I have been with AMP for about a year now with no complaints. At one point I felt I was paying higher commissions than I should be so I contacted them and they lowered their fees immediately. I also believe they will match any written commission quote. I dont really know much about Mirus though.
As FCM Amp should be clearing on it´s own, right?
Also they say that they do not involve in any form of prop trading, that should be safer than MFGlobal or PFGBest.
Did anyone have problems with them with regard to trading/execution with CQG (i don´t expect handholding from a discount brokerage anyway, maybe Amp changed "tone", also marketing wise, over the last years?).
If there would be suspicous activity going on like frontrunning orders, delays, slippage etc. or even maybe keeping loosing trader´s orders in it´s own books that would be the "clearing futures merchant". (Taking the other side of the customer, i think, is not legit in futures anyways. With all the market making brokers for stocks like goldman or CFD/spot FX retail brokers, there is a conflict of interest)
Like ThatManFromTexas already said above:
"Since neither firm does their own clearing .... isn't your risk with the clearing firm ... not the brokerage?
Should we be asking which Clearing firm is the best? "
So who clears finally is accountable for the quality of execution/trading. Must be then CQG, Rithmic for Zenfire as they finally execute the orders with the exchange? Trade with FCM Partners
Then the issue with Amp some fellow members here have may be more on the communication style side than trading quality. As most traders loose heavily this must be not too easy for brokers as well.
As i understood PFG traded themselves (massively and not successfully), the issue was not customer´s accounts loosing so much to ruin the company, being no risk management there.
Amp by their own words don´t have any own trading departement and they will cut losses on customer accounts after -80%/day by default.
If there is no tech/execution issues i still have no better option to get the CQG quality for live trading without having too much fixed costs during my (hopefully ascending) learning curve with futures.
I was referring to AMP and Mirus as brokers since neither was an FCM.
So let me restate my question...
"Since neither firm is an FCM .... isn't your risk with the clearing firm ... not the brokerage?
Should we be asking which Clearing firm is the best? "
I trade through Mirus/RCG ... isn't my money at risk with RCG?
Does RCG trade their own accounts?
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Based on my understanding:
Dorman is a clearing FCM, as is Rosenthal. Mirus is an Independent Introducing Broker, which means they have to meet certain accounting and capital requirements:
Based on statements released by the firms, to my understanding, Dorman, RCG, and Mirus have all stated they do not have any proprietary trading.
The only way to really deal with the risk, in my opinion, is for the CFTC to introduce insurance regulations like exists in the equities markets. I have multiple accounts and spread things out that way, and I sleep perfectly fine at night. I am not worried about risk of any single account.
I thought that the current owner of 7ticks is Interactive Data Corp, also owner of eSignal. I've looked at jobs at 7ticks and their job listings are at Interactive.
I have a question about zen-fire and rithmic. Do you need to change the license at ninja trader to move between these two? Once you login, is it the same service, or does zen-fire have their own servers so basically it has no commonality with rithmic?
To the best of my knowledge you don't need to change the license key when you switch providers.
BUT, NinjaTrader has to change the provider on their end so you can route the orders via the right provider.
Therefore, you should get in touch with them once you decided on a provider.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Hi,
We are pleased to announce that Mirus Futures is now participating in our special Elite Partner offers, and is offering a $200 commission credit for new accounts.
Note: Big Mike Trading does not receive compensation for these referrals, we simply worked out these special deals to help our Elite Members who have chosen to support the site. Even though we believe these are great products and services, you should always do your own research before doing business with a company.
I am running a automated strategie in multicharts and i like to know if there is a big difference in execution between simulated autotrading and realtime autotrading?
I'm just about to switch from Mirus/Zen Fire, probably to AMP. This is because Mirus/Zen Fire have casually dropped trading in DAX and FTSE futures, to "improve their service"
I guess products outside the US aren't really important to them.
As Mirus continues to drive towards evolving technology advancements, our focus has been on supporting the core exchange for active ZenFire traders. We continue to serve customers through the CME group of exchanges, ICE, and EUREX. You can read our notice regarding support for less demanded exchanges here.
If you have any questions about Mirus Futures please send me a Private Message.
Sorry, it sounds just like spin. If ZF wanted to improve core support they could have just stuck a server in London to deal with NYSE Liffe. As for concentrating on core 'in demand' exchanges, I suppose MGEX is one of those, with its 6,000 contracts a day, compared to FTSE at 100,000 and 16 dollars a tick.
Your appreciation of UK products is further demonstrated by your remark that we can just trade suitable alternatives in the US. Really? What's the equivalent US product for the FTSE 100?
So much for Global trading.
(my figures and assumptions may be way out - I really don't have the motivation to check)
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Moderator Notice
It has come to my attention from multiple users that AMP Trading/AMP Global is threatening to close trading accounts against users who share their experiences about AMP Trading on futures.io (formerly BMT).
If this has happened to you, please contact me ASAP.
Personally, I would stay FAR away from AMP. The low margins and "cheap" RT's do not make up for the rude, low quality service and lack of professionalism I received.
I'm no longer with them and good riddance!!
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Have you received any positive responses to your inquiry regarding AMP closing/threatening to close accounts? I am considering an account with them and want to know. Thanks!
The Mirus/Zenfire problems are temporary. The problems with AMP are not.
Even with these problems, Mirus is better. I would stay as far away from AMP as possible. I had an account with them ( I closed my AMP account ) and I would only recommend AMP to a person I hated.
If you are thinking about leaving Mirus, there are better options like Optimus and Deep Discount Trading.
I respect your strong opinion of AMP, if they have treated you badly then you deserve to feel the way you do, however I would express the exact same level of discontent about Mirus. Their technical problems may be temporary, they may also not be, but the way in which they have treated their customers says a lot about the "culture" of the company. They have been absolutely uncaring, uncommunicative, and insincere in any apologies that they have made which has been obvious by the lies that they have padded their statements with.... So I'm calling "poopeyhead" on both of them...
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May I ask, what problems with Mirus we are talking about? I am contemplating an account with Mirus and am very interested. Thanks!
Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent! Calvin Coolidge
Connors, if I may ask, why are you leaving AMP? I'm still torn between both Mirus & AMP. I'm currently use Tradestation but want to leave once I finish converting my automated strategies to Ninjatrader.
I just have a demo with AMP at the moment. I too am trying to decide between them.
Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent! Calvin Coolidge
Hi guys
I'm not sure if this is exactly the right thread to be posting in but I have a query regarding the CQG datafeed on the AMP Futures DEMO. I am backtesting an automated strategy on NT for the CL contract over a 15 month data period. Does anybody know what the resolution of the historical data is? Tick or minute data? As I'm using a 3 tick renko to backtest the strategy, this is quite a critical issue. Would be great if somebody could come back on this or point me in the right direction...
Many thanks
e
Does AMP automatically prevent you from trading a contract that is getting close to rollover? I was unable to make an order and this is what I got,
"Position limit for the contract F.US.GCE.G14 is 0, worst case position is 1 affected Order: Buy 1 Market"
Called the trade desk and I was told to call back in the morning to talk to the normal guys. He had no idea how to help me, is the night shift. So, I tried to buy GC 04-14, and that went through. I don't rollover to 04-14 for at least another week, basically when the volume is greater than the previous contract.
So, did not get a good answer on what exactly is going on, but was assured it would not happen again. It is also not a quick fix they are "looking into the software."
Hi guys
Following on from your very helpful responses regarding the backfill data I receive with AMP/CQG, I understand now that this is tick data held on NT's own servers and does not come from AMP/CQG. As I am in the process of designing a backtesting/optimisation programme using a custom renko bar type (Logik Ultimate Renko) that only accepts tick data, I need to understand a little more about the exact nature of the tick data provided by NT.
Two questions:
1. Where does NT source this tick data?
2. How far back is the tick data available on backfill for common instruments such as CL, ES, FGBL, 6E, FDAX and 6A?
On a more general note should I really be looking to purchase tick data from a vendor such as CQG if I am to be confident about backtesting results rather than relying on backfill tick data?
I realise I've probably gone off thread here so apologies are due. If appropriate, please direct me to the correct place to ask this question?
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
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well let's see...
these things are very fluid in nature, as to which firm responds to criticism and improves over which remains incalcitrent and unresponsive to complaints
however, in my opinion AMP is better by quite a few stages, or as we say in the S&P pit, quite a few handles.
congrats AMP!
as far as Mirus,
not another dollar of business from me.
... this Zenfire and denial of a stable execution transmission and stable pricing was the breaking point followed by
... incomplete communications during this fiasco from Dec 2013 - Feb 2013 followed by
.... their insistent platform / activity fees, as if they were worthy of such, followed by
.... the upset to usage by requiring switch over to a more expensive Continum platform, followed by
.... not competitively offering cash indices as other brokers using the CQG services offered. followed by
..... .... ....
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
Trading: EMD, 6J, ZB
Posts: 798 since Oct 2009
AMP Futures!, by far is better than Mirus.
It seems that both brokers are leveraging themselves for handling clients on a impersonal basis, where you no longer have a direct personal contact with a broker / representative of the company, but this clinical, cold, sterile notion of a department handles your account and interactions with the brokerage.
So, why the definitive statement. Validate and verify it for yourself, and simply call both, and you'll choose the alphabetical leader over the laggard. They simply aren't nothing of what they used to be, in my opinion, especially after Tony P. left.
Either way to sunday, watch any broker you use and verify price action at, around and just after you receive confirmation of your trade's execution just to make sure you're getting the stated and advertised prices in the marketplace.
When you notice slippage, start sounding the alarms on these public forums, because at that point of noticing such irregularities, you can't possibly challenge and succeed against the game being rigged. The only thing(s) you can do, are be alert, notify others and sit back and watch for confirmation from others because they're noticing same.
Perhaps that's what others, who rang the bell, noticed with the pricing that the previous zenfire feeds were showing against other traders using other pricing / execution venues..... Perhaps, but who really knows?
I have been with Mirus for 5 or 6 years now, I trade CL exclusively. My experience with Mirus up until the zenfire debacle was neither good nor bad. I previously used Tradestation and so don't have a good apples to apples comparison for Mirus. They basically never went out of their way to help but help was seldom needed... up until the debacle.
During the debacle they were worthless. Even after the issue was fixed I could not connect through the new Dorman settings and called their tech support twice a day for a week to try to get them to figure out what was wrong. Every call we basically had to start over from scratch trying to diagnose the issue as if they had amnesia even though I spoke to the same tech support guy. Eventually I just googled the error message and found the problem on a Ninjatrader support forum that basically said it was a faulty broker setting, and when I pointed out the thread to their tech support they were able to fix the problem on their end.
Even after this, I still stuck with them figuring I would give them a second chance considering that this was the first major fail in 6 years I had been with them.
Then about 2 months ago or so, I got an unexpected margin error when placing a trade. I thought WTF ? I called their trading desk and the guy told me that I was trading too many contracts. I told him that I was trading the same number of contracts that I had for many months and that according to my calculations I should have enough margin, using the $750/contract intraday margin for CL that I was told was in effect once dorman took over.
Turns out, that unbeknownst to me, they had doubled their margin requirements to $1500/contract. No email, no nothing. Just bam.
Now I'm probably going to switch over to AMP only because they offer $1000/contract on CL. Leverage is key for me. Mirus told me they have a management meeting the last week of June where they will re-evaluate margins and possibly lower them. If they lower CL back to $1000 I'll stick with them only because I want to save the trouble of opening a new account etc etc.
But really, one more strike and they're gone.
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Been on AMP since the beginning of the year after being badly let down by Mirus. So far, I can't fault them.
I'm amazed that some people have given Mirus so long to get their act together. At the end of the day the markets are tough enough to trade. Just give me a stable platform and feed and I'm happy.
The following user says Thank You to tradersimon for this post:
Temped by the lower margin I just opened an account with AMP & Mirus. Reading all the comments regarding AMP & Mirus, I am a bit spooked now. Coming from IB I'll keep those who wants to know updated about the progress of everything, worst case > keep using IB
Mark
The following user says Thank You to EuroMark for this post:
Don't be spooked by Mirus.. It has been taken over by NT and re-branded as NinjaTrader Brokerage, so you're in good hands now.
If I were you, I would quit AMP. If they can sue Big Mike and made a rude comment on NT in Elite Trader (which they have since corrected when I just checked), I cannot trust such a broker..
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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I saw that.
It also seems some people are not paying close attention to what they are being quoted, and might be confusing "commissions" with "all-in". Some brokers are quoting "commission" but not clearly spelling out they are charging an additional "clearing" fee, where others have no such "clearing" fee. The importance is in the all-in grand total.
It's important to look at all the factors and pick a reputable broker after doing your due diligence.
I just wanted to re-iterate as its a very key point made by @bigmike. If you're doing business you need to know the cost you're incurring. For me all traders should know these essentials otherwise don't be surprised if your broker ends up charging you over the odds, remember this may also be unintentional. So well worth knowing how the 'all-in' fee you're quoted is constructed for yourself. IB are very good for quote transparency in my experience, its all out there on the site, like to see more of that kind of transparency from more brokers.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Yes, and it is very important that even if you are quoted a fair price without a "clearing fee", make certain you carefully check your statements after your trades to ensure that is the price you are actually receiving.
And I would argue that most importantly, if there is something wrong you need to speak up to the NFA and CFTC. Don't just attribute it to an unintentional mistake. Let the regulating bodies decide that because they can look at the data en masse.
The only reason why I am opening a new account is that AMP as well as Mirus require less margin. Since I make money by scalping the $500 margin with most of the instruments and the $2500 margin for FDAX is very temping to lure me in
So far: my application has already been approved with AMP, but haven't heard anything from Dorman yet. So I forwarded my reply to Ninja Trader support requesting them to forward it to the right division.
So far 1-0 for AMP vs Mirus/Dorman
Will keep you updated when it comes to trading and commission with at least one of them compared to IB
Just got an answer from NT about my NTBrokerage/Dorman application.
I got the answer from NT (Damn good customer service btw) but nothing from Dorman yet.
so far: AMP vs Mirus/Dorman 1:0 and for NT Customer service
On my AMP account I have never been charged fees for cancelling or changing an order on Eurex.
If you are looking for AMP themselves to confirm this here, you will not get a reply as they are banned from posting here. So you will need to email your AMP broker directly.
Platform: Jforex, MetaTrader4, NinjaTrader, MultiCharts, Sierra Chart
Trading: TF, NG, CL, GC, FDAX, FGBL
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I've been with both brokers, and my experience was:
*Mirus*
Very efficient, good service, never had a problem with them.
*AMP*
The lowest commission that I know, if you don't mind connecting to TTnet. (If you only connect to CQG/Continuum and you have a lifetime license of Ninjatrader, then the new Ninjatrader Brokerage has lower commission).
AMP has the poorest service I've encountered among brokerage firms; I can't even recall the number of my emails that they either ignored or responded partially! So yeah, if you don't care about service...
As promised I will keep those who are interested updated about the progress of my application/trading experience with at least one of the 2 brokers.
My account has already been approved after providing the usual requirements such as passport, prove of address... so far so good with AMP (Only need to fund it, but still hesitating cause I am not really willing to help the enemy of my BRO "Mike" of this website)
On the other hand,
With NinjaTrader Brokerage they ask me all kinds of things. The problem is when they asked my name and family name (during application) I filled in as they asked. Now they fuss about the letter of my second name as stated on my bank statement and my passport. Duhhh, if you don't ask for my NAMES you will get only my name, since I am not going to say I am Jonathan David Marcus Micheal Davenport.
Second of all, they asked about my business. Is it of their concern??? NO!!! (but ok, I politely answered)
BUT then,
Dorman/NinjaTrader Brokerage asked me about another prove such as a utility bill which will prove my name (as if my passport is saying otherwise). I got so pissed, so I said "NO" so I send them a statement of my American Express Centurion card, and explained them they can read all about the American Express "Black card" on the net or even call American Express, and then decide whether I am a valuable new customer or not.
Thank you steve2222, IB charges cancellation/modification fee, but you do get E2.50 credit when your order gets filled. So when you get in and get out you got E 5.- credit (enough to cancel/modify 10 x E .50=0)
That's one of the reasons why I consider opening another account somewhere else.
Hi @EuroMark what is the point of your postings, I mean yes they ask questions, after all it's an application to do business with them(the broker)??
Either you open or you don't, who is holding the gun to your head-- if you are upset or not comfortable--move on to a different broker. Not like there are not many to chose from!
Wish you the best in whatever is yu decide
I have had excellent service from AMP for several years now. I use CQG, TTnet and Rithmic on multiple accounts there and they provide great support for all of the feeds and different platforms I use there. Multicharts, Rithmic trader, Xtrader and Sierra charts.
I have many different feeds to choose from and platforms also. Never had a mistake on statements, fees or commissions.
They have been great for me.
I also use TD , and Vision. I used Dorman previously but was not impressed with their service.
Thumbs up for AMP from me.
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Platform: Jforex, MetaTrader4, NinjaTrader, MultiCharts, Sierra Chart
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Excellent service?? Never had a mistake on statements??
You must have a huge account in order for them to treat you with this kind of respect.
It's simply not what I experienced from AMP Futures, not at all.
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If you're looking for cheap commissions, great margins, great technology, it's hard to beat AMP. If you are looking for a lot of hand holding and great customer service, you're better off taking your business elsewhere. As long as my technology is working well, I don't really need customer service. I've been with AMP for a long time and I've never had an issue that required much customer service. All I really care is that I can enter and exit my orders quickly and for a low cost. I had an internet outage once and called the trade desk and I was out of my positions within 30 seconds, that's all the customer service that I care about. I take care of the rest myself.
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Over here in The Netherlands, all formal letters are written: M.K. Douglas in stead of Micheal K. Douglas unlike in the States. Any Dutch person in here can confirm that.
I was about to give up until I bumped into a US letter from Club Carlson. Sending them this letter along with my lifetime License key from Ninja Trader and the approval from AMP Futures, I got approved. Hallelujahhhhhhhh I guess they just didn't want to see me leaving to AMP
As soon I fund my account and know more about the Ninja Trader Brokerage, I'll let you guys know.
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I was looking to open a second account but after reading through a lot of posts on this thread, I have decided to give Amp a miss and put more funds into my Ninja trader account. Anymore advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for all the info.
The following user says Thank You to Fxfutures1976 for this post:
damn, am glad i decided to swing by here after ages. finally, after dicking around in SPOT FX, it seems i have come to my senses and decided to go futures all the way. i got taken in by AMP (haven't submitted all the docs yet) and after some more digging around started to notice there seem to be a lot of additional fees on top of the 'lowest' comish. mmhhh
so... still looking for a futures broker. where can find out more about this story of lawsuit? (sounds completely outlandish, what happened?)
jesus! i thought this was not possible with exchange traded instruments. so not much difference between shady OTC SPOT and futures brokers. then why switch over to futures when SPOT FX is so much less of a headache?
for NT Customer service
