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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)


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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)

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  #701 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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binary View Post
have most of you received this email? or is it just me?
i never received the email even when they had seized the accounts the last day after 3.00pm

if i had not know about futures.io (formerly BMT) forum and this thread i wont know anything that pfg did / is doing...

@binary

attached is the copy that was just filled out, the first time was rejected due to adding some special character to identify my overseas segregated acct.

but then, the special character was deleted and was resent.

it was then accepted as shown in the attachment.

just copy from your statement exactly how your personal id appears, K?

best


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  #702 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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hopefully no one would need to go thru all these sequential applications for distribution again.

however, if there are some steps in between that are not included here, my apology.
-----------

--------------

---------------

-------------

-----------------


---------------------

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  #703 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
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  #704 (permalink)
 binary 
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unfortunately it does not let me in. i have sent a request on the support page. it just says submitted. does not take me to a subsequent page.
lets see if i get a response.



nakachalet View Post
hopefully no one would need to go thru all these sequential applications for distribution again.

however, if there are some steps in between that are not included here, my apology.
-----------

--------------

---------------

-------------

-----------------


---------------------


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  #705 (permalink)
 aligator 
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nakachalet View Post
hopefully no one would need to go thru all these sequential applications for distribution again.

@nakachalet,

Did you get an e-mail from them before you filled these forms. If so, It may not work for anyone who has not received an e-mail yet.

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  #706 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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binary View Post
unfortunately it does not let me in. i have sent a request on the support page. it just says submitted. does not take me to a subsequent page.
lets see if i get a response.

after submission,

did you not receive this page from rust omni in response to your submission, pls?

(sorry, i am focusing on my cl short at 91.94 at the moment)
--------------------

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  #707 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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aligator View Post
@ nakachalet,

Did you get an e-mail from them before you filled these forms. If so, It may not work for anyone who has not received an e-mail yet.

@ aligator

hi.

no, never received any official notification from rust omni nor trustee.

perhaps, they could have sent a registered mail but it would be weeks or months before any mail would get to the entrance to my cave.... l o l

but olobay's post <@ olobay--thx> could be used to gain access to rust omni though.

also, however, my acct there appeared to be different from others' in terms of having a string of numerals preceding the assigned alpha, which in itself differed from olobay's which appeared to have alpha before numerals....?

but it could be that olobay just desired to protect his/her personal privacy instead?

@ binary, if you still can not gain access, pm or email me after market closure, will try to help, K?

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  #708 (permalink)
 aligator 
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nakachalet View Post
@ aligator

hi.

no, never received any official notification from rust omni nor trustee.

perhaps, they could have sent a registered mail but it would be weeks or months before any mail would get to the entrance to my cave.... l o l

but olobay's post <@ olobay--thx> could be used to gain access to rust omni though.

also, however, my acct there appeared to be different from others' in terms of having a string of numerals preceding the assigned alpha, which in itself differed from olobay's which appeared to have alpha before numerals....?

but it could be that olobay just desired to protect his/her personal privacy instead?

@ binary, if you still can not gain access, pm or email me after market closure, will try to help, K?

@nakachalet,

I tried olobay's approach, no success. Do you have to register with Rust/Omni to be able to send them the form. On top of the page seems like an ID and a PW is needed to gain access, otherwise attempts will fail.

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  #709 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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aligator View Post
@ nakachalet,

I tried olobay's approach, no success. Do you have to register with Rust/Omni to be able to send them the form. On top of the page seems like an ID and a PW is needed to gain access, otherwise attempts will fail.

@aligator

sorry that olo's link did not work for some.

here is the live linkage to rust omni.

pls do let us know, if this link will lead you to successful registration for redistribution, K?

thx and good luck fellow traders.
----------------

you need to have your statement in front of you to proceed, K?

https://r20.rs6.net/error.jsp?e=y7j6c7n6

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  #710 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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The above process is for International customers only. Here is the e-mail I just received:

"The email regarding PFG Best Distribution Registration was intended for International customers only. All Domestic customers entitled to partial distribution of funds will be receiving a check at the address listed on their account statement. I apologize for any confusion."

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  #711 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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@ aligator
@ olobay
@ binary
@ kevinkdog and other interested traders

attached appears to be the very last copy signed by the presiding judge in reference to pfg distribution matters,

which has been continued in her court room, to Thursday, OCTOBER 4, 2012.

hope it helps to clarify many concerns and uncertainties about the upcoming pending distribution.
-----------------


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  #712 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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kevinkdog View Post
The above process is for International customers only. Here is the e-mail I just received:

"The email regarding PFG Best Distribution Registration was intended for International customers only. All Domestic customers entitled to partial distribution of funds will be receiving a check at the address listed on their account statement. I apologize for any confusion."

good news for local traders, indeed.

thx kevinkdog

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  #713 (permalink)
 walker 
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kevinkdog View Post
The above process is for International customers only. Here is the e-mail I just received:

"The email regarding PFG Best Distribution Registration was intended for International customers only. All Domestic customers entitled to partial distribution of funds will be receiving a check at the address listed on their account statement. I apologize for any confusion."

What if I have moved? Which party can I notify to update my address? Thanks in advance.

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  #714 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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walker View Post
What if I have moved? Which party can I notify to update my address? Thanks in advance.

Good question. I would probably contact the Bankruptcy Trustee, or maybe the NFA. There should be a link on the websites set up for the bankruptcy. If you have received e-mails from the NFA or Trustee, you might be able to respond to those, too.

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  #715 (permalink)
 olobay 
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Important Message for Customers of Peregrine Financial Group and Peregrine Asset Management - Updated on September 28, 2012

Important Message for Customers of Peregrine Financial Group and Peregrine Asset Management - Updated on September 28, 2012

General Information

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc. (PFG) filed for liquidation in a U.S. bankruptcy court in Chicago on July 10, 2012. Ira Bodenstein was appointed by the U.S. Trustee to act as trustee for PFG's estate. This includes marshaling and recovering the assets of PFG's estate, including customer property, and distributing those assets pursuant to the U.S. Bankruptcy Code and CFTC Part 190 rules. The Trustee has been authorized to operate PFG on a limited basis in order to wind down the business. Customers are encouraged to visit the website ( Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home) set up by the Trustee frequently to obtain current information about the case.

Customer Claim Information

Customer claim forms are now available on the Trustee's website which can be accessed by clicking here. Customers must file the applicable claim forms in order to preserve their rights to receive distributions of customer property. The forms are available based on the type of account held at PFG (futures, forex, physical precious metals, or OTC precious metals) and are due no later than 5:00 p.m. (CST) on November 16, 2012. Instructions for filing claim forms can be found beneath the forms listed on the Trustee's website.

The Trustee filed a motion on September 6, 2012 seeking approval from the court to make an interim distribution to PFG's futures customers. On September 20, 2012, the bankruptcy court entered an order granting the motion. A copy of the order containing details about the distribution can be viewed on the Trustee's website or by clicking here. Although all customers are required to submit a claim form by November 16, 2012, claim forms need not be received prior to this interim distribution.

We will continue to provide additional information as it becomes available on our website and via email.

Information for Farmers, Ranchers, and Agricultural Cooperatives

If you are a farmer, rancher, or agricultural cooperative, CME Group is accepting applications to register for benefits under the CME Group Family Farmer & Rancher Protection Fund. Information regarding the application deadline and the qualification requirements to receive benefits can be found at https://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/files/pfgbest-claims-cme-group-family-farmer-rancher-protection-fund.pdf. The application and other information about the program can be found at Family Farmer and Rancher Protection Fund. Questions relating to the program should be emailed to familyfarmerfund@cmegroup.com.

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  #716 (permalink)
 olobay 
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Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Standard Claim Form

Proof of claim forms can be filed now until Nov 16th 5:00pm CST.

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  #717 (permalink)
FCMReform
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A group of traders have started a website to try and rally support amongst PFG's forex customers: PFG Forex Metals Legal Account - Home

The Traders who have setup "Forex Metals Account LLC" have also sent out an email to PFG's forex customers updating them on the bankruptcy proceedings: Forums - PFG - What happens if you have accounts with them??


Quoting 

Our Forex and Metals monies are currently intact at JPMorgan Chase Bank and Royal Bank of Scotland as confirmed by the Trustee. You may think that because our accounts are listed in the Trustee’s documents that our accounts are safe. Initially we believed this as well. In fact, if you carefully read thru all the Motions, schedules and documents submitted to the bankruptcy court, nothing could be farther from the truth. Our accounts are at risk of being completely emptied in the current legal proceedings - effectively stealing our money in the next few weeks - and converted to pay Futures account holders and the Trustee’s law firm. We view what may be about to take place as equivalent to criminal theft/larceny. We never in our wildest dreams thought that one man or a group of lawyers could put 100 percent of our accounts at risk, do it openly, publicly, and legally get away with it. The Trustee’s Motions are designed to distribute $123 million to Futures account holders – which was approved in court on 9/20/12 – and will deplete the funds available to Forex and Metals account holders. We need to immediately protect our accounts. If we let the Trustee and the dozens of lawyers representing non-Forex and non-Metals clients take our money without doing anything about it, then we don’t have anyone else to blame but ourselves. We cannot sit idly by and watch our hard earned money be divided between creditors and other customers.

FXCM has been lobbying Congress since 2005 to include retail forex in any bankrupcy prodeeding but we have not had much success due to the hesitancy of Washington to re-open the bankruptcy code on behalf of retail forex customers. In the meantime, the PFG bankruptcy should give retail forex traders pause in regards to opening a retail forex account with a Futures Commission Merchant instead of a Retail Forex Exchange Dealer due to the disparity in treatment the two class of customers are getting in this bankruptcy.

We are also still encouraging traders to contact CFTC at secretary@cftc.gov to urge greater protections for retail forex traders.

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  #718 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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FCMReform View Post
A group of traders have started a website to try and rally support amongst PFG's forex customers: PFG Forex Metals Legal Account - Home

The Traders who have setup "Forex Metals Account LLC" have also sent out an email to PFG's forex customers updating them on the bankruptcy proceedings: Forums - PFG - What happens if you have accounts with them??



FXCM has been lobbying Congress since 2005 to include retail forex in any bankrupcy prodeeding but we have not had much success due to the hesitancy of Washington to re-open the bankruptcy code on behalf of retail forex customers. In the meantime, the PFG bankruptcy should give retail forex traders pause in regards to opening a retail forex account with a Futures Commission Merchant instead of a Retail Forex Exchange Dealer due to the disparity in treatment the two class of customers are getting in this bankruptcy.

We are also still encouraging traders to contact CFTC at secretary@cftc.gov to urge greater protections for retail forex traders.

would you provide traders with some credence and credential of, per quote:

A group of traders....

The Traders who have setup "Forex Metals Account LLC"....

i asked because i am one of those still awaiting the distribution....

thx


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  #719 (permalink)
FCMReform
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nakachalet View Post
would you provide traders with some credence and credential of, per quote:

A group of traders....

The Traders who have setup "Forex Metals Account LLC"....

i asked because i am one of those still awaiting the distribution....

thx


I can't vouch for the traders themselves. However, if you goto the website they setup they have an extensive list of FAQ's that should answer your questions: FAQs - PFG Forex Metals Legal Account

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  #720 (permalink)
FCMReform
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The Wall Street Journal is reporting that PFG's trustee is now going to address the status of PFG's retail forex customers:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1000...googlenews_wsj


Quoting 
Ira Bodenstein, the trustee liquidating Peregrine, in a notice Wednesday told holders of currency and precious metals accounts with the firm that addressing their claims was his "next agenda item," though no decisions have been made on how these will be handled or how much money these customers may get back.

"If the Bankruptcy Court concludes that payment in full to forex and metals customers is appropriate, there are sufficient funds to accomplish that outcome," Mr. Bodenstein wrote. "If the Bankruptcy Court reaches a different conclusion, there are sufficient funds to address whatever treatment of these claims that the Bankruptcy Court orders."

Of further interest to traders in the article is the NFA's support for additional legal protections, although nothing was specified.

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  #721 (permalink)
 abdunbar 
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Announcement re Customer Distributions
On October 4, 2012, the Trustee appeared before the Bankruptcy Court at a continued hearing on the Trustee’s motion to authorize an interim distribution for the benefit of future customers. The Trustee requested the entry of an order authorizing him to make a bulk transfer (the “Bulk Transfer”) to Vision Financial Markets LLC (“Vision”) of the customer funds that are subject of the interim distribution in the approximate amount of $123,000,000 and certain of the Debtor’s approximately 13,586 (4d Accounts) and 1,053 (30.7 Accounts). Vision has agreed to pay the Trustee $325,000.00 for the Bulk Transfer. The Trustee will submit a proposed order (the “Order”) to the Bankruptcy Court on October 5, 2012, which Order will authorize the Bulk Transfer. Details and other provisions regarding the Bulk Transfer will be incorporated into the Order. Upon entry of the Order, the Trustee shall cause the Bulk Transfer to occur and Vision shall accept the Bulk Transfer within ten (10) business days following the entry of the Order. Following the Bulk Transfer, Vision will hold the interim distribution amount in separate segregated or secured amount accounts for sixty (60) days during which time any holder of a covered futures account may request that Vision either return the funds, begin trading the funds at Vision or transfer the funds to another FCM. The Trustee anticipates the entry of the Order on October 5, 2012. As soon as the Order is entered, a copy will be posted on this website.

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  #722 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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abdunbar View Post
Announcement re Customer Distributions
On October 4, 2012, the Trustee appeared before the Bankruptcy Court at a continued hearing on the Trustee’s motion to authorize an interim distribution for the benefit of future customers. The Trustee requested the entry of an order authorizing him to make a bulk transfer (the “Bulk Transfer”) to Vision Financial Markets LLC (“Vision”) of the customer funds that are subject of the interim distribution in the approximate amount of $123,000,000 and certain of the Debtor’s approximately 13,586 (4d Accounts) and 1,053 (30.7 Accounts). Vision has agreed to pay the Trustee $325,000.00 for the Bulk Transfer. The Trustee will submit a proposed order (the “Order”) to the Bankruptcy Court on October 5, 2012, which Order will authorize the Bulk Transfer. Details and other provisions regarding the Bulk Transfer will be incorporated into the Order. Upon entry of the Order, the Trustee shall cause the Bulk Transfer to occur and Vision shall accept the Bulk Transfer within ten (10) business days following the entry of the Order. Following the Bulk Transfer, Vision will hold the interim distribution amount in separate segregated or secured amount accounts for sixty (60) days during which time any holder of a covered futures account may request that Vision either return the funds, begin trading the funds at Vision or transfer the funds to another FCM. The Trustee anticipates the entry of the Order on October 5, 2012. As soon as the Order is entered, a copy will be posted on this website.

Story:
Vision Financial to take control of former Peregrine accounts - Yahoo! News

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  #723 (permalink)
 abdunbar 
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Didn't pay attention when this happened at MFGlobal. Article implies that Vision bought those accounts also?

Seems the $325,000 should go to the segregated funds, not to the bankruptcy estate. And who says anyone wants an account at Vision.

My first reaction is to have it transferred to my Dorman account.

Archie

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  #724 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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abdunbar View Post
Didn't pay attention when this happened at MFGlobal. Article implies that Vision bought those accounts also?

Seems the $325,000 should go to the segregated funds, not to the bankruptcy estate. And who says anyone wants an account at Vision.

My first reaction is to have it transferred to my Dorman account.

Archie

do you have a good reliable broker to recommend, pls?

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  #725 (permalink)
 TradeWind 
tw
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nakachalet View Post
do you have a good reliable broker to recommend, pls?

@nakachalet
hey Nakachalet,
Let me know if you get any refund or any requirements from the trustee OMNI please.
Pray hard for a refund from the trustee distribution.

TradeWinds

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  #726 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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TradeWind View Post
@nakachalet
hey Nakachalet,
Let me know if you get any refund or any requirements from the trustee OMNI please.
Pray hard for a refund from the trustee distribution.

TradeWinds

alright, you'll be the very first to know, K?

and you do the same, alright?

just so all our trading bros and sis here could rejoice with us too.... LOL

maybe i should say, they ought to lament with us that we only would probably get less than 33% redistributed....

warm regards

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  #727 (permalink)
 abdunbar 
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You do know that there is a deadline to file a claim if you are an account holder?

The deadline is sometime in November.

I tried to file my claim Saturday but the website for the trustee wasn't working correctly.

Archie

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  #728 (permalink)
 TradeWind 
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abdunbar View Post
You do know that there is a deadline to file a claim if you are an account holder?

The deadline is sometime in November.

I tried to file my claim Saturday but the website for the trustee wasn't working correctly.

Archie

I did and sent them the bank's instruction for wire transfer last week.

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  #729 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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abdunbar View Post
You do know that there is a deadline to file a claim if you are an account holder?

The deadline is sometime in November.

I tried to file my claim Saturday but the website for the trustee wasn't working correctly.

Archie

Important Message for Customers of Peregrine Financial Group and Peregrine Asset Management - Updated on September 28, 2012


Quoting 
General Information

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc. (PFG) filed for liquidation in a U.S. bankruptcy court in Chicago on July 10, 2012. Ira Bodenstein was appointed by the U.S. Trustee to act as trustee for PFG's estate. This includes marshaling and recovering the assets of PFG's estate, including customer property, and distributing those assets pursuant to the U.S. Bankruptcy Code and CFTC Part 190 rules. The Trustee has been authorized to operate PFG on a limited basis in order to wind down the business. Customers are encouraged to visit the website (https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg) set up by the Trustee frequently to obtain current information about the case.

Customer Claim Information

Customer claim forms are now available on the Trustee's website which can be accessed by clicking here. Customers must file the applicable claim forms in order to preserve their rights to receive distributions of customer property. The forms are available based on the type of account held at PFG (futures, forex, physical precious metals, or OTC precious metals) and are due no later than 5:00 p.m. (CST) on November 16, 2012. Instructions for filing claim forms can be found beneath the forms listed on the Trustee's website.

The Trustee filed a motion on September 6, 2012 seeking approval from the court to make an interim distribution to PFG's futures customers. On September 20, 2012, the bankruptcy court entered an order granting the motion. A copy of the order containing details about the distribution can be viewed on the Trustee's website or by clicking here. Although all customers are required to submit a claim form by November 16, 2012, claim forms need not be received prior to this interim distribution.

We will continue to provide additional information as it becomes available on our website and via email.

Information for Farmers, Ranchers, and Agricultural Cooperatives

If you are a farmer, rancher, or agricultural cooperative, CME Group is accepting applications to register for benefits under the CME Group Family Farmer & Rancher Protection Fund. Information regarding the application deadline and the qualification requirements to receive benefits can be found at https://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/files/pfgbest-claims-cme-group-family-farmer-rancher-protection-fund.pdf. The application and other information about the program can be found at Family Farmer and Rancher Protection Fund. Questions relating to the program should be emailed to familyfarmerfund@cmegroup.com.

Mike

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  #730 (permalink)
 abdunbar 
El Paso, Texas
 
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TradeWind View Post
I did and sent them the bank's instruction for wire transfer last week.

So... it wasn't exactly clear how the claim was to be submitted. I filled out the acrobat form, printed it. Then scanned it along with my June and July 2012 statements. Next I planned to submit via the trustees website.

Did you send a hardcopy or via the website?

Now it sounds like the funds are going to Vision whether we want them to or no?

very confusing situation,

Archie

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 aligator 
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So... it wasn't exactly clear how the claim was to be submitted. I filled out the acrobat form, printed it. Then scanned it along with my June and July 2012 statements. Next I planned to submit via the trustees website.

Did you send a hardcopy or via the website?

Now it sounds like the funds are going to Vision whether we want them to or no?

very confusing situation,

Archie

I talked to Rust/Omni and my IB that worked with PFG.

The recommendation was to send by certified mail a hard copy of your claim, follow all the instructions. Include an extra copy of the claim and attachments with a self-addressed stamped envelop so that they can stamp and verify as received the extra copy and send it back to you for your records.

Everything need to be signed and dated including any attachments such as your last account statement.

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 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
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Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

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  #733 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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aligator View Post
I talked to Rust/Omni and my IB that worked with PFG.

The recommendation was to send by certified mail a hard copy of your claim, follow all the instructions. Include an extra copy of the claim and attachments with a self-addressed stamped envelop so that they can stamp and verify as received the extra copy and send it back to you for your records.

Everything need to be signed and dated including any attachments such as your last account statement.

Update
Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

@aligator

for sure. there is such possibility. and it is downright frightening too. one of our trading sisters here had been defrauded some three times, if my memory is correct. but in spite of and despite of all the frauds bestowing upon her, she is still going strong today.

isn't that right, sis?

little did some of those officials know or realize just how much it would cost to mail something important out of third world zone.

last week it costs 30 usd just to mail a usa interest bearing check originated from a new york bank which was routed to thailand instead of the designated usa bank.

no wonder, segregated accounts are being manipulated and defrauded in the usa so very often.

probably many in the industry won't even where bangkok is on a globe.... LOL

to me, it is a joke asking for anything other than verifying email and destination bank where redistribution has been designed by the acct holder whose acct has been in existence in pfg mainframe with its trading activities.

some people just do not know anything other than what evolves immediately around them.... LOL

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  #734 (permalink)
 brevco 
Denham Springs, LA
 
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nakachalet View Post
@aligator

for sure. there is such possibility. and it is downright frightening too. one of our trading sisters here had been defrauded some three times, if my memory is correct. but in spite of and despite of all the frauds bestowing upon her, she is still going strong today.

isn't that right, sis?

little did some of those officials know or realize just how much it would cost to mail something important out of third world zone.

last week it costs 30 usd just to mail a usa interest bearing check originated from a new york bank which was routed to thailand instead of the designated usa bank.

no wonder, segregated accounts are being manipulated and defrauded in the usa so very often.


probably many in the industry won't even where bangkok is on a globe.... LOL

to me, it is a joke asking for anything other than verifying email and destination bank where redistribution has been designed by the acct holder whose acct has been in existence in pfg mainframe with its trading activities.

some people just do not know anything other than what evolves immediately around them.... LOL




No, this makes the 4th....over about 25 - 30 years.

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 Big Mike 
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aligator View Post
Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

As a general rule, I would not be worried about Vision. But the only way to solve all of this is with insurance, and until that exists, there is always the possibility of anything happening.

Mike

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  #736 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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there have been several updates that set my head swaying north and south.... lol

adding to what you already knew, here is the latest received just a few minutes ago; which at the same time might already have been a late news for some around here.

whatever, it is going to be soon, ms. b.... and all;

warm regards and best trading for all....

PFGBest Update: Speeding Up | Attain Capital Managed Futures Blog

on the other hand, why not make it easier for everyone, by just cut and paste it below to save everyone's time, K?


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  #737 (permalink)
 djkiwi 
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Big Mike View Post
As a general rule, I would not be worried about Vision. But the only way to solve all of this is with insurance, and until that exists, there is always the possibility of anything happening.

Mike

Mike, that would be the ideal scenario but in my opinion highly unlikely there will be any insurance for the following reasons:

Firstly, it is highly unlikely even the riskiest insurer would take on companies with the risk profiles of Futures brokers. I have extensive experience in securing corporate insurance for much larger and less risky entities than FCMs and coverage in some cases was very difficult to obtain. Most of the policies ended up with some fairly unpalatable exclusions with very hefty premiums.

Secondly, even if FCMs could secure insurance in their own right the premiums would be so expensive it would drive many out of business. The insurers would view FCMs as an extreme risk resulting in premiums probably in the vicinity of $500k-$1m plus per FCM. Bear in mind the regulator offers no comfort to any insurance company that their risks will be protected as they have exhibited virtually no skills in implementing even the most basic financial controls.

If, for some reason the regulator was able to secure cost effective blanket coverage across the industry it would need to levy each FCM individually the cost of the coverage? How would this cost be split? Assets? Customer numbers? trading volume?

Whatever the case, insurance will result in much higher commissions as the FCMs will need to pass this cost on to their customers to recover the insurance levy. I doubt they would want to risk passing on this cost to retail customers as they would likely lose more business and certainly would struggle to win new business.

I suspect we won't see much change to the wild west of segregated bank account control. Retail traders may just have to "grit our teeth" and live in hope the regulator is able to put effective controls on these segregated accounts. Having said that, this is an extremely simple issue to resolve and put the solution here:



The only difficult issue is how to deal with daily changes in FCM bank account balances. Just because they are monitoring balances electronically isn't the whole story. What is their plan if they see say a 10% reduction in the balance in one day? It could be a large client pulling out their funds or it could be fraud? How are they going to check this? Rely on the FCM to tell them it was a client.


Cheers
DJ

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  #738 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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djkiwi View Post
Mike, that would be the ideal scenario but in my opinion highly unlikely there will be any insurance for the following reasons:

Firstly, it is highly unlikely even the riskiest insurer would take on companies with the risk profiles of Futures brokers. I have extensive experience in securing corporate insurance for much larger and less riskier entities than FCMs and coverage in some cases was very difficult to obtain. Most of the policies ended up with some fairly unpalatable exclusions with very hefty premiums.

Secondly, even if FCMs could secure insurance in their own right the premiums would be so expensive it would drive many out of business. The insurers would view FCMs as an extreme risk resulting in premiums probably in the vicinity of $500k-$1m plus per FCM. Bear in mind the regulator offers no comfort to any insurance company that their risks will be protected as they have exhibited virtually no skills in implementing even the most basic financial controls.

If, for some reason the regulator was able to secure cost effective blanket coverage across the industry it would need to levy each FCM individually the cost of the coverage? How would this cost be split? Assets? Customers numbers? trading volume?

Whatever the case, insurance will result in much higher commissions as the FCMs will need to pass this cost on to their customers to recover the insurance levy. I doubt they would want to risk passing on this cost to retail customers as they would likely lose more business and certainly would struggle to win new business.

I suspect we won't see much change to the wild west of segregated bank account control. Retail traders may just have to "grit our teeth" and live in hope the regulator is able to put effective controls on these segregated accounts. Having said that, this is an extremely simple issue to resolve and put the solution here:



The only difficult issue is how to deal with daily changes in FCM bank account balances. Just because they are monitoring balances electronically isn't the whole story. What is their plan if they see say a 10% reduction in the balance in one day? It could be a large client pulling out their funds or it could be fraud? How are they going to check this? Rely on the FCM to tell them it was a client.

Cheers
DJ

agree with practically all that was said.

however, there surely is nothing wrong with this particular segment of the futures industry to INSURE ITSELF....

the insiders know best what ought and what should....

at the end, all traders would be insured, the premium would be distributed amongst the insured and those insurers participating in the self-insurance which ultimately would benefit maximally those in the futures industry, particularly small traders.

the big humongous question would most likely be.... who are transparent enough to head up this self-insurance dept....?

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Wave
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Canadian Accounts did have Insurance and they will not lose any money so I have heard Stock accounts do have it here and
we here in the USA are way behind in Financial regulation to not have it

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 nakachalet 
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Wave View Post
Canadian Accounts did have Insurance and they will not lose any money so I have heard Stock accounts do have it here and
we here in the USA are way behind in Financial regulation to not have it

@Wave

thx

we really have no one else to finally blame, except ourselves; as much as we dislike to do that.

as an astute group of traders/investors, we would consider ourselves here as pretty sharp, won't we?

there are practically thousand of us here who care about what happen to our so call idle-play money, however large or however little they are, is not the point.

as a trading group, if and when we decide to bond together to push for whatever improvement in this shabby industry, we ought to be able to do so, because we care immensely about trading and everything about trading, before, during and after the settlement bell.

we as a specialized interest group, do not care enough, then..... pls spare others.... why would they care about our family members... we are mostly just a set of number to all those out there....

i won't mind meeting head to head with the sharpest traders on the trading arena, and i am very happy if and when any of them could out figure my trade, any trade, and; walk away with my money. i won't regret it one bit....

however, to have some jerks or group of jerks, the like pfg et al, defraud my euro behind my back, infuriate me to no end. sorry everyone.

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  #741 (permalink)
Wave
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I agree you are so right.

Its like are there just a bunch of robbers out there ??? comon! Its a real sore point for me sorry just venting thanks Mike for the place to do it. I lost less than 50K and I know many people lost a lot more than that but it seemed like all the money in the world to me.

If you cant trade thats totally ok but dont become a robber !

If I lose 70 percent because of my actions thats fine its my fault its a very risky environment and robbers do exist everywhere but thats why we pay the NFA so I have to say I do blame the NFA for missing many very simple opportunities to check this out.

The NFA charges a fee for every trade we make and they bear a lot of responsibility for the problem. They should be making up the shortfalls. If they did that the goodwill and confidence they would create would be fantastic. It would bring traders back in and instill confidence and stability instead of fear and uncertainty and doubt within the industry and about them as an adequate regulator.

The CME should step up with them as well they are both totally blowing a great opportunity to create new business and to stabilize and enhance the entire futures Industry they themselves depend on to grow their own business. I have not seen either of them acknowledge this at all and I think that is pretty lame for them to run away like they have done.

Step up CME and Step up NFA lets see something real from you besides jut your fees you would be doing the right thing and the right thing for business expansion.

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 abdunbar 
El Paso, Texas
 
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My claim went through tonight, electronically Asked for an acknowlegement of my submission. nothing yet.

Archie

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  #743 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
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abdunbar View Post
My claim went through tonight, electronically Asked for an acknowlegement of my submission. nothing yet.

Archie

congrats.

keep us informed, OK?

thx

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 abdunbar 
El Paso, Texas
 
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abdunbar View Post
My claim went through tonight, electronically Asked for an acknowlegement of my submission. nothing yet.

Archie

received this email today;

It is not necessary to file by mail if you have already filed through email. We have received your Proof of Claim. Your Proof of Claim will be available to view on the Proof of Claim docket on our website https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg within 48-72 hours. Thank you.


-----Original Message-----
From: documentsend@omnimgt.com [mailto:documentsend@omnimgt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:00 PM
To: pfgbest
Cc: Katie Nownes
Subject: PFGBest - POC Submission

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  #745 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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for an advanced country like the usa, to ask for both electronics and snail mail confirmation is truly out of characters.

glad that you could confirm that electronics filing alone is sufficient, until further notices of course.... l o l

for what it is worth, just last week, one of the the police complaint dept attached to the civil courts, was asking for N-I-N-E certified copies for each cause of complaints.

each certified bundle which contains close to 1,000 pages would only cost about 25,000 baht or a little over 800 usd to compile.

yes, third world does have their own life styles, many are very inexpensive, while others are outrageously self-defeating at best.... L O L

if you do receive anything more, pls do enlighten us again.... will be much obliged indeed.

thx much again.


abdunbar View Post
received this email today;

It is not necessary to file by mail if you have already filed through email. We have received your Proof of Claim. Your Proof of Claim will be available to view on the Proof of Claim docket on our website https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg within 48-72 hours. Thank you.


-----Original Message-----
From: documentsend@omnimgt.com [mailto:documentsend@omnimgt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:00 PM
To: pfgbest
Cc: Katie Nownes
Subject: PFGBest - POC Submission


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  #746 (permalink)
FCMReform
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In yesterday's hearing on Drohan Lee LLP's motion on behalf of PFG's retail forex customers Judge Carol Doyle advised the plaintiffs to file an "adversary" suit against the Trustee to force him to return the funds of PFG's forex customers.

Peregrine Forex, Metals Clients To Sue Over Funds, Atty Says - Law360

That is exactly what they are about to do. Futures Magazine has a good article regarding the new motion:

PFG forex, metals customers want justice


Quoting 
In total, there are 7,000 clients with forex and metals accounts at PFG, but Medley says the impact of the case could be much broader. “We feel like this is a precedent-setting case with respect to the rights of forex and metals account holders, and how it relates to the CFTC regulations.”

A victory for Drohan Lee would indeed be a huge precedent for all retail forex traders in the United States, and a welcome one at that. However, the precedent may not be to the liking of many in the futures industry. This quote from John Roe of the Commodity Customer Coalition is very telling:


Quoting 
Roe says the CCC has not made a decision on how to argue this but says, “The important thing once this is all said and done is that we don’t have a precedent at PFG that once someone steals something out of segregation, it doesn’t matter. That would mean segregation protection is completely meaningless,” he says. “The NFA said in its brief in the MF Global case that the intent of Congress was not to have to trace funds when the music stopped. If they aren’t there and there is a hole, you have to replace those with substitute assets. In this case, the substitute asset is FX customers’ money.”

If FX customer assets are no more than a backstop for futures customers in the event of bankruptcy then retail forex traders need to think long and hard before opening an account with a FCM whose primary business is futures. That is what is at stake in the adversary suit about to be filed.

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 olobay 
Montreal
 
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I sent this email and got this reply:

Hello,

I mailed my Proof of claim on Sunday September 30th from Montreal Quebec Canada. Has it been received and is everything in order? When will the wire disbursements begin?


Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:37 PM
To: pfgbest
Subject: Re: PFG Best - Distribution Registration Support

Thank you for submitting an inquiry with regards to obtaining confirmation information of receipt for your claim filed in the Peregrine Financial Group, Inc. (12-27488) bankruptcy matter. Confirmation of your received and processed claim can be obtained in the following methods:

1. All processed claims will be available for viewing on the “Proofs of Claim Docket” section found at https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg. Processing time will vary depending on the number of claims received.

2. All claimants with processed claims will also have mailed to them an “Acknowledge of Receipt of Proof of Claim” letter stating the “Date Claim Filed” and “Assigned Claim Number”.

If you provided an additional copy of your claim along with a self-addressed postage paid envelope, a filed stamped copy of your claim will be returned to you as well.

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  #748 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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thx for your timely post.

i felt so sorry for myself and numerous others who.... have been asked to act in some manners as welfare recpients asking for free handouts.

many here might not mind being asked to go additional miles just because some atty and their office staff were too lazy to do. after all, they were paid alot more than what they deserved, not to mention other incidental expenditures included in each of their billings to personal as well as corporate clienteles. if my trader friends here also happen to be atty as well, my apology.

i just detest being ask to fill out more forms and besides having to pay for insured postage (about 20 usd per mailing) and stuff which appeared out of the last century work habits.... LOL

these groups really ought to modernize themselves and their antiquated practices to include other graphics verification so commonly used by paypal and all...

confound them all....

just letting off steam, my apology.

wishing everyone much better wkend.

just to let you all know, i for one will refuse to comply with their additional demands or requests or insistence or whatever. and we'll see what they can wiggle with my money already considered LOST AND GONE with the <pfg> wind.... <pls do not follow my action, it is not a wise decision for most. compliance is the name of the game in most societies, i am afraid. K?>


olobay View Post
I sent this email and got this reply:

Hello,

I mailed my Proof of claim on Sunday September 30th from Montreal Quebec Canada. Has it been received and is everything in order? When will the wire disbursements begin?


Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:37 PM
To: pfgbest
Subject: Re: PFG Best - Distribution Registration Support

Thank you for submitting an inquiry with regards to obtaining confirmation information of receipt for your claim filed in the Peregrine Financial Group, Inc. (12-27488) bankruptcy matter. Confirmation of your received and processed claim can be obtained in the following methods:

1. All processed claims will be available for viewing on the “Proofs of Claim Docket” section found at https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg. Processing time will vary depending on the number of claims received.

2. All claimants with processed claims will also have mailed to them an “Acknowledge of Receipt of Proof of Claim” letter stating the “Date Claim Filed” and “Assigned Claim Number”.

If you provided an additional copy of your claim along with a self-addressed postage paid envelope, a filed stamped copy of your claim will be returned to you as well.


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  #749 (permalink)
 binary 
Des Moines
 
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what does VII.D mean? (on the commodity futures customer claim form)

"Is your claim based on securities futures products?"

what is a securities account?

thanks

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  #750 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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binary View Post
what does VII.D mean? (on the commodity futures customer claim form)

"Is your claim based on securities futures products?"

what is a securities account?

thanks

I think this would be for futures on stocks (One Chicago exchange, OneChicago The Single Stock Futures Exchange). although I cannot say for sure. I checked no on my claim, since I trade only typical CME/ICE futures.

You can always contact the trustee for a definite answer.

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 olobay 
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Here's a guide on how to fill out the claim form.

#PFGBest Claims Form Guide

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 TradeWind 
tw
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brevco View Post
No, this makes the 4th....over about 25 - 30 years.

The books are scrutinized and certified yearly by the authorities.
tw

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 Cloudy 
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"Wasendorf estate: Former lifestyles of the rich and infamous"

59 photos of the extravagance of the estate and other "assets"

personal pool structure: " marveled at the Wasendorf estate’s enormous pool house. “This is a nice piece of property. The crazy part is that the pool is probably worth more than the entire house.”

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121021/BUSINESS/310210015/1002/NEWS01/?odyssey=nav|head

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/VideoNetwork/1910481520001/Sneak-peek-Wasendorf-estate


"Trading desk /Photoshop forgery & shredding desk" 2nd floor office?

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 aligator 
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So, supposedly 123M was transferred to Vision for distribution to Futures Accounts claims last week. Did anyone get anything in the mail from Vision?

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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aligator View Post
So, supposedly 213M was transferred to Vision for distribution to Futures Accounts claims last week. Did anyone get anything in the mail from Vision?


I have not, yet. I've gotten numerous e-mails from my IB saying the money is at Vision, though.

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 Big Mike 
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I have not, yet. I've gotten numerous e-mails from my IB saying the money is at Vision, though.

Is Vision handing out all the accounts to its IB's, or is it keeping some? I haven't found any press on this. @mattz might know (an IB of VFM).

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
Is Vision handing out all the accounts to its IB's, or is it keeping some? I haven't found any press on this. @mattz might know (an IB of VFM).

Mike

I would assume that due to the large # of account transfers some IBs help in the transition of accounts.

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 binary 
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aligator View Post
So, supposedly 213M was transferred to Vision for distribution to Futures Accounts claims last week. Did anyone get anything in the mail from Vision?

i got a letter by post from Vision Financial Markets, Connecticut
the letter shows as of 10/22/2012 a credit of USD x.x (30% of my pfgbest account balance).
and a new account number Vxxxxx (xxxxx is my old pfgbest account number).

i shall call Vision on monday and get more details.

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 olobay 
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binary View Post
i got a letter by post from Vision Financial Markets, Connecticut
the letter shows as of 10/22/2012 a credit of USD x.x (30% of my pfgbest account balance).
and a new account number Vxxxxx (xxxxx is my old pfgbest account number).

i shall call Vision on monday and get more details.

No need to call them. Here's what you need to do if you do not want to keep an account at Vision.

Vision Financial Markets - Futures, Securities & Options | Brokerage, Clearing & Technology

https://www.vfmarkets.com/pfgtransfer/

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 aligator 
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Big Mike View Post
Is Vision handing out all the accounts to its IB's, or is it keeping some? I haven't found any press on this. @mattz might know (an IB of VFM).

Mike

They do handle handing out the funds. One has the option to stay with them, transfer to another account, or get the cash back.

https://documents.visionfinancialmarkets.com/support/initial_information_on_distribution.pdf

Cheers.

BTW, yesterday I received a mail letter from them with a new statement, only 30% of my account with PFG. Now I have to fill out a form for one of the three options and attach a copy of the this last statement for Vision to take action.

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 aligator 
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I would assume that most likely the 30% distribution is all we will see.
In that case, everyone has a loss of 70 percent of their account. Here is another question regarding PFG.

Q; What are the possible tax treatment for this loss?

It is certainly not a trading loss or a capital gain or loss (1250) deduction. Is it a theft, robbery, disaster, bad loan loss or what?

I know the answer would be to talk to your accountant or lawyer. But would be nice if someone with knowledge would comment here.

Thanks.

p.s. I will ask Robert Green, CPA (GreenTradersTax), during his appearances in the Vegas Traders Expo on 11/14-17/2012.

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 abdunbar 
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I received my statement from Vision and filled out and emailed required forms to them to receive 30% of my PFG account.

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 abdunbar 
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aligator View Post
I would assume that most likely the 30% distribution is all we will see.
In that case, everyone has a loss of 70 percent of their account. Here is another question regarding PFG.

Q; What are the possible tax treatment for this loss?

It is certainly not a trading loss or a capital gain or loss (1250) deduction. Is it a theft, robbery, disaster, bad loan loss or what?

I know the answer would be to talk to your accountant or lawyer. But would be nice if someone with knowledge would comment here.

Thanks.

p.s. I will ask Robert Green, CPA (GreenTradersTax), during his appearances in the Vegas Traders Expo on 11/14-17/2012.

found this link, regarding deductibility and theft loss;

Securities Fraud and the Theft-Loss Deduction

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 Skidboot 
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Can you believe this? The site is still up... and i can even fill out the new account form... wow..nice going authorities...

PFGBEST | About

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 nakachalet 
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aligator View Post
So, supposedly 123M was transferred to Vision for distribution to Futures Accounts claims last week. Did anyone get anything in the mail from Vision?

here is the email notice from vision.

there are three inclusion correspondences.

hope, it could help traders still searching for refunds.






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  #766 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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binary View Post
i got a letter by post from Vision Financial Markets, Connecticut
the letter shows as of 10/22/2012 a credit of USD x.x (30% of my pfgbest account balance).
and a new account number Vxxxxx (xxxxx is my old pfgbest account number).

i shall call Vision on monday and get more details.

and what did you find out from them, pls?

thx

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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I received a stmt from Vision a few days ago. I filled out Form 2 for Vision (for them to sent me my money). I e-mail Vision all required docs on Thursday.

Today I got reply from Vision saying they were processing my info.

I expect a check in the next few weeks.

Kevin

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 nakachalet 
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kevinkdog View Post
I received a stmt from Vision a few days ago. I filled out Form 2 for Vision (for them to sent me my money). I e-mail Vision all required docs on Thursday.

Today I got reply from Vision saying they were processing my info.

I expect a check in the next few weeks.

Kevin

hi kevin

and who are you planning to go with, to hold your funds, pls?

it is ok, if you do not wish to share, alright?

thx

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nakachalet View Post
hi kevin

and who are you planning to go with, to hold your funds, pls?

it is ok, if you do not wish to share, alright?

thx


The money will go to one of the Forex brokers I have, or 1 of the futures firms I use. I have 2 of each right now. I'd really rather not mention them by name in this forum. You can PM me though.

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 nakachalet 
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attached is the responding email from those holding my fun funds.

it just have to wait till monday before i could respond.

my fun and free unencumbered time has practically expired for today.

just wondering, where actually dwells the error, really?

have a safe and wonderful wkend everyone.
---------------

---------------

===========



nakachalet View Post
here is the email notice from vision.

there are three inclusion correspondences.

hope, it could help traders still searching for refunds.







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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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nakachalet View Post
attached is the responding email from those holding my fun funds.

it just have to wait till monday before i could respond.

Nakachalet -

I had to submit my Proof Of Claim 3 or 4 times before they finally got it. First, they said they could not read a zip file. Had to be PDF. Then, I think it was too big. A couple of times, I submitted via website, and they said they received it, but later told me they did not. Evetually, I re-re-re-submitted via the website and e-mailed it to them. Then, they FINALLY got it.

After submitting, I suggest you check the "Proof of Claim Docket" and make sure your info is recorded there. That takes a few days.


I find it highly ironic that I have to submit all kinds of claims, paperwork, statements, W-9 forms, photo IDs, etc for the little bit of remaining money that is mine --- when Russ Sr. was able to forge one bank stmt over and over to steal about $200 million.

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 binary 
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nakachalet View Post
and what did you find out from them, pls?

thx

i checked their website before calling. it had answers to what i was going to ask them. so i skipped calling.
i just filled out all the forms to withdraw the 30% from them as a check.(wire was $25).
there is an option to email all forms signed. i will be doing that in a bit.

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 nakachalet 
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binary View Post
i checked their website before calling. it had answers to what i was going to ask them. so i skipped calling.
i just filled out all the forms to withdraw the 30% from them as a check.(wire was $25).
there is an option to email all forms signed. i will be doing that in a bit.

thx @binary

i just filed my 4th attempt to get my own money from them.

wondering what it would be like, if you were asking something or anything from them that belongs to them and not you....?

are they just too self-indulging and too far removed from those afflicting and afflicted, or;

that i am just too impatient for my own good?.....

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 flyg 
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I just saw the transfer show up in my other FCM account this morning...

My IB has been amazing in pursuit of filing and getting this done the right away....

Best of luck to all in getting your money back...

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 nakachalet 
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flyg View Post
I just saw the transfer show up in my other FCM account this morning...

My IB has been amazing in pursuit of filing and getting this done the right away....

Best of luck to all in getting your money back...

congrats

and who is your other fcm and ib, pls?

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 flyg 
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azjeff
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I use to have an account with PFG a few years ago. I truly hope everyone receives all of their money that they had with PFG.

Regards,
Jeff

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 nakachalet 
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here is the latest on pfg pilots and destinations and what not....

it is taken from an incoming email just a few minutes ago, it might be old news for many already.

anyway, here it is for those who wish to know further....

Here’s something you don’t hear around our offices too frequently (or possibly ever before)… Good Job NFA ! While the NFA’s handling of the PFG fiasco belongs in textbooks on how not to do public relations in times of crisis, it looks like someone over there finally woke up and is trying to do the right thing – returning PFG customer money that was used to pay PFG’s regulatory fines.

Attain , have you heard anything through the grave vine that additional assets have been located. I read somewhere that the FBI was questioning Russels personal pilot about his destinations etc. I theorize that he started spending t he investors money and next decided that in light of his Brilliance, he could trade and make up for his thefts. I bet he is actually closer to any average trader who got lucky in the financial collapse years ago. And deep greed almost always leads to losses, and that in turn produced the next round of losses and that is where the bulk of the funds are located.....in other traders accounts. But I still have some hope that large assets will be located or a white knight will come forward.

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 Cloudy 
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Wasendorf's Son Cancels Lawsuit Against U.S. Bank | KCRG-TV9 | Cedar Rapids, Iowa News, Sports, and Weather | Local News

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 olobay 
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Not a whole lot of money from these items. Hopefully we will see another 10%-20% but that is wishful tihnking.

Court officials list Wasendorf possessions to be auctioned on Dec. 5 : Business Monthly

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 olobay 
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Victim Impact Statements.

United States Attorneys Office - Northern District of Iowa

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 olobay 
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Watch the auction Live and even bid on items.

Great American Group presents: Accessories, On Behalf of the Trustees For The Estate of Russell Wasendorf Sr. auction / liquidation

Great American Group

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 nakachalet 
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as trustee still emailed me as of last week, that my application to them for my refund was incomplete.

and i must resubmit in order to receive due considerations.

and as stubborn as i have always been since my youth,

i kept sending them everything that was asked for.

yet, there were email stating that the application was partial and incomplete and

that i must resubmit again.

traders, who is right anyway?

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 olobay 
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nakachalet View Post
as trustee still emailed me as of last week, that my application to them for my refund was incomplete.

and i must resubmit in order to receive due considerations.

and as stubborn as i have always been since my youth,

i kept sending them everything that was asked for.

yet, there were email stating that the application was partial and incomplete and

that i must resubmit again.

traders, who is right anyway?

I have received my 30%.

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 olobay 
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The vultures are stil circling. Received a letter from PrimeShares asking to buy what's owed to me from PFG for 35% minus the 30% bulk transfer or any other percentage bulk transfer I have received. If they want my stake for 5%, that means we should expect to get another 10%-20% disbursement sometime in the future. Anyhow, that's just speculation. Here's some news about the auction. Around one million was raised.

Wasendorf auction reaps $1 million

Sold: PFG auction capped time-consuming process : Business Monthly

NEW DETAILS: Estimated 1,000 bidders compete for Wasendorf property

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 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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olobay View Post
I have received my 30%.

yes, i also received my purportedly 30%+ disbursement.

but alas.... the funds is NOT in my u.s. bank acct as of to date, even though the statement from vision dated october 1, 2012, stated that it already has possession of my trading funds from the trustee.

it is now december 18, 2012.... vision is still wanting to hang on to the funds and is not willing to wire transfer the funds.

however, per someone who is in the know suggested, i sent my complaint and correspondence email to the authority in the bankruptcy proceedings two days ago.

and we'll see just how long vision can hang on to this trading funds that does not and never belongs to it in the very first place.

if you wish to read the detail correspondence, here they are, presented in sequences.
------------------



Dr. N

Thanks for your below comment on our blog. If you are continuing to have problems accessing your money, I recommend you reach out to Mi.... (cc’d herein) and share with him the delay tactics being used by Vision and ask for his help in resolving it.


dr n says:
December 14, 2012 at 4:18 pm •

here is another reason, why some retail customers are not getting their trading funds being returned to them.

attached is one of the several email going back and forth between a former pfg customer and vision financial brokerage.

read for yourself and see, if vision is the kind of brokerage for you, ok?

AND THE ATTACHMENT IS PROBABLY THE 8TH EMAIL ASKING FOR A PROMPT WIRE TRANSFER WHICH FAILS ON DELAY TACTICS. IT IS REALLY DISTURBING HOW THIS TYPE OF COMPANY COULD BE ALLOWED TO EXIST.

should a trader, any trader at all, put any amount of confidence and/or cash with such brokerage….?

——————-

hi r….

per your last correspondence which stated that i did not sign the W forms.

perhaps, you ought to know that on electronic form, it is not possible to affix a signature, except by typing and filling in one’s name–instead of signing.

furthermore, unless the form itself allows spaces for typing in or filling in one’s name, there is no way to arbitrarily insert the name.

if you would observe, i did type in my name after the date appearing on the lower right hand corner which is the only space
that i could insert my name.

as this is my last working day for this week, i surely hope that you could help to expedite the wiring of my funds to my bank as previously provided.


[COLOR="rgb(75, 0, 130)"]most financial institutions require that the wire transfer request be completed before 11 a.m., and this is what i am trying to do now for several days.

perhaps you also ought to be aware that there have been a dozen of email going back and forth between your vision company and myself.

thousands of internet and active traders would see our correspondence, some of which really is just dragging your feet sort of attitudinal problems and
in my opinion is really just delaying tactics.

i sincerely hope you or someone else who is able to help me out, do so today by returning my trading funds by wire transfer before 11 a.m. today.

AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS NEEDED, PLSE DO LET ME KNOW RIGHT AWAY, SO THE WIRE COULD GO OUT FROM YOUR ACCOUNTING DEPT BEFORE 11 A.M. TODAY, THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2012.

thx much for all your assistance.

———————-

as of to date, saturday, december 15, there is not even a customary electronic reply that my email has been received. formerly, there was also a routine email stating that my email has been received and someone would get in touch with me. well…. we’ll see…. how much longer vision can drag this on and out …. L O L[/COLOR]

----------------
today, wednesday, december 18, 2012.... the incoming wiring dept said that there was no incoming wire from vision as of 4 p.m.

we'll see if someone with the trustee will be able to pry the funds loose from vision....

just wondering out loud.... how well will vision perform as a broker.... and in keeping our trading funds safe....?

worst of all, i placed a personal call, transpacific international call, to vision last thursday or so....

i was told to leave a message and someone would get back to me....

it is now about a week since.... no one from vision bothers even to acknowledge and responded....

trading friends, just be extra cautious, K?

warm regards and profitable trading everyone

nakachalet@gmail.com

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 Rad4633 
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@nakachalet

are you with Vision now? You have a funded account and they wont send wire to you? Is this correct?

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  #788 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Vision is working through thousands of accounts from PFG.
Naturally, some stay while some want to move but they are doing their best to help.
Further, due to regulatory requirements forms have to be submitted in a certain way and fully completed.

We @ Optimus Trading Group have help have accommodate customers in transition to our platforms and/or respected people's wishes to receive their funds.

I will assist you guys if you drop me an email, BUT this is a courtesy to futures.io (formerly BMT) members and I will do so as time permits because Optimus customer's needs come first, always. Alternatively, you can work with Vision because they are doing their best to help.

Matt

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  #789 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninja
Trading: gc, cl, tf, 6e
 
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Rad4633 View Post
@nakachalet

are you with Vision now? You have a funded account and they wont send wire to you? Is this correct?

yes, you are correct. it is a cash on the barrel funded acct, per attachment.

any suggestion, pls?
---------------



Dr. Naka,

Thanks for your below comment on our blog. If you are continuing to have problems accessing your money, I recommend you reach out to Mi.... (cc’d herein) and share with him the delay tactics being used by Vision and ask for his help in resolving it.


dr naka says:
December 14, 2012 at 4:18 pm • Edit
here is another reason, why some retail customers are not getting their trading funds being returned to them.

attached is one of the several email going back and forth between a former pfg customer and vision financial brokerage.

read for yourself and see, if vision is the kind of brokerage for you, ok?

AND THE ATTACHMENT IS PROBABLY THE 8TH EMAIL ASKING FOR A PROMPT WIRE TRANSFER WHICH FAILS ON DELAY TACTICS. IT IS REALLY DISTURBING HOW THIS TYPE OF COMPANY COULD BE ALLOWED TO EXIST.

should a trader, any trader at all, put any amount of confidence and/or cash with such brokerage….?
——————-

hi r…. (vision)

per your last correspondence which stated that i did not sign the W forms.

perhaps, you ought to know that on electronic form, it is not possible to affix a signature, except by typing and filling in one’s name–instead of signing.

furthermore, unless the form itself allows spaces for typing in or filling in one’s name, there is no way to arbitrarily insert the name.

if you would observe, i did type in my name after the date appearing on the lower right hand corner which is the only space
that i could insert my name.

as this is my last working day for this week, i surely hope that you could help to expedite the wiring of my funds to my bank as previously provided.

most financial institutions require that the wire transfer request be completed before 11 a.m., and this is what i am trying to do now for several days.

perhaps you also ought to be aware that there have been a dozen of email going back and forth between your vision company and myself.

thousands of internet and active traders would see our correspondence, some of which really is just dragging your feet sort of attitudinal problems and
in my opinion is really just delaying tactics.

i sincerely hope you or someone else who is able to help me out, do so today by returning my trading funds by wire transfer before 11 a.m. today.

AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS NEEDED, PLSE DO LET ME KNOW RIGHT AWAY, SO THE WIRE COULD GO OUT FROM YOUR ACCOUNTING DEPT BEFORE 11 A.M. TODAY, THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2012.

thx much for all your assistance.
———————-

as of to date, saturday, december 15, there is not even a customary electronic reply that my email has been received. formerly, there was also a routine email stating that my email has been received and someone would get in touch with me. well…. we’ll see…. how much longer vision can drag this on and out …. L O L

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  #790 (permalink)
 brevco 
Denham Springs, LA
 
Experience: Advanced
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I submitted the forms per Vision's instructions and never received confirmation or
any type of reply. I called them several times and each time I received voice mail
but could not leave a message because "the mail box was full." After attempting
to reach them for 3 days I finally spoke to an operator/receptionist who transferred me to someone
by the name of Matthew. I received a check in the mail within about 5 days.

I never received confirmation that PFG received my claim electronically so I called and
they (the trustee) answered the phone. I mailed the required forms via registered
mail and have the signed receipt.

That's about the best I can hope for as proof that they (PFG/trustee) received my claim.

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  #791 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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brevco View Post
I submitted the forms per Vision's instructions and never received confirmation or
any type of reply. I called them several times and each time I received voice mail
but could not leave a message because "the mail box was full." After attempting
to reach them for 3 days I finally spoke to an operator/receptionist who transferred me to someone
by the name of Matthew. I received a check in the mail within about 5 days.

I never received confirmation that PFG received my claim electronically so I called and
they (the trustee) answered the phone. I mailed the required forms via registered
mail and have the signed receipt.

That's about the best I can hope for as proof that they (PFG/trustee) received my claim.

hi brevco

glad you got yours already but which number did you call, pls?

email if you like.

thx much.

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  #792 (permalink)
 comintel 
Raleigh NC USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CTS T4 and TradeStation
Trading: Oil
 
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To see if your claim has been received by the PFG Bankruptcy trustee, you can go to

https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/pfg

Select "Proof of Claim Docket" on the left.

Then search on your name.

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  #793 (permalink)
 brevco 
Denham Springs, LA
 
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nakachalet View Post
hi brevco

glad you got yours already but which number did you call, pls?

email if you like.

thx much.

I called the numbers listed on their website:

Toll Free: 1.877.836.3949
Direct: 203.388.2714

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  #794 (permalink)
 comintel 
Raleigh NC USA
 
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I received the following unsolicited offer (at bottom of this post) for my PFG claim. I changed the name of the sender to XXX.

I am not interested in the offer as such, and will not take it (I am in in no rush), but am interested in the expectations for recovery implied in it.

The offers are about 38% for U.S. futures accounts and about 75% for accounts set up to trade foreign futures exchanges.

This is because Wasendorf took the funds from segregated funds set up for trading U.S. futures. There was no deficit in the account set up to trade foreign futures. The Trustee has indicated that he will treat these as separate pools if the judge so approves.

Would it be fairer to treat the two equally?

There seems to be no way to have a dialogue in this area. CCC has no public forum. Neither does the trustee. The people suing on a class action basis do not respond to emails either.

Of course, we can hope that the Trustee finds other funds so that both classes of customers get paid back fully, but this looks a lot less likely for PFG than is turning out to be the case with MF Global.

===============================

Dear Sir or Madam,

XXX is an active investor in the customer claims of the Peregrine Financial Group (“PFG”) bankruptcy case. We understand that you or your client may have a Commodity Futures Account (“4D”) or Foreign Futures Account (“30.7”) claim against the PFG estate. Depending on the type of claim, you should have received a partial payment from Vision Financial Markets LLC (“Vision”) through a bulk transfer that took place towards the end of October, 2012.

For your consideration, we are currently bidding the following rates for certain claims against PFG:



Type of Claim Claim Size Pricing

Commodity Futures Account - 4D $100K-$500K 37% (less any distributions already received)

Commodity Futures Account - 4D $500K - $1M 37.5% (less any distributions already received)

Commodity Futures Account - 4D $1M+ 38% (less any distributions already received)


Foreign Futures Account - 30.7 $100K-$500K 74% (less any distributions already received)

Foreign Futures Account - 30.7 $500K - $1M 75% (less any distributions already received)

Foreign Futures Account - 30.7 $1M+ 76% (less any distributions already received)



If you have a different type of claim than the 4D or 30.7, we’re not an active buyer right now, but you can be in touch with me and we can work to develop a bid for you.

Please note, pricing is subject to change higher or lower according to active market conditions and claims are bought on a first offered, first purchased basis. Any potential claim purchase is subject to the review of standard claim support documentation, and XX reserves the right to not purchase any claim presented for sale, for any reason.

If you are not familiar with XXX, I encourage you to visit our website at XXX.com to learn more about us and read some of the testimonials from others who have sold their claims through XXX.


Best Regards for Happy and Healthy New Year.

XXX

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  #795 (permalink)
Wave
KAUAI HAWAII USA
 
 
Posts: 19 since Sep 2012
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Hello Thanks for the post to the thread yes it has not been a very open process. it does appear based on these bids that
maybe 40 % or so may be possible for domestic commodity account holders. I am just guessing. There was an auction for
some of the buildings and assets but I didnt see the final sales numbers does anyone have more info about that ?

Good to have a forum like this otherwise it would be even muddier than it already is. Happy New Year everyone we will
make all of this back plus interest.

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  #796 (permalink)
 comintel 
Raleigh NC USA
 
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In the MF Global case, the amount offered by claim buyers increased steadily over time, and is now up to maybe 95%.

In the case of PFG, it is not likely to get that high.

I believe that there is enough money in the foreign trading accounts to pay 100% of those foreign trading account claims. Of course, there are the trustee's expenses to come off the top.

The third party buyers are offering about 80% on those foreign account claims and about 40% on domestic trading account claims.

So reversing the calculation, maybe the U.S. account holders, who are currently being offered close to 40%, may eventually get 60%+. I certainly hope for a lot more than that, but that may depend on finding money somewhere in PFG's remaining assets or suing some people.

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  #797 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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Peregrine's Wasendorf Sentencing Set for Jan. 31

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324581504578235853340454648

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  #798 (permalink)
wrc1169
Mississippi
 
 
Posts: 3 since Feb 2011
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I sent my claim to Vision to have the 30% that was transferred them to be sent to me via check. I got an email on 12/21/12 with the forms I had filled out scanned into a PDF file so I have confirmation that they received the request. As of today I still have not received my funds and have gotten no response to a couple of emails asking about it. Anyone else who requested a check still waiting??? Growing a little impatient here!!

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  #799 (permalink)
 Tanju23 
Riverview Fl
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Same here man...they are definitely dragging their feet on this one...

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  #800 (permalink)
 comintel 
Raleigh NC USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CTS T4 and TradeStation
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 17 since May 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 7 received

Just for comparison, I sent my forms by email to Vision on 10/30 and got the check a few days later.

So I would definitely suggest calling Vision.

I hope that everyone who had an account also filed the separate forms on Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home by the deadline. If you did not it is urgent that you file them now and call the Trustee immediately as maybe they can extend the deadline (which has now passed). It turns out that they failed to notify some people so they are extending it for some people. So if you did not file, do it immediately and call them and "beg" for an extension. Extensions are often given in cases like this in my opinion although I cannot guarantee it.

Note there are two separate sets of forms to file:

(1) The ones on the Vision site to get the initial distribution from the broker.

(2) The ones on pfgchapter7.com to make your claim formally to the trustee.

You must fill in both separately.

The second set are the more important ones because they are the formal claim. They may even claw back distributions from Vision unless you file the pfgchapter7 claim as well. Plus you would not be eligible for future distributions unless you file it.

I will be shocked if they do not give extensions to people who were confused by the procedures. But the first step is to file now, even if late and then you will have support later from places like here.

If everyone has already filed with the Trustee, then please ignore all of this. I cannot tell exactly from the other postings.

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