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Good Futures Brokerage in Canada?


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Good Futures Brokerage in Canada?

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  #1 (permalink)
 olobay 
Montreal
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: IB Canada/Rithmic
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After getting burned with PFGBest, I want my next broker to be located in Canada so at least I am protected by IIROC and/or CIPF. So other than IB Canada or RJOB Canada, does anybody have a good brokerage to recommend located in Canada?

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Why not IB?

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  #4 (permalink)
 olobay 
Montreal
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Big Mike View Post
Why not IB?

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That's who I am leaning towards but I was wondering if there were other options.

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  #5 (permalink)
 superpete 
Montreal, Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Optimus Trading Group/Rithmic
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Whats RJOB Canada?

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  #6 (permalink)
 olobay 
Montreal
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: IB Canada/Rithmic
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superpete View Post
Whats RJOB Canada?

RJ O'Brien.

R.J.O'Brien & Associates Canada Inc - Home

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  #7 (permalink)
 AdamGG 
Windsor Ontario
 
Experience: Beginner
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You can setup an account with TD Waterhouse and thru them you can get an account with TD Waterhouse Think or Swim (TOS). It is somehow affiliated with TD Ameritrade which is owned by TD I believe. You can trade US equities, options, futures, etc. The money transfers are handled thru your TD account.

AdamGG

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  #8 (permalink)
 jungian 
Ontario
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus/ZF
Trading: ES, 6E, CL
 
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Posts: 99 since Aug 2009
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I am in the same boat...finding a good Canadian broker.

Any idea re: commissions and margins for TD TOS vs IB? Also, charting?

As far as margins compared to U.S. as you all know, they are a bit hefty in Canada... Must be our conserative (hint hint Harper) nature....

https://www.interactivebrokers.ca/en/p.php?f=marginCA

For example for CL during normal trading hours (9:30am to 4pm)

Intraday Initial 4028
Intraday Maintenance 2984

After hours they jump to $8055 and $5967 for Initial and Maintenanc Respectively.

For ES

Intraday Initial $2188
Intraday Maintenance $1750

After hours $4375 $3500


For 6E (Euro)

Intraday Initial $4050
Intraday Maintenance N/A

Overnight Maintenance $3000





Any idea on Roundtrip prices (all in) for Think of Swim vs IB?

Thanks
Jungian

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  #9 (permalink)
 AdamGG 
Windsor Ontario
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
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TOS commissions are higher than IB however the data and software are free. The TOS platform includes charting and execution - lots of tools and customizable with extensive options support. You can monitor/trade futures, options, equities etc from one platform and save specific program setups.
If I remember correctly you also have to setup a margin account with TDWaterhouse Active Trader. A bit clunky but you get access to CDN and US equities etc (not futures). OK for maybe swing or longer trades but a bit pricey for day trading equities. ($7 RT)
If you trade lots of futures contracts then using a low commission US broker is probably in your interest or maybe IB - I don't know much about IB (they are discussed here somewhere).
You can get more info at TD Waterhouse | Investment and Wealth Management Services and search Think or Swim.
I have a couple of futures brokerage accounts in the US and I don't currently use my TOS account that much however I will be using it more in the future. The reason being to spread the risk around. One model that I will use only requires a couple of trades per day, the extra commission and higher margin are not a big factor.
For more active futures day trading my approach is to utilize the low margin requirements and low commissions at a couple of US brokers (AMP, Mirius, etc - take your pick). With $400-$500 margin (ES Futures) and I estimate potential drawdowns based on my risk model and keep that in margin account. Say at 1% risk model (per day), on say a 50K allocation thats a potential $500/day risk, set up for 10 days of full loss = $5k. So if you trade 5 cars (10K allocated per car) that would be margin $2500 plus risk $5000 = $7500 deposited in broker account.
The balance of your 50k allocation can be used to generate a return elsewhere (accessible).

In this day and age it is difficult to figure out who is solid. Diversity is one method to reduce risk. Its hard enough to win - not good if it then gets stolen.


Best of luck

AdamGG

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  #10 (permalink)
 AdamGG 
Windsor Ontario
 
Experience: Beginner
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Trading: ES
 
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I was just checking with TOS (Canadian account) and you cannot trade futures.

I will have to re-adjust my plans.

AdamGG

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  #11 (permalink)
 jungian 
Ontario
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus/ZF
Trading: ES, 6E, CL
 
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Thanks Adam for the post...

I did infact notice that TD TOS does not offer futures.

Looks like IB is the logical choice.

Thx
Jungian

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  #12 (permalink)
 jungian 
Ontario
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus/ZF
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Posts: 99 since Aug 2009
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As far as RJ Obrien they have similar margins to IB but have very hefty commissions.

In live chat I was quoted at $7.00 R/T for CL, 6E.

Dont quote me on that as being gospel... do your own homework on RJO.

Jungian

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  #13 (permalink)
 olobay 
Montreal
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: IB Canada/Rithmic
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I think Open E-Cry also has a brokerage in Canada.

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  #14 (permalink)
 dario1 
Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: None
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Broker: IB
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AdamGG View Post
You can setup an account with TD Waterhouse and thru them you can get an account with TD Waterhouse Think or Swim (TOS). It is somehow affiliated with TD Ameritrade which is owned by TD I believe. You can trade US equities, options, futures, etc. The money transfers are handled thru your TD account.

AdamGG

This must be recent development because I tried to do that with TD last year with no success

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  #15 (permalink)
 AdamGG 
Windsor Ontario
 
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dario1 View Post
This must be recent development because I tried to do that with TD last year with no success

Yeah, I was mistaken..... I think I corrected the issue in an earlier post... anyway, with TD-TOS you can paper trade US Futures but cannot trade live. They don't have any schedule where that might happen. I have since opened an account with IB - they have the best rates it appears and can fund/withdraw with ACH. Checked out R.J. O'Brien but too expensive. Also have a couple US Chicago based. I feel more comfortable spreading it around a bit.

Cheers!

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  #16 (permalink)
 dario1 
Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: None
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Broker: IB
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AdamGG View Post
Yeah, I was mistaken..... I think I corrected the issue in an earlier post... anyway, with TD-TOS you can paper trade US Futures but cannot trade live. They don't have any schedule where that might happen. I have since opened an account with IB - they have the best rates it appears and can fund/withdraw with ACH. Checked out R.J. O'Brien but too expensive. Also have a couple US Chicago based. I feel more comfortable spreading it around a bit.

Cheers!


Iím with Canadian shops only and only with CIPF Members.
D

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  #17 (permalink)
 frosty 
St. John's
 
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I use IB for futures. Trading through NinjaTrader. Been very pleased with the setup for the past few years.
IB is great for stocks and options. Commissions are good for both.
I have a Mirus account for futures as well. Commissions and margins much better there for futures vs IB.
Only wish IB had RRSP or TFSA

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  #18 (permalink)
 Don Double U 
Burnaby, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I just started using IB in Canada as I have not found a US broker that does both futures and forex that will take residents of British Columbia.

The data feed that IB provides has several problems that make it very difficult to trade with. Has anyone had a similar experience?

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  #19 (permalink)
 Cerberus 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Don Double U View Post
I just started using IB in Canada as I have not found a US broker that does both futures and forex that will take residents of British Columbia.

The data feed that IB provides has several problems that make it very difficult to trade with. Has anyone had a similar experience?

What issues do you experience with IB feed? I did not notice anything irregular other than the
occasional 3 second feed disruption. I use IB for many years and no matter what internet service
the feed brown out always happened abt once per 8 hour period.

Finding a US broker that will accept BC traders is a problem, never mind futures and forex. I would
be happy with just a futures broker willing to make an exception.

C

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  #20 (permalink)
 Don Double U 
Burnaby, Canada
 
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IB limits the amount of data that you can request in a 5 minute period. The platform as limitations for historical data request and rejects any further requests for 5 minutes. "Pacing Violation" is what the call it. My work around is that when I open NinjaTrader I have to have a workspace with very little in it and then slowly request data (opening market analyzers and charts) until I have enough data to get me going and then gradually request the remainder. I was told that the better option is to buy a separate data feed such as Kinetck.

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  #21 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
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Did anybody try AMP Futures? Do they even take Canadian customers?

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  #22 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
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frosty View Post
I use IB for futures. Trading through NinjaTrader. Been very pleased with the setup for the past few years.
IB is great for stocks and options. Commissions are good for both.
I have a Mirus account for futures as well. Commissions and margins much better there for futures vs IB.
Only wish IB had RRSP or TFSA

So Mirus take Canadian customers with no problems? Who do you use mainly, IB or Mirus?

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  #23 (permalink)
 Beljevina 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MT4
Broker: Amp/CQG, Citibank
Trading: CL, GC, 6E, ES, TF, EURUSD, GBPJPY, AUDUSD
 
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PavelFD View Post
Did anybody try AMP Futures? Do they even take Canadian customers?

They accept Ontario customers. Using them is pretty much a borderless issue for me; it's a little tricky wiring your 1st deposit, if it is in CAD and you want to keep your capital in CAD. (there's a intermediary bank involved in the wiring.) On Mirus, I think they accept Ontario customers.

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  #24 (permalink)
 Don Double U 
Burnaby, Canada
 
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My understanding is that Mirus only takes clients from Alberta, Ontario, and Nova Scotia through the Rosenthal Collins Group. If anyone knows differently please let me know.

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  #25 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
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Beljevina View Post
They accept Ontario customers. Using them is pretty much a borderless issue for me; it's a little tricky wiring your 1st deposit, if it is in CAD and you want to keep your capital in CAD. (there's a intermediary bank involved in the wiring.) On Mirus, I think they accept Ontario customers.

So out of the three (IB, Mirus and AMP), any major differences?
I am trying to get into futures and looking for a broker. Probably will be using NinjaTrader.

Thanks!

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  #26 (permalink)
 Beljevina 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MT4
Broker: Amp/CQG, Citibank
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PavelFD View Post
So out of the three (IB, Mirus and AMP), any major differences?
I am trying to get into futures and looking for a broker. Probably will be using NinjaTrader.

Thanks!

IB filters their price feed, so using volume ladders (GOM), wouldn't provide you the full picture. Amp has free CQG, which has it's historical data coming from the NT folks (their servers), hence it is quasi-CQG. They've been hiccupping a little much lately, but they say there's an API fix that should better things; I have seen no downtime that I am aware of, in the last few weeks. I think Zenfire is free via Amp as well; except for a $25/month inactivity fee. I don't know about Mirus datafeed costing or what options they offer, but both Mirus and Amp offer NT as a supported platform. (With IB, there are some further oddities I believe, when it comes to historical data via NT7)

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 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
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Trading: ES
 
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Beljevina View Post
IB filters their price feed, so using volume ladders (GOM), wouldn't provide you the full picture. Amp has free CQG, which has it's historical data coming from the NT folks (their servers), hence it is quasi-CQG. They've been hiccupping a little much lately, but they say there's an API fix that should better things; I have seen no downtime that I am aware of, in the last few weeks. I think Zenfire is free via Amp as well; except for a $25/month inactivity fee. I don't know about Mirus datafeed costing or what options they offer, but both Mirus and Amp offer NT as a supported platform. (With IB, there are some further oddities I believe, when it comes to historical data via NT7)

Thanks for the info!
Are there any legal issues when you use US broker? I mean will the money be safe with them?
I've used Questrade for some time for stocks and options, never worried much because they are local.

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  #28 (permalink)
 Beljevina 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MT4
Broker: Amp/CQG, Citibank
Trading: CL, GC, 6E, ES, TF, EURUSD, GBPJPY, AUDUSD
 
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PavelFD View Post
Thanks for the info!
Are there any legal issues when you use US broker? I mean will the money be safe with them?
I've used Questrade for some time for stocks and options, never worried much because they are local.

There's certainly no Canadian based legal issues. In terms of safety ... hmmm ... none of them have any sort of principle protection I believe; Amp has issued a few statements on funds segregation and the fact that no in-house trading of any type occurs. Depending on your perspective, PFG had all sorts of "we are great" marketing too. Separately, there's a thread around here where all futures brokers were ranked by a 3rd party entity on various business aspects, and, Amp did reasonably well; not sure about others, although Mirus has a huge amount of respect too; check their respective threads.

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 AdamGG 
Windsor Ontario
 
Experience: Beginner
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PavelFD:

>I use IB for futures. Trading through NinjaTrader. Been very pleased with the setup for the past few years.
>IB is great for stocks and options. Commissions are good for both.
>I have a Mirus account for futures as well. Commissions and margins much better there for futures vs IB.
>Only wish IB had RRSP or TFSA

I did have an account with AMP but had to transfer funds thru JPM in London (you know, where the laws are loose...), didn't feel too comfortable about that. Got an account for future/stock/option threading with IB and can transfer direct from my Canadian bank account... Commissions aren't too bad and haven't had any problems to date. I use N7 as execution thru IB with a Zenfire feed that I have with another broker. I don't use the IB feed and it works fine.

You could get Kinetic for N7 and trade thru IB.

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  #30 (permalink)
 Mirus Bob 
Chicago/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts, R|Trader Pro, ScalpTool
Broker: Mirus Futures; ZenFire
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Don Double U View Post
My understanding is that Mirus only takes clients from Alberta, Ontario, and Nova Scotia through the Rosenthal Collins Group. If anyone knows differently please let me know.

Customers of Mirus are currently able to open account through either of our clearing firms - Dorman Trading or Rosenthal Collins Group (RCG). Dorman accepts Canadian residents from Ontario, RCG accepts Canadian residents from Ontario and Alberta. You can find the application form for either firm on our site.

Never hesitate to reach out to one of our New Accounts or Customer Service Reps who can answer additional questions about what Mirus has to offer!info@mirusfutures.com 800-496-1683

If you have any questions about Mirus Futures please send me a Private Message.
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  #31 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
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For your information Bob there are 10 provinces in Canada. The ten provinces are Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, and Saskatchewan. I think RCG accepts Canadian residents from more than the limited list you provided.


Mirus Bob View Post
Customers of Mirus are currently able to open account through either of our clearing firms - Dorman Trading or Rosenthal Collins Group (RCG). Dorman accepts Canadian residents from Ontario, RCG accepts Canadian residents from Ontario and Alberta. You can find the application form for either firm on our site.

Never hesitate to reach out to one of our New Accounts or Customer Service Reps who can answer additional questions about what Mirus has to offer!info@mirusfutures.com 800-496-1683


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  #32 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
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Mirus Bob View Post
Customers of Mirus are currently able to open account through either of our clearing firms - Dorman Trading or Rosenthal Collins Group (RCG). Dorman accepts Canadian residents from Ontario, RCG accepts Canadian residents from Ontario and Alberta. You can find the application form for either firm on our

Never hesitate to reach out to one of our New Accounts or Customer Service Reps who can answer additional questions about what Mirus has to offer!info@mirusfutures.com 800-496-1683

I'll PM you with a few questions.

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  #33 (permalink)
 frosty 
St. John's
 
Experience: Intermediate
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PavelFD View Post
So Mirus take Canadian customers with no problems? Who do you use mainly, IB or Mirus?

I signed up to Mirus ( RCG clearing) a few years ago. From Newfoundland. Never had an issue.

I use both IB and Mirus. Mirus for futures and IB for stocks/options/ forex.
I do use IB as well for futures mostly if I forget to switch my account on Ninjatrader. Lol ( I have multi broker licence )

I haven't had a hitch with IB in abut 5 years. The ease of integration between IB and Ninjatrader is ideal for charting and execution. You can use the charting for free, but you need the licence for execution. WELL worth it though.

Transferring out money from IB to my bank account via EFT is usually about 24 to 48hours MAX which is great.

Very pleased I have to say.

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  #34 (permalink)
 superpete 
Montreal, Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Optimus Trading Group/Rithmic
Trading: CL
 
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I have a Mirus account clearing through RCG and I live in Montreal, Quebec. Good service, no problems...

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  #35 (permalink)
loonietrader
Calgary, Alberta
 
 
Posts: 29 since Jan 2012
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In regards to earlier comments regarding the high commissions of RJOBrien Canada: call them and you can negotiate your rate as long as you have some volume. If you are brand new to futures and want to stick with a company insured in Canada, IB would be the best choice. For those having issues with data and general charting delays with IB you can try closing your antivirus software while IB is open. Cleaning old JAVA files can help as well...

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  #36 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB and free NT
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
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For futures:

Having been burnt my MFGlobal I don't feel safe with USA companies.


I feel better that IB has opened up a Cdn office now.
IB Canada has a feature where your funds are rolled-over internally from your futures to your stock account (same IB account number) at the end of the trade, and in this way you have protection from the (CIPF???) fund for stock accounts.

==========> But you have to activate this!! <================


I think the datafeed is fudged from IB and I have had them fill a trade above the HOD and below the LOD. When questioned they mumbled something about the datafeed that I see isn't the one that they use to verify bad fills and trade errors.

Also they trade against you (take the other side) when they want (called "internalization"_ instead of routing your trade to the exchange. I read this you always loss a tick.

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  #37 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, Jigsaw
Trading: ES
 
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aquarian1 View Post
For futures:

Having been burnt my MFGlobal I don't feel safe with USA companies.


I feel better that IB has opened up a Cdn office now.
IB Canada has a feature where your funds are rolled-over internally from your futures to your stock account (same IB account number) at the end of the trade, and in this way you have protection from the (CIPF???) fund for stock accounts.

==========> But you have to activate this!! <================


I think the datafeed is fudged from IB and I have had them fill a trade above the HOD and below the LOD. When questioned they mumbled something about the datafeed that I see isn't the one that they use to verify bad fills and trade errors.

Also they trade against you (take the other side) when they want (called "internalization"_ instead of routing your trade to the exchange. I read this you always loss a tick.

I have a futures account with Stage5 (@Stage5 Anthony). They are based from Chicago but my funds are segregated and with BMO HARRIS BANK. Highly recommend them.

If your edge puts the odds in your favor, then every loss puts you that much closer to a win.
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  #38 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
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PavelFD View Post
I have a futures account with Stage5 (@Stage5 Anthony). They are based from Chicago but my funds are segregated and with BMO HARRIS BANK. Highly recommend them.

I'm sure they are good.

(BTW MFGlobal said clients funds were segregated as well. It turns out that means segregated into "corzine's off-shore fund" Goddarns incorrectly claimed clients funds on deposit were the firm's assets and subject to their bankruptcy. The judge is a friend of the defense attorney.
Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me.)

thanks -no thanks :-)

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  #39 (permalink)
 Canuck66 
Ottawa Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Good Day,

This thread is a year old now. Are there any Canadian traders that can share their current experience with futures brokers? I do have an IB account and am considering linking that to Ninja Trader. I guessing by using a third party feed, I can get around issues with IB data.

Thanks in advance

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  #40 (permalink)
 ChartWarrior 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, Jigsaw
Trading: ES
 
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Canuck66 View Post
Good Day,

This thread is a year old now. Are there any Canadian traders that can share their current experience with futures brokers? I do have an IB account and am considering linking that to Ninja Trader. I guessing by using a third party feed, I can get around issues with IB data.

Thanks in advance

Stage5trading.com
Talk to Anthony.
You can say Pavel from Canada referred you.
I have been a member for over a year now, amazing customer service.
I think he is a member on this forum too.

If your edge puts the odds in your favor, then every loss puts you that much closer to a win.
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  #41 (permalink)
 Canuck66 
Ottawa Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
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Trading: Emini ES
 
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PavelFD View Post
Stage5trading.com
Talk to Anthony.
You can say Pavel from Canada referred you.
I have been a member for over a year now, amazing customer service.
I think he is a member on this forum too.

Thanks very much

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  #42 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Firetip
Trading: ES YM
 
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Canuck66 View Post
Thanks very much

I just want to hear follow up. How did it go with s5? Currently there aren't many non Canadian brokers out there who will accept Canadian. I personally had few email exchanges with s5 and I was not easy with their fee pricing. I am still looking.

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  #43 (permalink)
RKeenJR
Waukegan
 
 
Posts: 4 since May 2017
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Go to AMP. They open accounts all across Canada. No BC or Manitoba.

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  #44 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Firetip
Trading: ES YM
 
Posts: 131 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 108 given, 40 received

Unfortunately I am in BC.

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  #45 (permalink)
 Narcissus 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Investor RT & Ninja
Broker: IB & IQ DTN
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 1,106 since Nov 2014
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Try S5 again. They linked up with Iron beam now for BC residents

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  #46 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader & Jigsaw
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: ZB UB
 
Posts: 143 since Dec 2016

Deep discount trading, stage 5, interactive brokers, global futures, ningabrokerage for BC. Or set up an llc in the states for other brokers, tradeovate for example


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  #47 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
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I just confirmed discount trading do offer service to bc residence, i5 do offer but 2x commission compare to other broker, global I know the fact they offer services. Ninjatrader brokerage do not offer service to canadians instead refers you to global. I just need to find out commission from ib.

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  #48 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Firetip
Trading: ES YM
 
Posts: 131 since Oct 2016
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Ib is 2.40 CAD per side. That is like 1.80 USD per side. Isn't that too much when you would have to pay exchange and other fees on top of it?

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  #49 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader & Jigsaw
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: ZB UB
 
Posts: 143 since Dec 2016

Ninja/global clear through dorman I believe


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  #50 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Firetip
Trading: ES YM
 
Posts: 131 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 108 given, 40 received

Global clears through ironbeam

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  #51 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader & Jigsaw
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: ZB UB
 
Posts: 143 since Dec 2016

Lol that's what I was thinking of sorry thanks ^


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  #52 (permalink)
 51smoker 
Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: GFF, IB
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Raider View Post
Deep discount trading, stage 5, interactive brokers, global futures, ningabrokerage for BC. Or set up an llc in the states for other brokers, tradeovate for example


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If set up an llc in the states, how will impact tax file in Canada? is the 50% taxable capital gain still applicable?

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  #53 (permalink)
 waveslider 
Victoria, BC
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Tradestation Multicharts
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Posts: 18 since Oct 2011
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I am going through this also, and from what I have learned having an LLC in the states is not a good option. For example, it would be subject to an estate tax in the event of death, etc. I currently have a Delaware LLC and am dissolving it. I am starting a Canadian Corp (in BC) and will invest through that for tax purposes. I am anticipating difficulties opening futures accounts, but I have a lot of history and do a lot of volume. We'll see

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  #54 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
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Broker: IB
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waveslider View Post
I am going through this also, and from what I have learned having an LLC in the states is not a good option. For example, it would be subject to an estate tax in the event of death, etc. I currently have a Delaware LLC and am dissolving it. I am starting a Canadian Corp (in BC) and will invest through that for tax purposes. I am anticipating difficulties opening futures accounts, but I have a lot of history and do a lot of volume. We'll see

I think you might need to think this through.


If you are at the highest personal rate in Canada (combined provincial and federal of 52%) then if you make
$10,000 capital gains profit, 50% is Taxable Capital Gains (or $5,000) and tax payable on that is ($5,000*.52=) $2,600. (see Schedule 3).

The corporation will pay the corp rate (~40% depending on the province if provincially incorporated) on profits (*) and losses are contained within the corp. If your corporation pays 40% and that is (10,000*.40=) $4,000. Then should you withdraw dividends from the corporations - ie pay yourself) you will pay tax on this at a personal level. Taxes are paid twice.

Also to note CRA has a general anti-avoidance look-through for personal corporations such that if the purpose of the corporation was to reduce taxes it will "see through" the corporation and tax you as if the corp didn't exist.

You can telephone the CRA and ask questions anonymously.
e.g. If a personal corp is set-up for investing .... etc

(And no they do not give you an advance tax ruling but yes they are required to explain how the tax act would apply to a situation you describe. And you can ask for the sections they are referring to and then read about it in the CCH handbook on the tax act at your local library - which is what they use. However, what you propose is quite simple).

----------
(*) I am assuming the profits are income for the corporation. If you have another main source of income for the corporation and these are capital gains for the corporation then 50% of the above (I believe) I have not read up on corp taxation. BTW non of the above is "expert" opinion - just a heads up based on my understanding of the tax regs.

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  #55 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB and free NT
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 4,033 since Dec 2010
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One of the few ways to defer taxes (for Cdns) is with an RSP (Cdn version of IRA).

Contributions are tax deductible in the year of contribution (+60 days meaning end of Feb). You pay taxes when you withdraw money in later years on what is withdrawn. A wide range of instruments are permissible but I believe futures and put options are excluded.

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