka less possibilities for good trading chances

What does it mean to me?
Under these premises every "homo oeconomicus" will decide to:
- leave this market / provider much sooner than later (or too late)
- checking for alternative markets - scanning alternatives and discuss them here on futures.io (formerly BMT)
- hop on the new boat sooner than later to profit longer

GFIs1
who thinks to have understood "THIS CME signal"

I talked to a nice lady at DTN iQ. She told me I had some marginal increases with my feed (68 to 70 for core data), some other very minor increases until 2015. This is acceptable. There is a lot of "up in arms" over this at the moment. In 2015, when the waiver is dropped, the fees may go up significantly, even for Non Pros, especially if you have all exchanges (CME, COMEX, NYMEX, ICE, EUREX). It will just add to to sort of like death by a thousand cuts.

The lady also said, quite clearly, that data providers are talking to CME about the waivers. There may be nothing huge for non-pros at all in 2015. Or it maybe massive. It's too early. We must assume the worst is coming either way.

As a business owner, I looked at my futures commissions in November (CME and Eurex combined) were about 3K/month, which is about normal. Most of that already goes to CME, very little stays with the broker. That's why these brokers are going to be the first to slowly get extinct. I think a lot of smaller traders will have an easier time to adjust and adapt to change. Brokers have buildings, expenses, employees, other costs that smaller traders don't have. Brokers will raise costs, this will be inevitable. Even without CME gouging.

The point I trying to make is, as a business - the ones that survive are not the smartest or the strongest, but the ones most adaptive to change.

After PFG raped me of 1/3rd of my capital a couple of years ago. And I watched the corrupt bureaucrats of SEC, CFTC and NFA dilly dally and posture about returning my money to me (a process still undergoing). I had already vowed to change.

In 2012, I had 10% capital in alternative investments (this meant FX to me). Someone mentioned FX is the Wild West or something as dramatic as that. This is a most uneducated view. Sure you retail bucket shops that will rape and hunt your stops on that 50Dollar 500:1 account you opened. But ther are other options. More secure than the futures industry in the US.

What the futures industry is slowly becoming; is a little lethargic. They think capital cannot move. They are wrong. For example - FX can be traded with a exchange (like LMAX), or with a bank (like Barclays) or with an institutional grade liquidity (like Hotpsot FXI) or with DMA Platforms (like cTrader)

But this is not about FX, its about trying to adapt to change. After the PFG debacle, I had accounts with FuturePath, Vision and AMP. And 99% of my capital was in futures. This has been slowly changing, 6months ago, 40% of my capital was not only not in futures, but also not in North America.

As of yesterday, 90% of my capital is out of NA, into FX (and not in bucket shops either). This was simply a response to changing conditions. The futures industry gets away with sanctioned rape because it can. But capital is not stupid. It goes where its allowed to invest and speculate freely. I cannot believe what restrictions were in place when I tried to open a 6figure FX account in Canada. After 30mins on the phone with a clueless and shuffling incompetent Friedberg Rep (FXCM Canada), I hung up and moved all of it overseas.

Done. respond to change, Adapt or die. If trading is business, learn, evolve.

A small futures account still exists trading ES. Not sure it will remain in place at the end of 2014. My point is, learn to adapt. My beef was not just with CME but with actual regulators of the industry. It adds up, fairly or unfairly, to a shrinking pie for me in futures.

And the FX world, is fast getting far more organised, secure and professional than most retailers ever think. They regurgitate nonsense they read on media and message boards. Never doing any research themselves or generating left field thinking on their own

I still believe the eventual costs with this CME hike, have a good chance of not being as bad as it sounds now, at least, not for the profitable traders. For others, with marginal capital and especially for brokers, this is might be bad news.

GFS1 made a good point that futures may lose some of their liquidity as capital re-allocates to other markets, and that it may have more violence and less depth in the order book, and this may make it harder to trade, but again this is not too bad for those either trying to position trade or swing, but bad news for scalpers.

We must be prepared to adapt. My capital doesn't bother to ask questions. It shoots first and asks questions later. to me, the need to survive and be robust (while trying pare costs) is more important that anything else. So I wont have any data feed from DTN iQ into the New Year, My FuurePath account and Vision account are already closed and a small piece retains with AMP. And if that increases its costs next year (as I suspect it will have to), then that maybe on the chopping block as well.

PS - Even with restrictive Canadian legislation (from bureaucrats who all deserve to be shot), its still not as bad as US individuals not being able to move capital freely overseas, But even then, some you Americans may want to look at managed FX in regulated jurisdictions (if individual accounts are not possible).

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  #106 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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The "up in arms" is understandable for some of us like me who are looking at a 25k fee increase next year based on initial data. It looks like this will be lower now, but waiting on CME to get their answers in line.

A $2/month fee increase is not what this is about.

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  #107 (permalink)
 bob7123 
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Big Mike View Post
I believe most brokers will be clueless about this until after it is implemented, especially at larger firms where individual brokers will get a mass email about it or have it covered in a meeting basically the day it goes live.

You'll only find better service dealing with the IB's and such on futures.io (formerly BMT), because they have to be "better" in order to survive in this industry. This is one way they can be, education of their brokers.

Mike

Clearly there is confusion and your bringing this issue to the attention of the futures.io (formerly BMT) members can only help. I and I'm sure others appreciate that.

To give you an update, IQFeed (Robert Carrillo) was unsure about LLC trading. Briefly: "We don’t know. It isn’t addressed in the CME Group Pro/Non-Pro rules, but we are asking for clarification and will advise ASAP."

I also spoke with Anthony Giacomin at Stage 5 Trading. He too said he was waiting for answers. He added that there is a lot of lobbying going on at this time and they are hoping to get a better outcome.

-Bob

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  #108 (permalink)
 Bookworm 
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Something I don't understand. I always understood that equity exchanges made a distinction between pro and non-pro for data charges with the latter being much cheaper. Futures exchanges never had that and charged everyone the same (high) rate. Is CME now following the example of the equity exchanges and allowing non-pro traders to get data at a greatly reduced rate while increasing the data fees for pros? Won't most retail traders qualify as non-pro now? What exactly will they pay under the new plan vs. now?

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  #109 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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Bookworm View Post
Won't most retail traders qualify as non-pro now? What exactly will they pay under the new plan vs. now?

Bookworm,

I think a significant number of retail traders will be paying Pro fees come Jan 2015. Assuming traders qualify as Non-Pro under the CME Group Pro/Non-Pro rules, the other requirement is that they qualify for the current CME Globex waivers program, and maintain that position into 2015.

Traders who are Non-Pro per the CME Group rules, have Globex waivers by the Mar 1, 2014 cutoff, and hold that position through 2014 will be classified as Non-Pro come Jan 2015 and pay reduced Non-Pro exchange fees. Traders who are Pro per the CME Group rules, have Globex waivers by the Mar 1, 2014 cutoff, and hold that position through 2014, will be classified as Pro come Jan 2015 and pay 50% of the published Pro fees.

To qualify for waivers currently, traders need to have CME Globex data feeding a trade-capable software and have a funded account with a broker supporting that software. Not all brokers participate in the current waivers program, and that may be the case come 2015 for Non-Pro qualification. Participating brokers currently verify funded accounts each month for waivers qualification, and they will do so eff Jan 2015 for Non-Pro status qualification.

This is the best info I have currently.

Robert

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  #110 (permalink)
 steve2222 
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Deucalion View Post



But there are other options. More secure than the futures industry in the US.

What the futures industry is slowly becoming; is a little lethargic. They think capital cannot move. They are wrong. For example - FX can be traded with a exchange (like LMAX), or with a bank (like Barclays) or with an institutional grade liquidity (like Hotpsot FXI) or with DMA Platforms (like cTrader)


Hi @Deucalion

Are the other options that are more secure than the futures industry the names you mention in the 2nd paragraph above?

I have often toyed with the idea of exploring the FX offers more thoroughly as it potentially offers better options for someone in my time zone and helps a little bit with risks associated with having funds with an FCM in the US when I am a foreigner.

Like Canada, we have ask to CFD products, but I have steered clear of those as they are mostly market makers and shut you account down or take other steps if you start to beat them on a consistent basis.

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  #111 (permalink)
 Bookworm 
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Perhaps Big Mike could start a poll where everyone can indicate what status they will be under the new rules?

Pro
Non-pro
I use a corporation/LLC to trade

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  #112 (permalink)
 Fritzk 
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What are the criteria to qualify for non-professional subscriber?

1) NON-PROFESSIONAL SUBSCRIBER - Any natural person whom a market data Distributor has determined qualifies as a "Non-Professional Subscriber" and who is not:
(a) Registered or qualified with: the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, any state securities agency, any securities exchange or association, or any commodities or futures contract market or association, nor
(b) Engaged as an "investment advisor" as that term is defined in Section 201(11) of the Investment Advisor's Act of 1940 (whether or not registered or qualified under that Act), nor
(c) Employed by a bank or another organization that is exempt from registration under Federal and/or state securities laws to perform functions that would require him or her to be so registered or qualified if he or she were to perform such functions for an organization not so exempt.
2) Subscriber must be viewing the data via a device capable of routing orders to CME Globex and have an active/capitalized futures account.
3) Subscriber must NOT hold or lease any type of membership at any of CME Group’s DCMs.
4) Any person who does meet the above criteria (1, 2 & 3) is considered a Professional Subscriber.

Source: https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-faq-2014.pdf


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see where trading as a LLC is mentioned.

Or are they considering being employed by your LLC as an "investment advisor" to your company?

Nice thing about this thread is, I now have a list of questions to put towards my broker once they do get back to me.

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  #113 (permalink)
 traderwerks 
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Fritzk View Post

1) NON-PROFESSIONAL SUBSCRIBER - Any natural person whom a market data Distributor has determined qualifies as a "Non-Professional Subscriber" and who is not:

A LLC is a legal person, not a natural person.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #114 (permalink)
 Fritzk 
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traderwerks View Post
A LLC is a legal person, not a natural person.

Thx u

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  #115 (permalink)
 marcopolo1 
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Fritzk View Post
What are the criteria to qualify for non-professional subscriber?

.....
2) Subscriber must be viewing the data via a device capable of routing orders to CME Globex and have an active/capitalized futures account....

Subscriber must be viewing the data via a device capable of routing orders to CME Globex
What does this mean? Have an internet connection? Have a software able to connect directly/(or not?) to CME globex for orders?

Interestingly, there is no restriction on analyzing the data as long you don't look at it (which should refer to charting)...

Also, does 'data' refers to real-time data only, and/or stored data, and/or delayed data?

It seems to me the intend is that non-professional subscriber data should only be use for charting and ordering... but who knows...

What is your interpretation?

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  #116 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
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steve2222 View Post
Hi @Deucalion

Are the other options that are more secure than the futures industry the names you mention in the 2nd paragraph above?

I have often toyed with the idea of exploring the FX offers more thoroughly as it potentially offers better options for someone in my time zone and helps a little bit with risks associated with having funds with an FCM in the US when I am a foreigner.

Like Canada, we have ask to CFD products, but I have steered clear of those as they are mostly market makers and shut you account down or take other steps if you start to beat them on a consistent basis.

@steve2222, CFD's are stupid - a broker will clearly tell you that he is counter party to it. Why bother. Trade Futures instead.

As far as alternative investments are concerned, I had chosen Managed FX. The reasons were following -
  • In the 2 jurisdictions I could open an M-FX account (UK and/or AUS); the FSA (UK) and ASIC (AUS) regulations are stricter than in the US.
  • Neither of the these places have the stupid FIFO regulation that is enforced in Canada/US.
  • None of these places forced me to use that stupid MT4 platform (no broker will tell you but everyone one of them uses a plugin/bridge into that MT4 trade matching stream.) Even IC Markets (AUS), through which I use the cTrader account has an MT4 offering that I do not trust. Brokers making a claim of NDD or DMA or ECN-STP and then offering an MT4 platform is a signal to run the heck away.
  • Because FIFO is not enforced, hedging positions in the same account is possible - this allows a great deal of control of exposure.
  • IF you chose your brokerage carefully, and if you have a decent size account they will be happy to provide you with a list of their liquidity providers including the routing engine to those liquidity providers (for example a 3rd party matching engine like Traiana that matches quotes directly to those banks) - When I asked these questions from brokers in Canada/US they didn't seem too interested in talking to me in plain speak (I have little patience for roundabout answers, and arcane obfuscation, that is generally a tip off)
  • Compounding is easier in FX.

The downside is -
  • In a managed FX account I lose alpha. Returns will not match a good discretionary trading approach. This is a very big downside. Unfortunately after PFG I was forced to re-assess what was important. I don't think I could survive another PFG like event. So I had to make sure that I built some diversification in where my capital was and how it was deployed.

I am not saying this is right for you, but for me, it helped to break down what needed to done to pay the bills and what needed to to be done in generating wealth.

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  #117 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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The most recent news I've heard is that the CME is not going to reconsider the new definition for professional status, which as it is stated today will include LLC's. This is bad news for me...

But maybe in another couple days it will change again, I can only hope.

Mike

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  #118 (permalink)
 tgibbs 
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Big Mike View Post
The most recent news I've heard is that the CME is not going to reconsider the new definition for professional status, which as it is stated today will include LLC's. This is bad news for me...

But maybe in another couple days it will change again, I can only hope.

Mike

That bites the big one ...

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  #119 (permalink)
 dnof 
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Big Mike View Post
The most recent news I've heard is that the CME is not going to reconsider the new definition for professional status, which as it is stated today will include LLC's. This is bad news for me...

But maybe in another couple days it will change again, I can only hope.

Mike

Am in a similar boat. I would also consider dissolving the LLC, but would have to study that more ti understand the full implications

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  #120 (permalink)
 bob7123 
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Big Mike View Post
The most recent news I've heard is that the CME is not going to reconsider the new definition for professional status, which as it is stated today will include LLC's. This is bad news for me...

But maybe in another couple days it will change again, I can only hope.

Mike

Here's a question:

FT71 told us that has the usual multi monitor setup, but his actual trading PC is a separate computer with no other apps on it.

Can someone have a similar architecture, sign up for IQFeed as an individual, display data on a multi monitor rig, and then have a separate trading computer make a connection to their broker and trade in a LLC account?

It seems to me that merely having a LLC should not disqualify me, after all I could be an individual trader with an LLC that sells car parts on eBay or whatnot.

Or maybe that wouldn't save much. Perhaps the CME would still charge the LLC account exorbitantly just to display the DoM.

Anyway, I'm just putting this out to see what people think.

-Bob

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  #121 (permalink)
 dnof 
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bob7123 View Post
Here's a question:

FT71 told us that has the usual multi monitor setup, but his actual trading PC is a separate computer with no other apps on it.

Can someone have a similar architecture, sign up for IQFeed as an individual, display data on a multi monitor rig, and then have a separate trading computer make a connection to their broker and trade in a LLC account?

It seems to me that merely having a LLC should not disqualify me, after all I could be an individual trader with an LLC that sells car parts on eBay or whatnot.

Or maybe that wouldn't save much. Perhaps the CME would still charge the LLC account exorbitantly just to display the DoM.

Anyway, I'm just putting this out to see what people think.

-Bob


Bob my suspicion is that CME does not care what we are doing, they will charge the broker a certain amount based on the number of accounts they have and if they are pro or non-pro. The broker will then enforce the "access" via the username like happens today, where you can login with an account in one or maybe up to two locations before you are forcibly disconnected from another.

So I think if you are logged into two "services" that get data from CME I think they will make us pay twice.

For example today I use Zenfire a primary data source and broker connection, and then also have Kinetick for backup data and certain market internals etc that I do not get from ZF. I suspect under the new regime, this gets billed twice.

Given I trade out of an LLC, that could be crushing amounts of money!

I will wait and see what the final ruling on the LLC thing is going to be, but if I am looking at $000's of extra for data, then I will either trade as an individual or move to other non CME markets/instruments etc.

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  #122 (permalink)
 leinster 
Brussels / Dublin
 
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I hate the fees but it really put much more emphasis on using a more open / better platform where the data is more easily exportable between systems at runtime.

That appears to be the only way around this.

Incidentally i use two connections to IB so presume two fees are payable as i have market data for both.

I hope to move out of this structure to move completly `open` so i dont get impacted by this.

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  #123 (permalink)
 neko333 
Hawaii
 
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If you trade say 3 products, GC, CL & Index Futures that would be $255/month and slightly higher per contract fees. Is this really that big a deal? what am I missing

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  #124 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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It's not so much the fee as the concept

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  #125 (permalink)
 torroray 
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neko333 View Post
If you trade say 3 products, GC, CL & Index Futures that would be $255/month and slightly higher per contract fees. Is this really that big a deal? what am I missing

How do you arrive at $225/month. Can you explain a bit more

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  #126 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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marcopolo1 View Post
Subscriber must be viewing the data via a device capable of routing orders to CME Globex
What does this mean? Have an internet connection? Have a software able to connect directly/(or not?) to CME globex for orders?

Interestingly, there is no restriction on analyzing the data as long you don't look at it (which should refer to charting)...

Also, does 'data' refers to real-time data only, and/or stored data, and/or delayed data?

It seems to me the intend is that non-professional subscriber data should only be use for charting and ordering... but who knows...

What is your interpretation?

This means that to qualify for Non-Pro exchange fees, you will need to meet the same criteria now required to receive Globex waivers. Real-time Globex data being fed to a trade-capable software, and a funded trading account with a participating broker which supports that software. Brokers who now participate in the waivers program will continue to verify funded accounts each month, but eff Mar 1, 2014 (new waivers customer cutoff) it will be to validate Non-Pro status instead of waivers qualification.

My thinking is that if one is now getting Globex data and doesn't have waivers, it might make sense to get waivers prior to Mar 2014 cutoff. It may mean opening a minimally funded account with a different broker who participates in the program and supports your software. If you are using a software you can't trade through, like Ensign for example, It may mean having an additional (trade-capable & supported by your participating broker) software running in the background and being fed by same data feed so you can get waivers.

There are advantages to having waivers before Mar 2014, whether you are a Non-Pro or Pro per CME Group rules. First, you will keep the waivers through 2014, provided you don't make changes to your broker/feed/software during that time that would make you disqualified. Second, eff Jan 1, 2015, as a Non-Pro you will pay the lower Non-Pro fees for Globex data, and as a Pro you will pay just 50% of the published Pro fees for Globex data.

Just some food for thought.


bob7123 View Post
Here's a question:

FT71 told us that has the usual multi monitor setup, but his actual trading PC is a separate computer with no other apps on it.

Can someone have a similar architecture, sign up for IQFeed as an individual, display data on a multi monitor rig, and then have a separate trading computer make a connection to their broker and trade in a LLC account?

It seems to me that merely having a LLC should not disqualify me, after all I could be an individual trader with an LLC that sells car parts on eBay or whatnot.

Or maybe that wouldn't save much. Perhaps the CME would still charge the LLC account exorbitantly just to display the DoM.

Anyway, I'm just putting this out to see what people think.

-Bob

If you have IQFeed and your software on one computer and your broker trading platform on a different computer, even as a bona fide Non-Pro per CME rules, you will pay Pro fees for IQFeed because you can't qualify for waivers that way. It won't matter if you're an LLC or not with that setup. Besides paying IQFeed Pro fees you would also be paying $15 to your broker for providing Globex data on the other computer.

My point is, if you can't qualify for waivers, you will pay Pro fees for Globex data whether or not you are trading through LLC.

Robert

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  #127 (permalink)
 tgibbs 
Temecula, CA
 
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Big Mike View Post
The most recent news I've heard is that the CME is not going to reconsider the new definition for professional status, which as it is stated today will include LLC's. This is bad news for me...

But maybe in another couple days it will change again, I can only hope.

Mike

Just a question that I think you have probably been pondering, is it still worthwhile to stay in an LLC? Does the extra charges at the front end outweigh the potential deductions and write offs that you get on the back end? I would think not but dang that is a big chunk of change to swallow. I am curious as I have an LLC setup ready to go when I either get funded or go live with my own money.

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  #128 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
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What a ridiculous money grab by the CME? Make it to expensive to trade and traders will find other products elsewhere. Will be interesting to see if liquidity starts to change on things like CL. There are alternatives like WTI on ICE. Things like WTI are not as liquid as CL so CL is better now. But what happens if WTI becomes the more liquid contract for example. CME better realize traders are only married to some of their products because they offer the most liquidity etc but that can change. If CME goes through with this I hope we start getting volume on other exchanges in similar contracts and CME comes back in a year begging for customers to come back. Bad idea for CME to tick off their entire customer base.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #129 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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liquidcci View Post
Bad idea for CME to tick off their entire customer base.

That's just it though, retail is not their base. Their base is the volume pushers or "liquidity providers", for which these changes would have less than marginal impact I would imagine.

Mike

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  #130 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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Big Mike View Post
That's just it though, retail is not their base. Their base is the volume pushers or "liquidity providers", for which these changes would have less than marginal impact I would imagine.

Mike

Mike you are probably right. I guess we have no way of knowing what the retail guys as a whole bring in from a liquidity perspective at least that I am aware. Question is collectively is it enough to change structure of some of these markets enough to cause the big fish to seek out other markets? Probably not but would be nice to see CME take a hit from this.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #131 (permalink)
 pedalon 
Harrisburg, PA
 
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I just called in and talked to TradeStation. I was informed that as of now, they are not aware of any changes in fees for their customers. However, they really couldn't give me any clear answers on anything pertaining to the CME fee changes. It's like they aren't even aware of them. For me, I have 3 options, wait and see what happens in January, drop the LLC account or just move funds to my Forex account and close the Futures account.

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  #132 (permalink)
 neko333 
Hawaii
 
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Could someone please clarify. If trading 3 products: GC, CL & Index futures under a General Partnership that would be $85/per exchange each month. So $255/month in fees + $15/month + around .05/contract additional commissions. Obviously this is not a dream come true but whats the big deal here for any reasonable sized account? So aside from the additional ~.05 commissions it would be roughly $3,240/year in fees. What am I missing if anything? Maybe a profitable trader should be focusing on adding an additional contract in size that likely could have been added a long time ago.

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  #133 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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neko333 View Post
Could someone please clarify. If trading 3 products: GC, CL & Index futures under a General Partnership that would be $85/per exchange each month. So $255/month in fees + $15/month + around .05/contract additional commissions. Obviously this is not a dream come true but whats the big deal here for any reasonable sized account? So aside from the additional ~.05 commissions it would be roughly $3,240/year in fees. What am I missing if anything? Maybe a profitable trader should be focusing on adding an additional contract in size that likely could have been added a long time ago.

The big deal is about LLC's.... this has been stated a few times now. $2,000 a year isn't going to make a break anyone, but $25k a year in fees that didn't exist yesterday starts to leave a mark.

Mike

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  #134 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
Philadelphia
 
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Big Mike View Post
The big deal is about LLC's.... this has been stated a few times now. $2,000 a year isn't going to make a break anyone, but $25k a year in fees that didn't exist yesterday starts to leave a mark.

Mike

How did u come up with that figure - 25k? Whatre u paying for if u dont mind me asking, that seems absurdly high

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  #135 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Itchymoku View Post
How did u come up with that figure - 25k? Whatre u paying for if u dont mind me asking, that seems absurdly high

That was the original math based on being charged per platform, per broker, per exchange as a professional. The new math is just per broker, per exchange as a professional regardless the number of platforms. So it is about 8k a year -- if -- what is being said today remains true. At this point it is changing almost every day it would seem.

Mike

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  #136 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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Big Mike View Post
That was the original math based on being charged per platform, per broker, per exchange as a professional. The new math is just per broker, per exchange as a professional regardless the number of platforms. So it is about 8k a year -- if -- what is being said today remains true. At this point it is changing almost every day it would seem.

Mike

Ru planning on just using your own platform with one broker and exchange and maybe a back up? Or is it crucial to have access to them all to keep up with the forum? Sorry Im confused why you need them all?

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  #137 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Itchymoku View Post
Ru planning on just using your own platform with one broker and exchange and maybe a back up? Or is it crucial to have access to them all to keep up with the forum? Sorry Im confused why you need them all?

Yes, I need/want/demand more than one brokerage account.

I have had multiple accounts for years and have diversified my funds in this way across multiple brokers. There are advantages. Besides, I have gotten used to doing things a certain way -- swings in one account, day trades in another for example.

The number of platforms no longer has anything to do with it as I posted about a few days ago.

Mike

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  #138 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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Big Mike View Post
Yes, I need/want/demand more than one brokerage account.

I have had multiple accounts for years and have diversified my funds in this way across multiple brokers. There are advantages. Besides, I have gotten used to doing things a certain way -- swings in one account, day trades in another for example.

The number of platforms no longer has anything to do with it as I posted about a few days ago.

Mike

In a perfect world, you out of all people should be exempt from these outrageously high fees due to the simple fact that you provide help to countless traders through this website in regards to choosing brokers, data feeds, exchanges, and platforms. Not to mention your forum probably generates revenue to the CME by simply letting people make journals and become better futures traders.

sorry if I missed this, but does developing your own platform give you any perks in regards to the fees?

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  #139 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Itchymoku View Post
sorry if I missed this, but does developing your own platform give you any perks in regards to the fees?

I can't think of any.

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  #140 (permalink)
 neko333 
Hawaii
 
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For futures trading I use only Mirus and in a conversation with them was quoted $85 per exchange and the $15/month fee + ~.05 commissions extra. So considering I'm trading GC, CL & Index Futures this is around $270/month in fees besides the additional commissions. As a General Partnership I'm told it would be classified the same as an LLC so all these quotes are based on professional status. Still though only works out to several thousand a year in fees and a little more in commissions.

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  #141 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
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First communication from Kinetick - received the email just now.
It looks like I will have a $5 increase on my basic package starting Jan 1st, 2014.
So from 50$ per month to 55$ per month. And the CME waiver program is still active, so I would still receive the GLOBEX, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX for free.



Quoting 
Dear Valued Kinetick Subscriber,

Due to data subscription changes directly from our many supported exchanges and enhancements made within the Kinetick infrastructure, exchange fees and the Kinetick Base subscription fee will change effective January 1st, 2014.

Real-time exchange costs for some less commonly traded exchanges, and from the CME Group (CME, CBOT, Nymex and Comex) will be increased. These costs are reflected on the Kinetick Purchase Page at: https://www.kinetick.com/purchase click on “Subscribe” to see new exchange fees.

*Please note that if you are a current participant in the CME Fee Waiver Program these changes will not affect your validation of that program at this time. Any updates will be communicated when available.*

In addition to the billing changes that are necessary from these exchanges, the Kinetick team has also been hard at work to enhance the products and services we offer. These changes will result in an increase of the Basic Kinetick Subscription from $50 to $55 per month effective January 1st, 2014.

Enhancements Include:

· Increased our tick data storage by 50% to 180 calendar days
· Hardware upgrades to improve processing and functionality for historical and real-time data

As each Kinetick user subscribes to different combinations of our many products, each user will be impacted differently based on their unique subscription packages. Please contact us if you have any questions by sending an email to support@kinetick.com

We appreciate your business and your continued support, which has helped make Kinetick the best and most affordable market data vendor available for NinjaTrader. We anticipate a great 2014 and we are excited to continue serving you in the New Year.

Happy Holidays,
The Kinetick Team


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  #142 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
Legendary Market Wizard
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For everyone using Market Profile in the chart program the fee
increases as well as from Jan 1 2014 as CME is the company
owning all the Market Profile rights.

Read the eMail I got from Linnsoft concerning Market Profile:

"Effective January 1, 2014, the CME has elected to increase the monthly
fee for access to CME Market Profile charting. The CME owns the
copyright and trademark for Market Profile and the graphic format used
to render CME Market Profile Charts. Under our agreement with the CME,
Linn Software collects this fee as part of your monthly software
subscription and remits the per-subscriber fee to the CME. The
increased CME fee of $10/mo. is reflected in Investor/RT Market
Profile pricing effective with the January 1, 2014 billing cycle:

Investor/RT Market Profile Standard Edition - $65/mo.

Investor/RT Market Profile Profession Edition - $85/mo.

Note that Investor/RT Professional monthly licenses continue to be
available for $70/mo. While this edition of Investor/RT does not offer
CME Market Profile charting, there are substantial price and volume
profiling capabilities in this edition by way of the Volume Breakdown
Indicator and the Profile Indicator. Effective January 1, 2014, the
Professional edition of Investor/RT will provide access to the TPO
Indicator as well. Many of our clients have found that the market
profiling capabilities of the Investor/RT Professional edition are
sufficient for their profile analysis work and have taken advantage of
its lower monthly pricing. If you wish to revise your subscription, go
to File > License... and click the Revise License button. License
revisions go into effect immediately. License revisions should be
made on or before December 30, 2013 so that we can revise your monthly
billing rate accordingly. If you have questions or need assistance
please open a support ticket at http://support.linnsoft.com."

GFIs1

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  #143 (permalink)
 Jura   is a Vendor
 
 
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Robert Carrillo View Post
(...)
My thinking is that if one is now getting Globex data and doesn't have waivers, it might make sense to get waivers prior to Mar 2014 cutoff. It may mean opening a minimally funded account with a different broker who participates in the program and supports your software. If you are using a software you can't trade through, like Ensign for example, It may mean having an additional (trade-capable & supported by your participating broker) software running in the background and being fed by same data feed so you can get waivers.
(....)

Just thinking along for people who might want to do that: the free MultiCharts .NET starter edition can receive real-time data and let's the user submit trades. Just saying since I'm not sure if a free platform like NinjaTrader that does not allow trades to be placed is what CME considers a platform suitable for waivers.

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  #144 (permalink)
 marcopolo1 
columbus OH/USA
 
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GFIs1 View Post
For everyone using Market Profile in the chart program the fee
increases as well as from Jan 1 2014 as CME is the company
owning all the Market Profile rights.
......
GFIs1

Thanks GFIs1! I wasn't aware of this copyright, but they are claiming it: https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/schedule-6-cme-mlda.pdf
MARKET PROFILE FEES.
Distributor must pay to CME the following Market Profile Fees: $7.00 per month per Customer per terminal.

How can someone copyright was is essentially an histogram of volume is beyond me....
Hopefully, volume profile is copyright free...

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  #145 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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Jura View Post
Just thinking along for people who might want to do that: the free MultiCharts .NET starter edition can receive real-time data and let's the user submit trades. Just saying since I'm not sure if a free platform like NinjaTrader that does not allow trades to be placed is what CME considers a platform suitable for waivers.

Thanks Jura, I wasn't aware that the free edition of MC allows live trades (up to two symbols it says). That's good to know.

Robert

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  #146 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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CME Rate Change!
I have asked myself “What has led the CME to go down this path? Why now and did they really overlook something that brokers and FCMs are opening their eyes to? I attempt to answer it here.

I am not a spokesperson for the CME; and I am not defending their positions, rather I try to be an objective voice in these not so great circumstances that are about to be imposed on us. This is purely my opinion.
CME has very strong analytical team who has considered the implications of the cost increase and the impact on trading, and they must have come to the conclusion that the fee increase will not affect their business.

Reasons for increase in clearing Rate.
Increase in regulatory cost as a result of the collapse of large firms like MF Global.
Nowadays, exchanges need to build better safe guards along with contingency plans in case another institutional meltdown will occur. The NFA has also increased their cost from 2 to 4 cents a few years back as their cost of supervising and monitoring has increased substantially both in terms of manpower and in terms of technology.
Additionally, technology cost has gone up tremendously as algos and HFTs require solid infrastructure. CME is not only a clearer of Futures, but of SWAPS, clearport, etc building a bigger and better infrastructure has its cost.

Reasons for increase data fees.
Besides the revenue side of clearing, there is revenue as a result of distribution of data. The number of users for data goes up while their revenue for data distribution goes down. Why? In one simple term: Many users that “consume” data, don’t trade. Whether demo or real accounts that don’t trade, they (CME) incurs a cost of data distribution. Bandwidth has its limits.
Every business (sadly) needs to factor many circumstances that have nothing to do with its customers. CME is no different.

The rates increase as I understood it so far. Please conduct your own due diligence to verify all facts on your own. This is merely here as informational and not factual. CME may or may not change certain fees.

$15 increase in user/device feed per exchange ($85 per exchange), for those who don’t fall under the trading waiver .

2014 Will be grandfathered for those under the trading waiver. If you are currently an active trader, you considered to have a waiver. If you are a new trader who has opened an account after March 1, 2014 you will be paying $85 per exchange. If you opened it before March 1, 2014 you will continue to be waived until 2015, however will pay half the cost until the end of 2015 ($42.5).

After 2015 all traders now will pay for market data. New Traders will pay $85 per exchange per month per platform. No comment on 2016.

Those who require black box connectivity for automation of trades /$670 per month per exchange. This does not include automated strategy on Ninja or Multi, etc this for a non-display algos.

Brokers (considered professional) will pay $85 per exchange used.

Corporate, LLC accounts, etc will be charged $85 per exchange and $85 per platform/Per Month. Broker clients could potentially qualify as non pro accounts. CME Group lists this criterion below.
For your convenience here are additional tools:
Notice: https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-2014.pdf
FAQ Link: https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-faq-2014.pdf

I understand the rate increase in lieu of technology, regulation and data feed. However, here is the absurd of it all: Those who trade will incur the cost as a result of those who don’t trade. Those who don’t trade don’t care. Those who trade, suffer.
For example, inactivity fees/data fees should be imposed from the exchanges on those who don’t trade, not on those who provide liquidity. This will avoid the “quote junkies” running from broker to another asking for a demo.

Why should active customers absorb the cost of the CME, while those who sit there and chart “spaghetti fights” have zero cost? That is the unfair part! Maybe there is a regulatory issue that prevents the CME from doing so, but I don’t know. We shall see how this saga evolves.

Thank you,
Matt
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  #147 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
Omaha NE
 
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Jura View Post
...I'm not sure if a free platform like NinjaTrader that does not allow trades to be placed is what CME considers a platform suitable for waivers.

Jura,

I didn't reply to your comment/question. The answer is no, it is not suitable. You need to be able to make live trades.

BTW, thanks again for mentioning the free MC Starter Edition which does allow live trades. A customer starting his IQFeed trial yesterday is using Ensign and has an IB account. I directed him to the free MC, we set it up with IQFeed and IB, and have it running in the background to Ensign. He now has waivers.

Robert

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  #148 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
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Robert Carrillo View Post
Jura,

I didn't reply to your comment/question. The answer is no, it is not suitable. You need to be able to make live trades.

BTW, thanks again for mentioning the free MC Starter Edition which does allow live trades. A customer starting his IQFeed trial yesterday is using Ensign and has an IB account. I directed him to the free MC, we set it up with IQFeed and IB, and have it running in the background to Ensign. He now has waivers.

Robert

I would like to clarify this. NinjaTrader has a free live trading version available through CQG, Zen-Fire and BigTick.

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  #149 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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NinjaTrader View Post
I would like to clarify this. NinjaTrader has a free live trading version available through CQG, Zen-Fire and BigTick.

Thank you for clarifying, Ray. I didn't mean to imply that free NT doesn't qualify, only that a software that can't make live trades doesn't qualify.

Robert

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  #150 (permalink)
 Malvolio 
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mattz View Post
$15 increase in user/device feed per exchange ($85 per exchange), for those who don’t fall under the trading waiver .

15$ is the bundled package not per exchange:
https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-2014.pdf

"Non-Professional subscribers may elect either option on a
per-exchange basis or, as a bundled package, which would include all four of CME Group’s exchanges"

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  #151 (permalink)
 paps 
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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Guys so how much without new increase. I remember paying as much as 134 or so with waivers thru broker when I had the feed.
Another question...per feed from DTN can we power ninja and any other platform or a feed per platform. Wanted to know what my options for next yr and beyond would be since I run few things things for analytics.

Thnx
Paps

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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  #152 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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paps View Post
Guys so how much without new increase. I remember paying as much as 134 or so with waivers thru broker when I had the feed.
Another question...per feed from DTN can we power ninja and any other platform or a feed per platform. Wanted to know what my options for next yr and beyond would be since I run few things things for analytics.

Thnx
Paps

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

paps,

IQFeed can still be used in multiple applications simultaneously on the same computer. What works today will work still.

Robert

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  #153 (permalink)
 paps 
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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Hi Robert.....that is amazing to know. Yes have a box which can handle multi apps. 1 feed powering 2 or more apps...wow !!

Question:- I am only looking for feeds on ES/YM/NQ n breadth/tick data from NYSE/S&P/Dow. I really dont care about anything else....since i can get that info from TS.

Would you be able to mention a price on a forum?...with and without broker waivers.

Ps: on a side note....do you happen to carry any data for Nifty50 from India. That is something i would also be interested in.

thnx
paps

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  #154 (permalink)
 paps 
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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Hi Robert...sent in the same questions on AMA thread.... since it maybe more aligned in that thread.

thnx
paps

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  #155 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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paps View Post
Hi Robert...sent in the same questions on AMA thread.... since it maybe more aligned in that thread.

thnx
paps

Reply in AMA.

Robert

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 decarleytrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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Feel free to post a comment on the article to keep the discussion going and help spread the word

Impact Of CME Fee Increases On Retail Traders

Thanks,
Carley

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If you have any questions about the products or services provided by DeCarleyTrading, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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Albnd
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Important Information Regarding Upcoming Changes in Market Data Fees

Some of the financial exchanges are planning to increase market data fees starting on January 1, 2014 . Below is a summary of the price increases scheduled to take effect for Non-Professional users:

Futures:

CME Group is planning to increase the cost of several of its data services starting on January 1, 2014. The $20 per month Globex Value Bundle, which is available to TradeStation futures brokerage customers, will not be subject to a fee increase at this time. Below are the details of each of the increases that will affect CME Group market data packages:

CBOT

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the CBOT e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $10 to its new cost of $20.

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the CBOT e-mini markets and delayed data for all CBOT Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $11 to its new cost of $21.

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all CBOT Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

CME

CME Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the CME e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $25 to its new cost of $40.

CME Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for all CME Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

COMEX

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the COMEX e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $10 to its new cost of $20.

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the COMEX e-mini markets and delayed data for all COMEX Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $11 to its new cost of $21.

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all COMEX Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

NYMEX

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the NYMEX e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $15 to its new cost of $30.

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the NYMEX e-mini markets and delayed data for all NYMEX Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $16 to its new cost of $31.

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all NYMEX Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

KCBT

The Kansas City Board of Trade market data package will no longer exist. Kansas City Board of Trade market data will now be included as part of the CBOT market data packages.



Below is a summary of the price increases scheduled to take effect for Professional users:

Indices:

The Russell Indices package will increase from its current cost of $2 per month to its new cost of $15 per month.



Futures:

CME Group is planning to increase the cost of several of its data services starting on January 1, 2014. The $20 per month Globex Value Bundle, which is available to TradeStation futures brokerage customers, will not be subject to a fee increase at this time. Below are the details of each of the increases that will affect CME Group market data packages:

CBOT

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the CBOT e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $10 to its new cost of $20.

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the CBOT e-mini markets and delayed data for all CBOT Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $11 to its new cost of $21.

CBOT Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all CBOT Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

CME

CME Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the CME e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $25 to its new cost of $40.

CME Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for all CME Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

COMEX

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the COMEX e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $10 to its new cost of $20.

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the COMEX e-mini markets and delayed data for all COMEX Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $11 to its new cost of $21.

COMEX Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all COMEX Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

NYMEX

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #1, which includes real-time data for the NYMEX e-mini markets, will increase from its current cost of $15 to its new cost of $30.

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #2, which includes real-time data for the NYMEX e-mini markets and delayed data for all NYMEX Globex and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $16 to its new cost of $31.

NYMEX Real-Time Data Package #3, which includes real-time data for all NYMEX Mini, Globex, and Floor-traded markets, will increase from its current cost of $90 to its new cost of $105.

KCBT

The Kansas City Board of Trade market data package will no longer exist. Kansas City Board of Trade market data will now be included as part of the CBOT market data packages.



Equities:

NASDAQ Real-Time Data Package #1 (Level I data) will increase from its current cost of $25 per month to its new cost of $28 per month.

NASDAQ Real-Time Data Package #2 (Level I and Level II data) will increase from its current cost of $91 per month to its new cost of $105 per month.

NASDAQ Real-Time Data Package #3 (Level I, Level II, and TotalView data) will increase from its current cost of $131 per month to its new cost of $145 per month.

Options:

OPRA data will increase from its current cost of $26 per month to its new cost of $27 per month.


These price increases will automatically take effect starting on January 1, 2014. If you would like to remove or modify any of your market data subscriptions, you can do so by clicking here or by going to the “Add/Remove Optional Data Services” section within the Client Center area of "Online Trading | Trade Stocks, Options, Futures & Forex Online | Trading Software".

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  #158 (permalink)
 marcopolo1 
columbus OH/USA
 
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See Google Translate

Users of financial data complain of soaring prices. Bloomberg impose a rate increase of 30% over the next three years.

There is anger among the main users of financial data, faced with soaring prices. Because in the world of finance, "data" are the raw material. It is therefore essential. Purchase and sale of a share price of a bond or other financial product , the level of supply, demand, market information, description of the indices, historical price ... rooms market banks, insurers, or depositaries and fund management companies every day need to brew this type of data in the millions. These "data" that is supplied by several major operators (Bloomberg, Thomson Reuters, Six Financial), rating agencies ( Fitch , Standard & Poor's) or the index providers (Standard & Poor's, MSCI, Dow Jones Stoxx) .
"Clash of data"

"For years, these providers abusing their dominant position and not being subject to regulation and supervision, regularly and shamelessly increased their data access prices" alert a consulting firm that works with large institutions French and European financial. She says that these rate increases "took exceptional magnitude in the past two years. These, combined with a growing need for data Processors are waging a clash of data. " Some index providers have thus presented to their clients increases from "a multiplier of 4-24." Moreover, according to our information, Bloomberg would be negotiating with all institutions instead a new contract flows associated with its data terminals, which would result in an increase of at least 30% of the invoice the next three years. The giant financial reporting swears he does that affect the price increases of its own suppliers. In fact, some scholars operators carry out increases for less daring.

Customers are even more unhappy they buy the right to use these data. There is no transfer of ownership. "What makes the supplier may impose certain things on the farm also made ​​by his client of the data," says consulting firm.

Interviewed by "Les Echos", companies specialized titles such as CACEIS SGSS or prefer not to comment. Other confirm a surge in prices on the "data" from Bloomberg, without confirming the figure of 30%. Management companies finally feel that the price increase for data access is a real problem. With more concern on the part of small, with less leverage to negotiate the note. "European Commission and the competition authorities would do well to get involved, said the leader of one of them. regulators require institutional investors to complete "reporting" we must provide them, but, on the other hand, providers of these data to create these "reporting" are private companies which enjoy a virtual monopoly . "

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MoscowOnHudson
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From what I hear, if your account is opened and funded by March 1, 2014, you will be exempt from these new CME fees until 2015. Can anyone confirm this info? My broker said this is what he heard, but has been waiting on official CME confirmation for a while now and still has nothing 'substantial', but has assured me this seems to be the general consensus. Anyone have a clue?

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  #160 (permalink)
 marcopolo1 
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Who's looking out for the little guy? Apparently not exchange or regulators in 2013

Who's looking out for the little guy? Apparently not exchange or regulators in 2013

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  #161 (permalink)
Eric B
Fort Worth, Texas
 
 
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I was under the impression the purpose the 'little guy' served in the futures market was to, in great mass, transfer funds from their accounts to the professional traders' accounts. No wonder no one's looking out for him!

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  #162 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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So how did this end up playing out for you that were thinking it could add several thousand dollars to your trading every year?

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  #163 (permalink)
 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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CME Market Data Fee Changes
Effective March 1, 2014

The CME Group has announced significant changes to its existing Market Data Policy and Fees. These changes will be phased in through 2016; with the first phase to be effective on March 1, 2014, as outlined below. The information below focuses on the immediate changes and further information will be distributed on the other changes in the coming months. A copy of the CME's FAQ document on these changes is attached.

After March 1, 2014, NEW CME-market-data subscribers will begin paying monthly fees for CME data, according to the following fee schedule:

“Non-Professional Traders”
$5 per Exchange or $15 monthly bundle for all four (CME, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX)

“Professional Traders”
$85 per Exchange or $340 monthly for all four Exchanges (NO bundled pricing offered)

In order to qualify for “Non-Professional status”, a Subscriber must, at a minimum, meet the following criteria:
a. the Subscriber must have an active and funded futures trading account;
b. the Subscriber must not be an Exchange Member (or hold or lease any type of Exchange Membership):
c. the Subscriber does not have a primary business purpose that involves trading;
d. the Subscriber must not be registered or qualified as a professional trader or investment adviser with any stock, commodities or futures exchange, or with any regulatory authority, professional association or recognized professional body;
e. the Subscriber must not be affiliated with any entity that is or may be considered a Professional User;

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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MXTrader
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i got confirm from Dorman. The fee is really coming. It sucks.

After March 1, 2014, NEW CME-market-data subscribers will begin paying monthly fees for CME data, according to the following fee schedule:



“Non-Professional Traders”

$5 per Exchange or $15 monthly bundle for all four (CME, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX)



“Professional Traders”

$85 per Exchange or $340 monthly for all four Exchanges (NO bundled pricing offered)

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  #165 (permalink)
kpab702
Sherman Oaks, CA / USA
 
 
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This seems like a significant impact to all new traders who decide to open accounts after March 1, 2014. I believe all existing traders will not have to pay this fee but who knows, things could always change. I read more about this and it looks like the fees could increase through the years. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.


MXTrader View Post
i got confirm from Dorman. The fee is really coming. It sucks.

After March 1, 2014, NEW CME-market-data subscribers will begin paying monthly fees for CME data, according to the following fee schedule:



“Non-Professional Traders”

$5 per Exchange or $15 monthly bundle for all four (CME, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX)



“Professional Traders”

$85 per Exchange or $340 monthly for all four Exchanges (NO bundled pricing offered)


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  #166 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
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kpab702 View Post
This seems like a significant impact to all new traders who decide to open accounts after March 1, 2014. I believe all existing traders will not have to pay this fee but who knows, things could always change. I read more about this and it looks like the fees could increase through the years. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

Just heard today from Global Futures that the grandfathering is only until 2015. At that point all traders will pay the fee.

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  #167 (permalink)
MXTrader
Toronto, Canada
 
 
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i will consider trade less CME products when they charge me data access fee in 2015. I don't like this CME monopoly attitude. TF in ICE is a good alternative.

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  #168 (permalink)
kpab702
Sherman Oaks, CA / USA
 
 
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Who know's, it could only be a matter of time till ICE jumps on these fees as well and starts charging clients for there market data. But you're right, I feel that the CME charging fees for their market data will really hurt the industry.


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i will consider trade less CME products when they charge me data access fee in 2015. I don't like this CME monopoly attitude. TF in ICE is a good alternative.


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  #169 (permalink)
 Robert Carrillo 
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Good news from CME Group regarding individuals (Non-Pros) trading as LLC:

For clarification on LLC and Non-Pro see Page 2, question 2 and

Page 4: I am an individual but have incorporated for tax purposes, am I a professional/non-professional?

https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-faq-2014.pdf

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  #170 (permalink)
 bob7123 
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Robert Carrillo View Post
Good news from CME Group regarding individuals (Non-Pros) trading as LLC:

For clarification on LLC and Non-Pro see Page 2, question 2 and

Page 4: I am an individual but have incorporated for tax purposes, am I a professional/non-professional?

https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/distributor/files/market-data-policy-changes-faq-2014.pdf

I hesitate to use the term, but that's pretty much been the holy grail of this whole discussion.

Great news!!

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  #171 (permalink)
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
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MXTrader View Post
i got confirm from Dorman. The fee is really coming. It sucks.

After March 1, 2014, NEW CME-market-data subscribers will begin paying monthly fees for CME data, according to the following fee schedule:



“Non-Professional Traders”

$5 per Exchange or $15 monthly bundle for all four (CME, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX)



“Professional Traders”

$85 per Exchange or $340 monthly for all four Exchanges (NO bundled pricing offered)

Also heard you can purchase one exchange if that is all you need. i.e. CME for ES/NQ.

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kmvkmvkmv
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MXTrader View Post

“Non-Professional Traders”

$5 per Exchange or $15 monthly bundle for all four (CME, CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX)



“Professional Traders”

$85 per Exchange or $340 monthly for all four Exchanges (NO bundled pricing offered)

Hi guys,

do your brokers offer buying only one or two Exchanges or you have to pay for a bundle, even if you do not use them all?


Thanks!

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  #173 (permalink)
MXTrader
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talked to a broker, he said yes, you can only pay for one or two Exchanges .

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  #174 (permalink)
 kbit 
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CME Executive Chairman Terrence Duffy stated that “we’re taking a very judicious look at how we’re implementing this data fee and, not only the data fee, but the increase in general…if we’re missing something that we didn’t see, we’re listening to it,” in response to brokers’ criticism over fee increases that are set to raise costs for futures customers.

CME to reassess data fees

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  #175 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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talked to a broker, he said yes, you can only pay for one or two Exchanges .

You can pay and get just the exchanges you trade on.

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #176 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
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Bryan T. Durkin
Chief Operating Officer

June 6, 2014

In November 2013, CME Group announced that the company would discontinue the waiver for its market data fees on trading terminals. We listened to your feedback, and understand that in today’s marketplace there can be a need for a single user to access multiple screens for market data. To prevent customers from paying multiple fees for a single user, we will offer “netting,” or a pay-per-user model across our membership base. This will be available to individual members, employees of member firms and Introducing Brokers who receive data from their clearing member firm.

Members who choose to participate must contract directly with CME Group and will need to provide specific details around market data use. This program will begin in 2015.

We will be providing additional information in the coming weeks on the enrollment process. If you have any immediate questions, please contact the market data team at marketdata@cmegroup.com or at 312.634.8395.

Bryan T. Durkin

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  #177 (permalink)
 wldman 
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encouraging.

This is called B.O.H.I.C.A.

Bend over here it comes again!

Next chance wldman gets to walk away can't come soon enough.

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  #178 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
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AMP is already charging my account $15/month for the new CME fees.
I had tried to stay away from any monthly platform and broker fees but looks like can't get out of this one now.

My TDA account is still monthly-less charges, because I don't have futures activated on it.
Although they had been aggressive and occasionally calling me saying they aim "to procure
my futures trading business" as well. I wish I hadn't told them I had other broker futures trading
accounts but they had asked a lot of questions..

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  #179 (permalink)
 Only 
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so if i only want cme data i should pay 5usd and not 15usd.

i also read, you can get only the "top of the book" , which reduces the fees from 5usd to 1usd!

anybody can confirm this?

i dont use orderbook, so top of book would be ok for me.

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  #180 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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Only View Post
so if i only want cme data i should pay 5usd and not 15usd.

i also read, you can get only the "top of the book" , which reduces the fees from 5usd to 1usd!

anybody can confirm this?

i dont use orderbook, so top of book would be ok for me.

I'd like to know the difference too, I never asked my broker. I assume you don't get to see the orders on the depth? How would this affect someone trading off of charts from the dom who doesn't need to know where all the other orders are?

R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #181 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Only View Post
so if i only want cme data i should pay 5usd and not 15usd.

i also read, you can get only the "top of the book" , which reduces the fees from 5usd to 1usd!

anybody can confirm this?

I dont use orderbook, so top of book would be ok for me.

If you want CME it is $5 only. I will find out about top of the book and if there is any reduction for that.

Update: it is $1 if you ONLY want top of the book.

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #182 (permalink)
 tturner86 
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If you want CME it is $5 only. I will find out about top of the book and if there is any reduction for that.

Update: it is $1 if you ONLY want top of the book.

Matt

What is top of the book?

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  #183 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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What is top of the book?

NBBO / inside bid and ask, no depth

Mike

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  #184 (permalink)
CafeGrande
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NBBO / inside bid and ask, no depth

Mike

Just to clarify, does that mean you would see the bid size at the best bid, the ask size at the best ask, but nothing above or below? And does this "top of book" apply to both futures and futures options quotes?

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  #185 (permalink)
 arnie 
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NBBO / inside bid and ask, no depth

Mike

How would a footprint and time and sales work?

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
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  #186 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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are there any consequences to trading with top of the book data only other than just not being able to view the rest of the depth?

R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #187 (permalink)
 kronie 
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was there a grandfather clause as an exemption to this nuisance monthly fee?

at AMP, its $15 monthly

what are you paying at your brokers?

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  #188 (permalink)
 tturner86 
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kronie View Post
was there a grandfather clause as an exemption to this nuisance monthly fee?

at AMP, its $15 monthly

what are you paying at your brokers?

At Cannon I was grandfathered for a year. Next year I will have to start paying the fee, looking at the CME only option at the moment.

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  #189 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
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At Advantage I'm grandfathered until next year as well.

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  #190 (permalink)
 steve2222 
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At AMP and also Mirus/Dorman and I am grandfathered at both as well.

I believe you can transfer your 'grandfather' status from one broker to another until next year.

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  #191 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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CafeGrande View Post
Just to clarify, does that mean you would see the bid size at the best bid, the ask size at the best ask, but nothing above or below? And does this "top of book" apply to both futures and futures options quotes?

Yes. I can't comment on options as I don't trade them.

Mike

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  #192 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
How would a footprint and time and sales work?

Time and Sales would still work as you are still getting each tick (trade).

Footprint and similar would still work.

If you use something that requires depth beyond the inside bid/ask, it would not work.

Mike

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  #193 (permalink)
 optionzen 
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What happens if you are using 2 brokers clearing through same data vendor. Let's say rethmic feed from 2 brokers/2 different accounts.

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  #194 (permalink)
 optionzen 
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optionzen View Post
What happens if you are using 2 brokers clearing through same data vendor. Let's say rethmic feed from 2 brokers/2 different accounts. Would you pay cme fees 2 times.

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  #195 (permalink)
 tturner86 
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optionzen View Post
What happens if you are using 2 brokers clearing through same data vendor. Let's say rethmic feed from 2 brokers/2 different accounts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Interesting question, just emailed my broker.

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  #196 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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optionzen View Post
What happens if you are using 2 brokers clearing through same data vendor. Let's say rethmic feed from 2 brokers/2 different accounts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Credentials to each account would be different, so from the exchange perspectives you are using 2 screens.
You don't clear your trades via the data vendor but the FCM.
Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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 Itchymoku 
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I kind of got a vague answer from my broker saying 1. there would be no delay in execution compared to the depth of market fee but he doesn't have anyone trying it with just top of the book so he doesn't know. He had one of this assistants test it out. He tried to call me but I was away.

Basically I'm just trying to figure out what the difference is trading top of the book if any at all other than not being able to see the depth on the dom

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  #198 (permalink)
 iqgod 
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... are you now paying $85 monthly fees as stated in the notice?

Question for @NinjaTrader and anyone else experienced:

If an LLC opens an account with NinjaTrader Brokerage they would be hit by this fee, right?

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 Big Mike 
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iqgod View Post
... are you now paying $85 monthly fees as stated in the notice?

Question for @NinjaTrader and anyone else experienced:

If an LLC opens an account with NinjaTrader Brokerage they would be hit by this fee, right?

This was covered in the NT Brokerage webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT) last week, I recommend watching it.

Mike

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 SMCJB 
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SMCJB View Post
Bryan T. Durkin
Chief Operating Officer

June 6, 2014

In November 2013, CME Group announced that the company would discontinue the waiver for its market data fees on trading terminals. We listened to your feedback, and understand that in today’s marketplace there can be a need for a single user to access multiple screens for market data. To prevent customers from paying multiple fees for a single user, we will offer “netting,” or a pay-per-user model across our membership base. This will be available to individual members, employees of member firms and Introducing Brokers who receive data from their clearing member firm.

Members who choose to participate must contract directly with CME Group and will need to provide specific details around market data use. This program will begin in 2015.

We will be providing additional information in the coming weeks on the enrollment process. If you have any immediate questions, please contact the market data team at marketdata@cmegroup.com or at 312.634.8395.

Bryan T. Durkin

Member Netting Program

As a follow up to the market data memo dated June 6, 2014 from Bryan Durkin, Members who wish to participate in the netting program should now visit the “Members” tab at https://www.cmegroup.com/data-for-members for detailed instructions on the enrollment process. Any member choosing to participate will need to execute the appropriate agreement(s) and register with the market data team.

For questions related to the netting program, please visit https://www.cmegroup.com/data-for-members and/or contact

CME Americas Market Data Team at marketdata@cmegroup.com or 312-634-8395
CME EMEA Market Data Team at marketdataEMEA@cmegroup.com or +44 (0) 203-379-3856

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