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AMP Futures / AMP Global Review

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  #301 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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What do you think guys is it time to close the AMP account (if you have one) or what a hell is going in there ?

Please see the attached PDF document dated July, 2nd 2015 about NFA Complaining them. There are several problems in the firm currently.

More information about this case can be found from NFA site as follows,
https://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Case.aspx?entityid=0412490&case=15BCC00024&contrib=NFA

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AMP Futures / AMP Global Review-nfa_complaing_amp.pdf  
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  #302 (permalink)
 Dasani 
United States of America
 
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COMPLAINT:



On July 2, 2015, NFA issued a Complaint charging Amp and Culp with failure to diligently supervise Amp's operations to ensure they complied with regulatory requirements.



ANSWER:



On August 19, 2015, Amp and Culp filed an Answer to the Complaint in which they denied the material allegations contained therein.



DECISION:



On September 17, 2015, pursuant to a settlement offer received from Amp and Culp, Amp was ordered to pay a $25,000 fine.

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  #303 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Scalpguy View Post
What do you think guys is it time to close the AMP account (if you have one) or what a hell is going in there ?

Please see the attached PDF document dated July, 2nd 2015 about NFA Complaining them. There are several problems in the firm currently.

I posted that info months ago on July 7th. I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near AMP personally.



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  #304 (permalink)
 Dasani 
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I am surprised that AMP was only fined $25,000 for what they were doing.

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  #305 (permalink)
 cogito 
Washington DC
 
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Scalpguy View Post
What do you think guys is it time to close the AMP account (if you have one) or what a hell is going in there ?

Please see the attached PDF document dated July, 2nd 2015 about NFA Complaining them. There are several problems in the firm currently.

More information about this case can be found from NFA site as follows,
https://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Case.aspx?entityid=0412490&case=15BCC00024&contrib=NFA

Let me put this in context.

First a disclaimer. Couple of months ago I was looking for a discount futures broker. So, read this entire thread and decided to open an account with AMP. I did not have any issues with AMP as of date.

You are looking at the complaint. Complaints have allegations which may or may not be true. Anyone can file a complaint. Allegations in the complaint are not deemed true unless a judge/jury or appropriate authority rules on them.

AMP alleged several wrong doings on the part of BMT in its complaint, but the judge dismissed complaint. So, those allegations in the complaint are just allegations, nothing more. In the same way, the allegations in NFA's complaint against AMP are just allegations because NFA agreed to settle for minuscule charge. We should not read too much into that complaint when NFA itself dropped most of the charges.

I saw this NFA complaint, AMP response and the settlement before opening an account with them. Personally, I think if NFA's charges had any solid proof, NFA would not have settled so easily. That just my opinion.

Also, I looked at several other futures brokers record with NFA. To my surprise most of them had violations and paid much higher penalty including some big names.

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  #306 (permalink)
 Delawer 
LEON / SPAIN
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Well I have a bit experience with them. I probably dont undestand a bit this bussiness (well I have heard is only about encourage people to trade) but I had some expectations about futures with them and I can tell as a member of the betatester group of the Bookmap Veloxpro platform.

-For me, was a bit weird the problems I had for to setup platform (TT) with them. I did about 5 or 6 request to help to setup it.
-They also didnt gave me the IP for guardian the first time. (how im gonna trade if I have nothing to conect TT with?)
-After wining 90% the trades and double my account in 2 weeks, I did a withdrawal request. After that I lost 90% of my trades wichs finally become in a big lost. That makes me to think that win or loose doesnt depends on you. (probably would have any relationship with the "pay for order flow").
- After that loss, I become a debt with CME but I could trade again after a refund. (wich I think that is a good point for AMP, not only bad things)
- In this new stage, some issues become to the account like some orders that I didnt deployed appeared in my platform (wich is weird, probably someone was buying them but they appeared to me, and added to my losses). I request to AMP the CME log, to review them, but it never were sended to me.
- Finally and in conclusion I can say that if a retail dont undestand what is behind this bussines, maybe due to the pay for orderflow; or something I never could understand (i.eg only one guy beated citadel). What make my think that is almost impossible to make money with a 500$-700$ account.

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  #307 (permalink)
 cogito 
Washington DC
 
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Delawer View Post
Well I have a bit experience with them. I probably dont undestand a bit this bussiness (well I have heard is only about encourage people to trade) but I had some expectations about futures with them and I can tell as a member of the betatester group of the Bookmap Veloxpro platform.

-For me, was a bit weird the problems I had for to setup platform (TT) with them. I did about 5 or 6 request to help to setup it.
-They also didnt gave me the IP for guardian the first time. (how im gonna trade if I have nothing to conect TT with?)
-After wining 90% the trades and double my account in 2 weeks, I did a withdrawal request. After that I lost 90% of my trades wichs finally become in a big lost. That makes me to think that win or loose doesnt depends on you. (probably would have any relationship with the "pay for order flow").
- After that loss, I become a debt with CME but I could trade again after a refund. (wich I think that is a good point for AMP, not only bad things)
- In this new stage, some issues become to the account like some orders that I didnt deployed appeared in my platform (wich is weird, probably someone was buying them but they appeared to me, and added to my losses). I request to AMP the CME log, to review them, but it never were sended to me.
- Finally and in conclusion I can say that if a retail dont undestand what is behind this bussines, maybe due to the pay for orderflow; or something I never could understand (i.eg only one guy beated citadel). What make my think that is almost impossible to make money with a 500$-700$ account.

You seem to be accusing AMP and/or CME of influencing whether your trades win or loose. On top of that you are testing some beta product and accusing AMP of passing on someone else's losses to your account. Most probably the anomalies you saw are from the beta platform.

Sorry pal, you are absolutely not making any sense. You should not be trading at all and not certainly with $500 account.

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  #308 (permalink)
 Delawer 
LEON / SPAIN
 
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cogito View Post
You seem to be accusing AMP and/or CME of influencing whether your trades win or loose. On top of that you are testing some beta product and accusing AMP of passing on someone else's losses to your account. Most probably the anomalies you saw are from the beta platform.

Sorry pal, you are absolutely not making any sense. You should not be trading at all and not certainly with $500 account.

Im not trying to annoying or blame anything. Is only a review, I also comment good points, and even in other forums of executions. I wasnt really hard (for instance sometimes after I switched off and relog, some orders I never deployed were there and dont think is a platform problem). All the review is TRUE. Obviously there are some thoughs, couse this is a broker review thread, and appart from te fatcs, there are some thoughs that are other trades wich have to judge by themselves.
Dont take it to the personal side.

Im now trying IQFeed will post futher review.

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  #309 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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cogito View Post
Let me put this in context.

First a disclaimer. Couple of months ago I was looking for a discount futures broker. So, read this entire thread and decided to open an account with AMP. I did not have any issues with AMP as of date.

You are looking at the complaint. Complaints have allegations which may or may not be true. Anyone can file a complaint. Allegations in the complaint are not deemed true unless a judge/jury or appropriate authority rules on them...

Thanks for the context

Now I understand how those complaints basically are working.

Ive been their customer some years now and I have not had any major technical issues with them (first I was on CQG and now on Rithmic) but been little a bit worrying all the time because they are so small. Company capital seems to be only few millions so anything unexpected may take them out of business and quick... or is there any other funds backing up their business ?!? Would like to see their balance sheet.

Here in Finland every company (ltd or corp no matter is it public or not) must reveal their income statement and balance sheets so everybody can get a little a bit better picture how the company is performing and doing their busines. How is it in the US can I view their balance sheets (even they are not a public company) ? Any requlations from NFA or others in this ?

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  #310 (permalink)
 cogito 
Washington DC
 
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Scalpguy View Post
Thanks for the context

Now I understand how those complaints basically are working.

Ive been their customer some years now and I have not had any major technical issues with them (first I was on CQG and now on Rithmic)

May I ask what made you switch from CQG to Rithmic?
What advantages with Rithmic?



Scalpguy View Post

Company capital seems to be only few millions so anything unexpected may take them out of business and quick... or is there any other funds backing up their business ?!? Would like to see their balance sheet.

Not sure how our monies are protected with futures traders. @mattz can you shed some light on this subject?

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  #311 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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cogito View Post
May I ask what made you switch from CQG to Rithmic?
What advantages with Rithmic?

Im also developing/doing some semi-HFT and Rithmic can offer an algorithmic trading library for C++ in Windows and Linux (C# version available too) where you can reach as low as below 1ms tick-to-trade executions (pls do not confuse this measure to a networks speed it is a real execution speed including overhead from platform, your application/server and execution times in exchanges additionally to your network speed) on their platform (w/ co-located server). My system is not optimized for this speed. For me it is enough to get below 10ms TTT times BUT on the robust way. I do not know any other platform which can offer this speed by only $100/mo (no matter you do 1k or 50k sides / month). They also have a gateway here in Europe which makes it a good manual trading choice too !

CQG is not bad either but in my case the Rithmic is better in quality / money.

btw.
What comes to a manual trading Rithmic can offer a front end too but to be honest it is a way behind from it's competitors. I recommend and use Sierra Charts. IMO SC is definitely the best front end for trading including everything you will ever need in your trading career. And again this app is also on the top of the quality / money.

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  #312 (permalink)
 steve2222 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
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Scalpguy View Post
Thanks for the context

Now I understand how those complaints basically are working.

Ive been their customer some years now and I have not had any major technical issues with them (first I was on CQG and now on Rithmic) but been little a bit worrying all the time because they are so small. Company capital seems to be only few millions so anything unexpected may take them out of business and quick... or is there any other funds backing up their business ?!? Would like to see their balance sheet.

Here in Finland every company (ltd or corp no matter is it public or not) must reveal their income statement and balance sheets so everybody can get a little a bit better picture how the company is performing and doing their busines. How is it in the US can I view their balance sheets (even they are not a public company) ? Any requlations from NFA or others in this ?

@Scalpguy

If I understand correctly you would like to see their Balance Sheet?

No problem they post their monthly balance sheet and Annual Financial Report right here:

CFTC Rule 1.55 Reporting - AMP

There is no separate Income Statement, but I suspect that is because the business is effectively a sole trader and the owner is reporting the net profit in his personal tax return ie the profit is probably 100% taken out of the business.

But it is easy to check - just look at the change in the Ownership Equity in the B/S from one month to the next (as you can view the historical monthly reports).

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  #313 (permalink)
 steve2222 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: Whatever moves in my timezone
 
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cogito View Post
Let me put this in context.

First a disclaimer. Couple of months ago I was looking for a discount futures broker. So, read this entire thread and decided to open an account with AMP. I did not have any issues with AMP as of date.

You are looking at the complaint. Complaints have allegations which may or may not be true. Anyone can file a complaint. Allegations in the complaint are not deemed true unless a judge/jury or appropriate authority rules on them.

AMP alleged several wrong doings on the part of BMT in its complaint, but the judge dismissed complaint. So, those allegations in the complaint are just allegations, nothing more. In the same way, the allegations in NFA's complaint against AMP are just allegations because NFA agreed to settle for minuscule charge. We should not read too much into that complaint when NFA itself dropped most of the charges.

I saw this NFA complaint, AMP response and the settlement before opening an account with them. Personally, I think if NFA's charges had any solid proof, NFA would not have settled so easily. That just my opinion.

Also, I looked at several other futures brokers record with NFA. To my surprise most of them had violations and paid much higher penalty including some big names.

@cogito
Well said.

@Scalpguy

As cogito said, other well known futures brokers (certainly the ones retail traders like us would deal with) have had violations as well. Some have had several violations. Most have resulted in penalties far in excess of AMP's.

If I am not mistaken, this was AMP's FIRST violation ever and I am sure they have taken it hard.

As we all know from running any sort of business, it is hard to do everything right, all of the time (health & safety at work is a good one - doesn't matter how much effort you put in as as business owner, if one of your employees has an accident the authorities will find a way to blame the employer).

One factor to bear in mind when considering the adequacy of AMP's capital, is what do they do with Customer Segregated Funds. Firstly AMP state they do not do any trading on their own behalf (proprietory). Secondly they do not invest/trade/speculate with customer segregated funds - as I understand it they only put them on deposit at a bank.

This can all be read here: https://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=bd5915db-d413-4abd-b64d-0f4409de028d - see last paragraph just before 'Material Risks' section and also 'Relevant Financial data' section for comment confirming no proprietory trading.

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  #314 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Platform: SC and TWS
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steve2222 View Post
@Scalpguy

If I understand correctly you would like to see their Balance Sheet?

No problem they post their monthly balance sheet and Annual Financial Report right here:

CFTC Rule 1.55 Reporting - AMP

There is no separate Income Statement, but I suspect that is because the business is effectively a sole trader and the owner is reporting the net profit in his personal tax return ie the profit is probably 100% taken out of the business.

But it is easy to check - just look at the change in the Ownership Equity in the B/S from one month to the next (as you can view the historical monthly reports).

In the case of brokers the income statement is not very relevant document in this issue but thanks for the balance sheet link. It seems it is a requirement by the CFTC so every registered broker have to give it I quess.

People should view the broker's balance sheets without the customer segregated funds to see the real finnancial condition of the company. In the case of AMP it looks it is a very thin company. We are talking assets of silly couple of millions Please see attached list (ordered by the adj.net capital) they are the 4th smallest firm in the business.

Anyway. It seems I will keep the account active but still so much worried that I do not keep cash more than peanuts with them and still looking another alternatives too. Advantage futures maybe ?

The attached and "order edited" financial data document is produced by the CFTC and the original home page is
https://www.cftc.gov/MarketReports/FinancialDataforFCMs/index.htm

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xlsx fcmdata0915-xls-Order_AdNetCap.xlsx (32.6 KB, 17 views)
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  #315 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: SC and TWS
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Trading: ES
 
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steve2222 View Post
One factor to bear in mind when considering the adequacy of AMP's capital, is what do they do with Customer Segregated Funds. Firstly AMP state they do not do any trading on their own behalf (proprietory). Secondly they do not invest/trade/speculate with customer segregated funds - as I understand it they only put them on deposit at a bank.

This can all be read here: https://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=bd5915db-d413-4abd-b64d-0f4409de028d - see last paragraph just before 'Material Risks' section and also 'Relevant Financial data' section for comment confirming no proprietory trading.

Thank you very much for this information.

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  #316 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Delawer View Post
Im not trying to annoying or blame anything. Is only a review, I also comment good points, and even in other forums of executions. I wasnt really hard (for instance sometimes after I switched off and relog, some orders I never deployed were there and dont think is a platform problem). All the review is TRUE. Obviously there are some thoughs, couse this is a broker review thread, and appart from te fatcs, there are some thoughs that are other trades wich have to judge by themselves.
Dont take it to the personal side.

Im now trying IQFeed will post futher review.

You are blaming and misinforming.
Not one here takes anything personally when discussed as professionals, however, your points about your trading execution and platform can not be taken seriously, when you have no grasp of order execution, order flow on a regulated exchange and the fact that winning or losing does not depend on you.

I highly suggest that you learn the futures market mechanism before you share your experience with the next platform, broker and data feed.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #317 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Quoting 
Not sure how our monies are protected with futures traders. @mattz can you shed some light on this subject?

The funds are segregated from the operation of your FCM and IB.

This is just a general statement, and I am not endorsing one FCM over another, rather just a macro perspective.
Also, this is NOT legal advice of where you should keep your funds. Do your own due diligence.

I have observed from my vast experience with FCMs that in the interest of time and business when fines occur, you settle, pay the fine and take corrective steps to rectify and improve the operation.
If everyone looked at their own FCMs records, they would see if the FCM was in business for many years, there would be fines from the NFA and/or other regulatory agencies. FCMs are complex operations and there are many specific guides and regulations that need to be followed. You take the regulatory findings seriously and implement as per recommendations.

Also, it is important to read the answer that the FCM provided to any allegation, as it also gives you the chance to see how seriously your FCM address these findings.

I hope this helps.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #318 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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It should be noted that @mattz uses AMP as an FCM in his business, keep that in mind when reading his responses in this thread.

Full circle it seems, as the first posts by AMP years ago were making fun of Optimus here, and now Matt has been forced to use them due to the events following NT Brokerage and NT platform decisions.

This is my opinion, you can form your own.

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  #319 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
It should be noted that @mattz uses AMP as an FCM in his business, keep that in mind when reading his responses in this thread.

Full circle it seems, as the first posts by AMP years ago were making fun of Optimus here, and now Matt has been forced to use them due to the events following NT Brokerage and NT platform decisions.

This is my opinion, you can form your own.

Sent from my phone

Yes, we use AMP clearing, amongst 4 others clearing FCM as an IIB.
Yes, we were made fun of which is rather sad, but AMP also took many steps to help us as our FCM when Vision was no longer operational. Their staff has been thus far extremely helpful to us.
They just do their job, and are far removed from all the personal battles that occur in this business.
Yes, The NT brokerage had tremendous affect our decision to become an IIB, especially the day they turned into a brokerage popups were appearing on the software to switch to their brokerage.
This is after many years of mutual respect and understanding.

My choices as far clearing today reflect customers needs, and they stand above my personal feelings.

You have always respected people's choices even if they oppose to yours.
I was asked a question about seg funds and answered it with a general statement without mention one FCM or another.
We have been allies for many years, and you know how dedicated I am towards servicing people right.
Our customers are distributed amongst all the FCMs specifically according to customers wants and needs.

I appreciate your understanding.

Thank you,

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #320 (permalink)
 Delawer 
LEON / SPAIN
 
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Trading: Stocks, FUTURES
 
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mattz View Post
You are blaming and misinforming.
Not one here takes anything personally when discussed as professionals, however, your points about your trading execution and platform can not be taken seriously, when you have no grasp of order execution, order flow on a regulated exchange and the fact that winning or losing does not depend on you.

I highly suggest that you learn the futures market mechanism before you share your experience with the next platform, broker and data feed.

Matt
Optimus Futures

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This was one of my sources: https://www.fca.org.uk/static/pubs/guidance/gc11_23.pdf
Besides, I have been told than some brokers (I didnt say couse its something I cant proof and dont know if is the case of AMP) held customers orders for example in the ES (not in the SP); wich means those could not been traded in the exchange.
About order execution I know CME rules and impled orders about (dont know if is enough).
And last, if a maker maker take a look at client orders, that means that could trade against them.

Correct me if Im wrong in anything and will take into account for further analisys.

Tx

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Delawer View Post
This was one of my sources: https://www.fca.org.uk/static/pubs/guidance/gc11_23.pdf
Besides, I have been told than some brokers (I didnt say couse its something I cant proof and dont know if is the case of AMP) held customers orders for example in the ES (not in the SP); wich means those could not been traded in the exchange.
About order execution I know CME rules and impled orders about (dont know if is enough).
And last, if a maker maker take a look at client orders, that means that could trade against them.

Correct me if Im wrong in anything and will take into account for further analisys.

Tx


When I have a minute, I will read this. But, I would first inquire within the FCA, which asset class they discussed here and what institutions it addresses. Personally, I think you should start a new thread "Order Flow Payment" instead of discussing it here. This would also become a good educational topic.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #322 (permalink)
 Delawer 
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mattz View Post
When I have a minute, I will read this. But, I would first inquire within the FCA, which asset class they discussed here and what institutions it addresses. Personally, I think you should start a new thread "Order Flow Payment" instead of discussing it here. This would also become a good educational topic.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Due to my new data recovered with IQfeed and Ninjatrader I will re-write my review avoiding my thoughs and will take care only the non-mechanical issues related about. I will also review the data recovered with AMP and compare it. Will edit later.

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  #323 (permalink)
 Delawer 
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...and updating that they can cover past clients debts accounts with no negative impact for the client (i.eg out of bussiness) wich is a extremelly good point for AMP.

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  #324 (permalink)
 Delawer 
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FINAL ReVIEW.
Support
- Well, I have to say first, as told before that (in my case) debts were covered wich is a good point for AMP. It means that is not likely you run out of bussiness.
- Treatment was quite good, and problems or inquires were solved with no more than 1 day.
-Daily Statmens good detailed and accurate.
Order execution
Number of contract traded: 600 (more or less) contracts traded- during 6 months in differents conditions
-Execution speed were good or on average
- Buy-sell side. In low speed marketYou can obtain fast and good prices taking (4-5 ticks) (marketable or limits) orders for a customers and work orders close to NBBO [with a ratio of 98%] fast and reliable.
As espected in futures, sell-side in short term (2ticks) cheked in several conditions have a very low probability ratio [0'00072] as is logical, you cant sell something to the market more expensive than you have recently bought.
Software
-A huge variety.
I recommend them to carry your brokerage bussines for low capitalized firms or private brokers.

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  #325 (permalink)
 steve2222 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
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Over on this closed thread:
@sam028 raised this point that needed clarification:


Quoting 
Be careful.

AMP is an FCM, the clearing fees and the commission fees goes in the same pockets.
I assume they can remove what they call commission fees and increase what they call the clearing fees.
As all their usual fees are not available on their web site, hard to say if it make sense to blindly spend $1000..

I responded to Sam with this post:



I can advise I have now had clarification from AMP and Sam is correct in that commission and clearing fees are bundled. This deal only 'saves' the per trade commission component. So my example of a breakeven point is wrong.

The correct position would be: if you trade on 200 days of the year, you would need to r/t 10 ES contracts a day to breakeven on this deal ie you are avoiding the $0.25 per side commission if you paid $1000 up front for a year.

For a number of traders (incl several obvious traders on this site) that would be easy to achieve. Of course it is not limited to just ES - any instrument qualifies. Also it is not limited to one trading platform either. Trades on any trading platform that AMP supports will qualify. But read their fine print for some limited exclusions.

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  #326 (permalink)
 sam028 
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That looks correct in your case, but only if the clearing fees stays the same.
As both fees are bundled they could remove the commission part of the fees and rise the clearing part.
Who knows!


steve2222 View Post
Over on this closed thread:
@sam028 raised this point that needed clarification:



I responded to Sam with this post:



I can advise I have now had clarification from AMP and Sam is correct in that commission and clearing fees are bundled. This deal only 'saves' the per trade commission component. So my example of a breakeven point is wrong.

The correct position would be: if you trade on 200 days of the year, you would need to r/t 10 ES contracts a day to breakeven on this deal ie you are avoiding the $0.25 per side commission if you paid $1000 up front for a year.

For a number of traders (incl several obvious traders on this site) that would be easy to achieve. Of course it is not limited to just ES - any instrument qualifies. Also it is not limited to one trading platform either. Trades on any trading platform that AMP supports will qualify. But read their fine print for some limited exclusions.


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 Delawer 
LEON / SPAIN
 
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"FINAL ReVIEW.
Support
- Well, I have to say first, as told before that (in my case) debts were covered wich is a good point for AMP. It means that is not likely you run out of bussiness.
- Treatment was quite good, and problems or inquires were solved with no more than 1 day.
-Daily Statmens good detailed and accurate.
Order execution
Number of contract traded: 600 (more or less) contracts traded- during 6 months in differents conditions
-Execution speed were good or on average
- Buy-sell side. In low speed marketYou can obtain fast and good prices taking (4-5 ticks) (marketable or limits) orders for a customers and work orders close to NBBO [with a ratio of 98%] fast and reliable.

Software
-A huge variety.
I recommend them to carry your brokerage bussines for low capitalized firms or private brokers."

I have to update my review, my last 20 sell contract were filled and taken wich means a 100% in this case. Probably is not about the order execution itself but about the poor colocation in my past trades to make the reasearch. Still under research. Apologies then.

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  #328 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sam028 View Post
That looks correct in your case, but only if the clearing fees stays the same.
As both fees are bundled they could remove the commission part of the fees and rise the clearing part.
Who knows!

It is documented (probably in this thread) that some brokers or in this case FCM's have switched tactics to charging "clearing fees". Broker 1 may have a higher commission, but no clearing fee. Broker 2 may have a lower commission, or "free" commission, but a clearing fee that could result it your actual net cost being higher than broker 1.

But, another possibility is that the broker knows its customer base, and knows that the $300 and $400 margin guys that this particular broker is specifically targeting usually blow up their account in no more than 2-3 months (as an example), and therefore getting them to spend a one-time fee of $1,000 upfront actually is more profitable for the broker. This can be calculated by simply averaging the normal commissions for a typical customer until they blow up.

There is also the possibility that this promotion is an attempt to raise capital.

Mike

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  #329 (permalink)
 everetts 
Portland, OR
 
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I have a colo account with AMP in Chicago and I just added a bar timer to the chart. I've been using my home pc mostly but had this colo in anticipation of executing faster. I thought I'd share how their server time is over a minute off, even after I synched it. It works correctly at home but the CQG feed lags by almost 30 seconds at home when the bar timer should roll over it just sits there at 0 seconds for almost 30 seconds.

I think I need to move from AMP. Yes, I know I should've done it sooner.

I use my 401k there for trading, with Midland IRA as the administrator.

Anyone else used Midland and have a recommendation?

Thanks.


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  #330 (permalink)
 Okina 
montreal quebec/canada
 
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everetts View Post
I have a colo account with AMP in Chicago and I just added a bar timer to the chart. I've been using my home pc mostly but had this colo in anticipation of executing faster. I thought I'd share how their server time is over a minute off, even after I synched it. It works correctly at home but the CQG feed lags by almost 30 seconds at home when the bar timer should roll over it just sits there at 0 seconds for almost 30 seconds.

I think I need to move from AMP. Yes, I know I should've done it sooner.

I use my 401k there for trading, with Midland IRA as the administrator.

Anyone else used Midland and have a recommendation?

Thanks.


I think your problem has nothing to do with AMP. My delay with CQG data feed is just a few ms and I never see that with AMP either.

I have rythmic and CQG I have NT and CQG IC +CQG Qtrader running at the same time each of them with different FCM and I never experience a delay that is more than the latency of my internet line + a few millisecond for the execution.

R.I.P. Olivier Terrier (aka "Okina"), 1969-2016.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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 sam028 
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I assume they did a poor job in configuring their Windows master image.
You may disable the Windows Time service and configure correctly a good time sync service like D4 or Meinberg NTP.
With virtual machines (I assume this is what you have) clocks are drifting very quickly but correctly configured it will stay relatively accurate (< 0.5 sec).


everetts View Post
I have a colo account with AMP in Chicago and I just added a bar timer to the chart. I've been using my home pc mostly but had this colo in anticipation of executing faster. I thought I'd share how their server time is over a minute off, even after I synched it. It works correctly at home but the CQG feed lags by almost 30 seconds at home when the bar timer should roll over it just sits there at 0 seconds for almost 30 seconds.

I think I need to move from AMP. Yes, I know I should've done it sooner.

I use my 401k there for trading, with Midland IRA as the administrator.

Anyone else used Midland and have a recommendation?

Thanks.



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  #332 (permalink)
 everetts 
Portland, OR
 
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I thought about that as well. I used the time.nist.gov service on the colo server running windows server, before the last screenshot. I used the same service at my home pc and it synched correctly but not on this colo.

I rebooted the colo server but I believe their ntp clock, or whatever they use on the kernal, is off.

Thanks for the heads up.

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  #333 (permalink)
 sam028 
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everetts View Post
I thought about that as well. I used the time.nist.gov service on the colo server running windows server, before the last screenshot. I used the same service at my home pc and it synched correctly but not on this colo.

I rebooted the colo server but I believe their ntp clock, or whatever they use on the kernal, is off.

Thanks for the heads up.

time.nist.gov is one of the default time servers on Windows machine, used by W32time service. Something you should not use.
Assuming you're admin of the colo server you can change it by yourself. Your own PC won't drift too much as it's a physical machine, not a virtual machine.
A good configuration should look like this:

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 HoopyTrading 
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If I may be so bold, the NIST is where it all starts. The problem is not with NIST (used to be the NBS). THEY are the atomic clock we all synchronize to. It may be a problem with your internet packet loss, latency, etc etc. Here, just listen to them...

NIST Radio Station WWV

Phone number for the real-time atomic clock pulsing, and all UTC time ever....1 (303) 499-7111. Give them a call, and just listen.

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 HoopyTrading 
Boston, MA
 
 
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In fact, here is what you do. You call that number, yes? While listening to the time code on that number, you look at your Windows clock, in an analog format so you can see the second-hand ticking. You will see that there is much more laggy junk in the PC that makes the PC clock falter and become "unsynced", rather than the atomic clock you hear on the phone, going off-kilter.

P.S. That phone number disconnects you after about 2 mins. Just call back to reconnect.

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  #336 (permalink)
 pjimmy 
Wellington, New Zealand
 
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I have decided to close my account with AMP. -Actually I decided to do that over a week ago.
I received this confirmation email:

'The withdrawal request has been received and is in pending verification status. Once the risk department confirms available funds, you will receive an email confirming completion of this request.'

So a week passes and I havent heard anything... ok chat with live support.
them- Sorry that withdrawal has been declined as your balance request was incorrect.
me- yes but I'm shutting my account. and you didnt TELL me there was a problem. How else would I know?
them- sorry cant help you.
me- sigh.

So now I've been billed for all the services I use for another month.

Very poor service and communication from them.

The only thing constant in life is change
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pjimmy View Post
I have decided to close my account with AMP. -Actually I decided to do that over a week ago.
I received this confirmation email:

'The withdrawal request has been received and is in pending verification status. Once the risk department confirms available funds, you will receive an email confirming completion of this request.'

So a week passes and I havent heard anything... ok chat with live support.
them- Sorry that withdrawal has been declined as your balance request was incorrect.
me- yes but I'm shutting my account. and you didnt TELL me there was a problem. How else would I know?
them- sorry cant help you.
me- sigh.

So now I've been billed for all the services I use for another month.

Very poor service and communication from them.

We clear via AMP and typically the treasury always sends out cash on time and upon request.
I think that the response you had was due to someone who is not on the treasury side.
If you need assistance, we would be more than happy to assist you.

Thank you,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #338 (permalink)
 HoopyTrading 
Boston, MA
 
 
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pjimmy, off-topic, but wanted to give you a shout-out for your "Simon's Cat" avatar pic. "Mrowww! (Feed me)!" Those cartoons made me laff much. Good stuff.

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  #339 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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AMP announced lower commissions!

"
To accommodate all of our customers trading styles, we have updated our pricing to go as low as $0.15 per side + fees!

NO Gimmicks
NO Fine Print
NO Limited Time Offers

Just Cheapest Pricing!

AMP's Exact All-In Pricing for all 60+ Trading Platforms >

For Existing AMP Customers > Nothing needed from you. Your AMP account has been automatically updated.

Please tell all your Trading Friends!!

"

https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

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  #340 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
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Hi

I have recently signed up with AMP but am concerned by this traders experience with them (this occurred this year). So they basically lost his days profit and suggested he must have traded SIM. I understand he did eventually get his money back but it took days. Its quite scary that this can happen.



Has this happened to anyone else?

Does anyone from AMP post on here? Perhaps they can allay my fears.

Thanks.

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  #341 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Does anyone from AMP post on here? Perhaps they can allay my fears.

AMP trading was banned a long time ago for violating forum policy.



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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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Big Mike View Post
AMP trading was banned a long time ago for violating forum policy.



Mike

Crikey that's not good. Wasn't too sure if that guy earlier in this thread was an employee.

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  #343 (permalink)
 westmalle 
Eindhoven The Netherlands
 
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First thing I do in the morning is to activate my screenrecorder so I capture all my charts, DOM and systemlogs video.
Whenever there is a dispute (I never had with any broker) you can reconstruct what happened. I also found on occasion that my original assumptions on an issue were wrong after studying the video I had for that trading day.
So then there is never an issue whether you traded SIM or not on a certain day.

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  #344 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
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westmalle View Post
First thing I do in the morning is to activate my screenrecorder so I capture all my charts, DOM and systemlogs video.
Whenever there is a dispute (I never had with any broker) you can reconstruct what happened. I also found on occasion that my original assumptions on an issue were wrong after studying the video I had for that trading day.
So then there is never an issue whether you traded SIM or not on a certain day.

Thks for response.
What screen recorder do you run?


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  #345 (permalink)
 westmalle 
Eindhoven The Netherlands
 
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I use an old version of HyperCam2. Do not record sound to limit the file size.
At Tom's Guide you can download a legal free version, just search on internet.

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  #346 (permalink)
 skoosht 
Los Angeles, CA, USA
 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Hi

I have recently signed up with AMP but am concerned by this traders experience with them (this occurred this year). So they basically lost his days profit and suggested he must have traded SIM. I understand he did eventually get his money back but it took days. Its quite scary that this can happen.



Has this happened to anyone else?

Does anyone from AMP post on here? Perhaps they can allay my fears.

Thanks.


I've never had an issue with them that wasn't resolved in a day or two. Their prices are cheap and customer service reflects that at times, but if you are fairly proficient and aware of the ins and outs of the business I don't see an issue. You definitely won't have your hand held much by them FYI.
There are better brokers, there are worse brokers

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  #347 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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skoosht View Post
I've never had an issue with them that wasn't resolved in a day or two. Their prices are cheap and customer service reflects that at times, but if you are fairly proficient and aware of the ins and outs of the business I don't see an issue. You definitely won't have your hand held much by them FYI.
There are better brokers, there are worse brokers

being told that you traded sim when you didnt, and your pnl disappearing, is fairly fundamental issue. perhaps we have different views on what is important and whats not. integrity to me is fairly key.

thks for response.

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  #348 (permalink)
 skoosht 
Los Angeles, CA, USA
 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
being told that you traded sim when you didnt, and your pnl disappearing, is fairly fundamental issue. perhaps we have different views on what is important and whats not. integrity to me is fairly key.

thks for response.


True I agree, if that happened it would be a monumental F-up. It's obviously not a rampant problem or you would hear much more about it. In my experience (which to be fair is just my experience) they've been "fine".
Truth is there's probably more to that story, 2-sides etc..
Always be aware of your environment and definitely yes record your screen, protect yourself at all costs.

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  #349 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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AMP Trading customer data breach (70 gigs, ~100k files)

More:


Mike

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Three1seventy
Chicago USA
 
 
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AMP Global Clearing, LLC (AMP) is sending you this notice to keep you updated about your data on our servers. We were recently approached by a Cybersecurity research company with a claim that they had discovered a vulnerability in one of our back-up file storage server.

AMP responded by working with its IT service providers to ensure all vulnerabilities were eliminated in that server. The Cybersecurity research company then confirmed that the vulnerability had been resolved.

We have worked with the Cybersecurity research company, to ensure that all proper steps were taken to safeguard our customers’ information.

We are in direct communication with this Cybersecurity Company and our regulatory agencies. They have confirmed the files they accessed are currently encrypted, pending the instructions of the SEC.

From our understanding, this company’s mission is to make the cyber world safer by educating businesses and communities worldwide, with the goal of helping to protect data, identifying data leaks and following responsible disclosure policy.

At this time, AMP is confident that there are no vulnerabilities on any of our servers.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to our customer service representative https://www.ampfutures.com/contact-us/

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  #351 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
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Three1seventy View Post
AMP Global Clearing, LLC (AMP) is sending you this notice to keep you updated about your data on our servers. We were recently approached by a Cybersecurity research company with a claim that they had discovered a vulnerability in one of our back-up file storage server.



AMP responded by working with its IT service providers to ensure all vulnerabilities were eliminated in that server. The Cybersecurity research company then confirmed that the vulnerability had been resolved.



We have worked with the Cybersecurity research company, to ensure that all proper steps were taken to safeguard our customers’ information.



We are in direct communication with this Cybersecurity Company and our regulatory agencies. They have confirmed the files they accessed are currently encrypted, pending the instructions of the SEC.



From our understanding, this company’s mission is to make the cyber world safer by educating businesses and communities worldwide, with the goal of helping to protect data, identifying data leaks and following responsible disclosure policy.



At this time, AMP is confident that there are no vulnerabilities on any of our servers.



If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to our customer service representative https://www.ampfutures.com/contact-us/

As a recipient of this same letter, I'd like to say that I find the letter to be misleading in light of the above link regarding the actual person who "found" the data. Perhaps I am missing something but I imagine the researcher found the data being sold for distribution rather than simply finding the flaw in the IT company's data infrastructure.

If I'm right (and I do not truly know if I am), then AMP's letter should warn us that our information is in the wild and encourage us to take precautions. This is the standard practice....for a reason. Failure to do so exposes AMP to liability if AMP knows the data is in the wild fails to alert the affected customers.

Instead, the letter tells us that the data is encrypted without telling us how the information was obtained by the researcher. This leaves the impression that all is still secure and that there was no breach or that no sensitive information was let into the wild....which is false unless I'm seriously misunderstanding what happened. I have not had time to parse all the language but I do not think I am misunderstanding anything.

If I am just wrong or stupid, please correct me. And I strongly apologize if I am.

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 barren 
Germany
 
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I have with other brokers in the USA trading accounts. After seeing the rates of AMP and the possibility of trading not only futures but options as well, I tried to open an account.
Since I will be in Chicago shortly I wanted to see them at their offices. My request was neglected all the time but I was questioned with all sorts of questions with automated emails. I did answer all of them and finally had "my" broker with his email adress. Again I requested to meet personally, I always like to see the people I am going to work with, plus the fact that I wanted to transfer an substantial amount to their account.
I never heard again. I checked my spam folder, nothing , I have written again, maybe my mail was lost. No answer. I guess the answer, at least for me is simple. Avoid them at all means.

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  #353 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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barren View Post
I have with other brokers in the USA trading accounts. After seeing the rates of AMP and the possibility of trading not only futures but options as well, I tried to open an account.
Since I will be in Chicago shortly I wanted to see them at their offices. My request was neglected all the time but I was questioned with all sorts of questions with automated emails. I did answer all of them and finally had "my" broker with his email adress. Again I requested to meet personally, I always like to see the people I am going to work with, plus the fact that I wanted to transfer an substantial amount to their account.
I never heard again. I checked my spam folder, nothing , I have written again, maybe my mail was lost. No answer. I guess the answer, at least for me is simple. Avoid them at all means.

t is unfortunate you could not see them. However, I visited their office a number of times and they always welcomed me. Granted, I am their IB, but at the same time, they never refused a visit. I am in Chicago quite often, and would be more than happy to assist you with a visit to see their staff and operation which is beyond one single broker.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #354 (permalink)
 barren 
Germany
 
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After my post it did not take long and I was mailed by a representative of AMP apologizing of what has happened. Because of the speed of their answer (finally ) I do accept their apologize and definite will give AMP a second chance.
lets forget what has happened , things can only improve....

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  #355 (permalink)
sandman2
Dusseldorf Germany
 
 
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Can someone shed a light on what happened with AMP Futures? As of today, 27 Aug 2017, going to their website, at wwwdotampfuturesdotcom says "The account has been suspended."

sandman

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  #356 (permalink)
 Dasani 
United States of America
 
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Looks like AMP went under. I thought they would eventually.

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  #357 (permalink)
 BogeyGolfer 
Sarasota, FL
 
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Looks like it's a hosting issue. I have no problem logging into my account.


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  #358 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Dasani View Post
Looks like AMP went under. I thought they would eventually.

Nooooooo this is not the case.

If something goes under there is allways a message about the situation and instructions how to continue.

99.9% sure this is an internet service provider glitch (hosting) BUT quite embarrassed anyway and gives a bit odd picture about the way they are doing their web presence.

---

Anyway this is a very good point to remember the serious problems can happen anytime and this is why I withdraw profits frequently (monthly) and will keep only the margin requirements (+ trading buffer for balance fluctuations [-10R]) in the account. So when the day comes and the hammer will hit the damage will be minimized.

---

Accorind to this data the problem maker is LunarPages company

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  #359 (permalink)
sandman2
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BogeyGolfer View Post
Looks like it's a hosting issue. I have no problem logging into my account.

Thanks!

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  #360 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Hosting snag. it's back online.

Matt Z
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Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #361 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr7693-18

RELEASE: pr7693-18

February 12, 2018

CFTC Orders AMP Global Clearing LLC to Pay $100,000 for Supervision Failures Related to Cybersecurity of its Customers’ Records and Information

Washington, DC*– The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) today issued an Order filing and simultaneously settling charges against*AMP Global Clearing LLC*(AMP), a registered Futures Commission Merchant since 2010, for its failure between June 21, 2016 and April 17, 2017 to supervise diligently the implementation of critical provisions in AMP’s information systems security program (ISSP). As a result of this failure, a significant amount of AMP’s customers’ records and information were left unprotected for nearly ten months. In April 2017, as a result of this failure, a third party unaffiliated with AMP (Third Party) accessed AMP’s information technology network and copied approximately 97,000 files, which included customers’ records and information, including personally identifiable information. The Third Party thereafter contacted federal authorities about securing the copied information, and subsequently informed AMP that the copied information had been secured and was no longer in the Third Party’s possession. After becoming aware of the vulnerability and unauthorized access, AMP cooperated with the CFTC and worked diligently to remediate the issue.

CFTC’s Director of Enforcement Comments

James McDonald, the CFTC’s Director of Enforcement, commented: “Entities entrusted with sensitive information must work diligently to protect that information. That’s not only good business, but when it comes to registrants in our markets, it’s the law. As this case shows, the CFTC will work hard to ensure regulated entities live up to that responsibility, which has taken on increasing importance as cyber threats extend across our financial system.”

Specifically, the Order finds that AMP failed to supervise its IT Provider’s implementation of ISSP provisions it was delegated with implementing under AMP’s supervision, including identifying and performing risk assessments of access routes into AMP’s network, performing quarterly network risk assessments to identify vulnerabilities, maintaining strict firewall rules, and detecting unauthorized activity on the network. This failure left a significant amount of AMP’s customers’ records and information vulnerable to cyber-exploitation for nearly ten months, until the Third Party accessed AMP’s network.

The Order finds that the vulnerability in AMP’s network involved an open access route in a network attached storage device (NASD). Three successive quarterly network risk assessments failed to identify this vulnerability. Indeed, the Order finds that, before the Third Party accessed the NASD’s contents, the media had reported three other incidents of unauthorized access of NASDs used by organizations other than AMP, including some from the same manufacturer of AMP’s NASD. Yet AMP did not detect the vulnerability until its network was accessed and customer records and information compromised.

The Order requires AMP to pay a $100,000 civil monetary penalty and cease and desist from violating the CFTC regulation governing diligent supervision. The Order further requires AMP to provide two written follow-up reports, within one-year of entry of the Order, to the CFTC verifying AMP’s ongoing efforts to maintain and strengthen the security of its network and its compliance with its ISSP’s requirements.

The Order recognizes AMP’s substantial cooperation and remediation during the CFTC’s Division of Enforcement’s investigation of this matter, which included providing important information and analysis to the Division that helped the Division to efficiently and effectively undertake its investigation. The Order notes that the civil monetary penalty imposed on AMP reflects AMP’s cooperation.

The CFTC thanks the Securities and Exchange Commission for its assistance in this matter.

Jeremy Christianson and Christopher Beatty from the CFTC’s Office of Data and Technology also provided assistance in this matter.

CFTC Division of Enforcement staff members responsible for this action are Harry E. Wedewer, Trevor Kokal, Candice Aloisi, Lenel Hickson, Jr., and Manal M. Sultan.

Media Contact
Dennis Holden
202-418-5088

Last Updated: February 12, 2018



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  #362 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
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Just my two cent opinion, but seems like amp made out well w this.

I believe they had to show what they will do from now on to improve internal oversight and show compliance w that plan out into the future, which is easy enough to facade actually. Ensuring compliance w the internal security procedure is difficult for an agency to enforce unless the agency outsources that task to a better security firm than the FCM hires.

This was a lucky and friendly warning shot; and amp should realize that this could've been worse. In fact, the argument is that the friendly researcher was not the only person to get the sensitive info...which I believe to be the case but also that the stolen info wasn't uber sensitive or useable in the end.

Meh. Ymmv. Idk.


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  #363 (permalink)
 YYKK 
Tokyo Japan
 
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AMP charge me data fees that I had never subscribed.
I found that at the monthly statement.
I had never subscribe EUREX and DOW index data.
But AMP charged me there cost.
I understand you don't believe me.
But it is really happened. Unbelievable.
Yesterday I sent the email for fees@ampclearing.com about refund.
But they still ignore my email.

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  #364 (permalink)
 YYKK 
Tokyo Japan
 
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AMP Dan reply to me. My futures.io post was works fine, thank you Mike.

Summery :
First reply he did not say "sorry" for me. I think this is should be a first words.

He has proud this horrible back end system.
He acknowledged this type of problem sometimes happen.
He will nothing to do for better back end system.

This time my problem come form Setup instruction mail form. This mail form is completely not working for my environment.
But my small suggestion "just renewal the mail form" was rejected.

He mentioned "You will see the credit for the reversal of these exchange data fees on your statement tonight" reply was 17 hours ago. now is 23:25 EST. I still not get the refund.
And I have to fight again about next month's Exchange fee that I've not subscribe.

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  #365 (permalink)
 YYKK 
Tokyo Japan
 
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I got a refund. My case resolved.
This is a complete waste of time and energy.

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  #366 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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I might be missing something but how is AMP the cheapest broker out there?
I have tried them and I paid over 7,5 USD / round turn on YM.
Also why do they charge clearing fees if they clear the trades

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  #367 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Yuri57 View Post
I might be missing something but how is AMP the cheapest broker out there?
I have tried them and I paid over 7,5 USD / round turn on YM.
Also why do they charge clearing fees if they clear the trades


These are not even close to what AMP charges in terms of commissions when they have their default margins of $500 on YM (at least not our customers). Check what margins you set yourself up with.

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Matt Z
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There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of futures results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #368 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
I might be missing something but how is AMP the cheapest broker out there?
I have tried them and I paid over 7,5 USD / round turn on YM.
Also why do they charge clearing fees if they clear the trades

It looks like you have not been their customer. I think you just looked their price list and accidentally multiplied their RT price by 2

Please do your research more carefully:
https://application.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

Peace

btw. The clearing fee is because it is not free to clear those trades (for amp) and as in every business you have to make some profits so there is a reason to do the business. Go for foundations if you are not interested in profits. Right ?

---

I am very well aware the AMP customer service is not the best available in the industry and if you have a 10000 customer base it is for sure some of them will have bad expericeces. After trading the futures markets over 10 years now with many different brokers I know they all have their weak points. For me 7 years with AMP has really been a great time so if you ask me I really can recommend their service. But as allways be cautious and manage your risk. Nothing is 100% bullet proof.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #369 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
It looks like you have not been their customer. I think you just looked their price list and accidentally multiplied their RT price by 2

Please do your research more carefully:
https://application.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

Peace

btw. The clearing fee is because it is not free to clear those trades (for amp) and as in every business you have to make some profits so there is a reason to do the business. Go for foundations if you are not interested in profits. Right ?

---

I am very well aware the AMP customer service is not the best available in the industry and if you have a 10000 customer base it is for sure some of them will have bad expericeces. After trading the futures markets over 10 years now with many different brokers I know they all have their weak points. For me 7 years with AMP has really been a great time so if you ask me I really can recommend their service. But as allways be cautious and manage your risk. Nothing is 100% bullet proof.

Yeah, if they had proper customer support I wouldn't be asking this question here.
To be fair I have tried the 300 margin out of curiosity.


As you can see clearing, exchange fees (plus NFA, CQG) is 3.56 USD / RT
PLUS commissions which in case of using 300 margin is 6 USD / RT (9.56 USD / RT in total)
While at the link with 500 margins it is 2.03 USD / side or 7.62 USD / RT in total

For whom they charge 0.15 USD / side is totally unclear to me and not stated on their website.

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  #370 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
Yeah, if they had proper customer support I wouldn't be asking this question here.
To be fair I have tried the 300 margin out of curiosity.
Attachment 247906

As you can see clearing, exchange fees (plus NFA, CQG) is 3.56 USD / RT
PLUS commissions which in case of using 300 margin is 6 USD / RT (9.56 USD / RT in total)
While at the link with 500 margins it is 2.03 USD / side or 7.62 USD / RT in total

For whom they charge 0.15 USD / side is totally unclear to me and not stated on their website.

I have not tried $300 margins so I cannot say is that an error or what BUT with "normal" $500 margins you pay what the given link tells to you.

For example with the FlatRate/CQG/SierraChart combiantion it is $3.56 per RT.

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  #371 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
I have not tried $300 margins so I cannot say is that an error or what BUT with "normal" $500 margins you pay what the given link tells to you.

For example with the FlatRate/CQG/SierraChart combiantion it is $3.56 per RT.


PLUS
exchange, clearing, NFA and CQG fees which is another 3.56 USD (by chance).
So you are paying over 7 USD / RT in total.

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  #372 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post

PLUS
exchange, clearing, NFA and CQG fees which is another 3.56 USD (by chance).
So you are paying over 7 USD / RT in total.

That is not correct.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #373 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
That is not correct.

Prove me wrong, I have attached my statement!

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  #374 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
Prove me wrong, I have attached my statement!

I have tons of reports which are exactly the same as that link is telling for me.

If your report is not cooked then you have an error in it which should be reported and they will fix it.

Until the $300 margin is the reason... I have no experience with that. Which I doubt.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #375 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
I have tons of reports which are exactly the same as that link is telling for me.

If your report is not cooked then you have an error in it which should be reported and they will fix it.

Until the $300 margin is the reason... I have no experience with that. Which I doubt.

So you are positive that what is in the tables (AMP website) are the fees which include EVERY volume related fee?

Why on Earth would they charge you 3-times as much with 300 margins??

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  #376 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
So you are positive that what is in the tables (AMP website) are the fees which include EVERY volume related fee?

100% sure. I have 7 years of proof. Hundreds (thousands?) of reports. All checked. All matching with the price lists they show me in their web service.


Yuri57 View Post
Why on Earth would they charge you 3-times as much with 300 margins??

This is why I said "I doubt".

As said it is an error or the report is cooked.

btw. So you did not ask them ?

---

During my 7 years of AMP career I have had 2 errors in my reports. Reported and corrected soon after in the next report. So whats the problem ?!

btw2. That Windows95 is hilarious

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  #377 (permalink)
 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
100% sure. I have 7 years of proof. Hundreds (thousands?) of reports. All checked. All matching with the price lists they show me in their web service.



This is why I said "I doubt".

As said it is an error or the report is cooked.

btw. So you did not ask them ?

---

During my 7 years of AMP career I have had 2 errors in my reports. Reported and corrected soon after in the next report. So whats the problem ?!

btw2. That Windows95 is hilarious

It's not an error, this is what their site states:

"TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR $300 MARGINS: In order to day trade the E-Mini S&P, E-Mini NASDAQ and Mini Dow Jones contracts with the $300 margins, the customer must agree to commissions for all contracts on electronic markets to be set at $3.00 per side. Client is still responsible for all clearing, exchange, regulatory, subscription, platform and/or data fees."

I just never thought there would be a 3x difference in overall commission with the smaller margin, never would have asked for it.
Anyway, lesson learned, thanks for the info! :-)

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  #378 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
It's not an error, this is what their site states:

"TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR $300 MARGINS: In order to day trade the E-Mini S&P, E-Mini NASDAQ and Mini Dow Jones contracts with the $300 margins, the customer must agree to commissions for all contracts on electronic markets to be set at $3.00 per side. Client is still responsible for all clearing, exchange, regulatory, subscription, platform and/or data fees."

I just never thought there would be a 3x difference in overall commission with the smaller margin, never would have asked for it.
Anyway, lesson learned, thanks for the info! :-)

I see. So you have to pay something for the 40% discount in margin

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 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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I see. So you have to pay something for the 40% discount in margin

I don't see who benefits from these conditions other than AMP. :-)

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  #380 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
I don't see who benefits from these conditions other than AMP. :-)

Intraday swing Trader. He/she can do 40% more by the same equity.

Anyway in terms of efficiency (= daily movement, depth, tick size and commissions) YM is allmost the worst vehicle to do intra

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 Yuri57 
Budapest, Hungary
 
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Scalpguy View Post
Intraday swing Trader. He/she can do 40% more by the same equity.

Anyway in terms of efficiency (= daily movement, depth, tick size and commissions) YM is allmost the worst vehicle to do intra

I care more about predictability. :-)

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  #382 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Yuri57 View Post
I care more about predictability. :-)


It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #383 (permalink)
 Jaba 
Austin TX
 
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FYI, my e-mini Dow commish at AMP, 1 contract RT:

Exchange USD 2.32 DR
NFA USD 0.02 DR
Clearing. USD 1.00 DR
CQG TRF USD 0.20 DR
Commission USD 0.50 DR

a low volume trader here.

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 Tixwiz 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
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Are there any profitable traders out there who use AMP and regularly withdraw funds? Could you please comment on your experiences with them, if withdrawals are paid and paid promptly, or if you have encountered any problems?

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 Saham 
Riyadh-Saudi Arabia
 
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Tixwiz View Post
Are there any profitable traders out there who use AMP and regularly withdraw funds? Could you please comment on your experiences with them, if withdrawals are paid and paid promptly, or if you have encountered any problems?



I have the experience of withdrawing funds from my ِAMP account to local bank in Saudi without any issue.

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 Tixwiz 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
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Thanks for your reply Saham. Much appreciate you taking the time to give this feedback.

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 rocksolid68 
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Absolutely no issues withdrawing from AMP.

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  #388 (permalink)
 steve2222 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
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ditto

And I am in new Zealand

Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr, Danish Physicist
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 Tixwiz 
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Thanks Steve2222. Like your quote....very uplifting for some reason lol

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  #390 (permalink)
 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Metatrader 5/CQG
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I have a buy limit order at ASK. After AMP received the order and cleared it, it held the order for 241 ms before it sent the order to CQG. From step 3 to 4, it took 241 ms.
See line 4 of the image.

Is it AMP's fault or CQG? After I sent the order, there is nothing else I could do, but wait.

Why would they hold my BUY limit order (at ASKing price)? That is basically a market limit order.
Btw, I have more of these trades. I am just showing one example here.

I have a colocated server in Chicago with <1ms ping with AMP Futures Metatrader server.

I also used the command OrderSendAsync to send the order.

Here is what the help file says about OrderSendAsync.


Quoting 
The OrderSendAsync() function is used for conducting asynchronous trade operations without waiting for the trade server's response to a sent request. The function is designed for high-frequency trading, when under the terms of the trading algorithm it is unacceptable to waste time waiting for a response from the server.


Just so you know, I am just doing scalping and not HFT. Metatrader is not the right platform for HFT. After hearing from Andriy (andrico), I started looking into R|API in order to speed things up. Metatrader may not be good for scalping. If only there is another broker with a better implementation of metatrader, I do not have to give up my metatrader programs.





Thanks,
Kiks

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  #391 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Tixwiz View Post
Are there any profitable traders out there who use AMP and regularly withdraw funds? Could you please comment on your experiences with them, if withdrawals are paid and paid promptly, or if you have encountered any problems?

I've been using AMP something about 8 years now without a single glitch. So there should be no problems.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #392 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Kiks View Post
Just so you know, I am just doing scalping and not HFT. Metatrader is not the right platform for HFT. After hearing from Andriy (andrico), I started looking into R|API in order to speed things up. Metatrader may not be good for scalping. If only there is another broker with a better implementation of metatrader, I do not have to give up my metatrader programs.

Thanks,
Kiks

I am not familar with the Metatrader but I quess those timestamps are from your computer not from the AMP platform right ?

In windows you cannot get guaranteed execution times. It depends so much what the operating system is doing at the given moment. This is why I do my algos in special version of colocated Linux (direct access to NIC in dedicated core and h/w with no NMIs). IMO Rithmic is a good choice for Lx.

To get the fastest execution the clearing process is the problem (broker is checking your margins etc.) so this is why Rithmic has it's R | Diamond API™ where you can clear your trade in advance and when it's time for execution you only need to send a short execution signal to make things happen.

But to get the fastest executions use allways the native order types. These kind of orders cannot be beaten by other external computing systems no matter how fast and colocated they are (ie. expensive) because you allready are in the matching engine queue.

Yes you may know all of this stuff but I put it here so others will know.

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 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Scalpguy View Post
I am not familar with the Metatrader but I quess those timestamps are from your computer not from the AMP platform right ?

In windows you cannot get guaranteed execution times. It depends so much what the operating system is doing at the given moment. This is why I do my algos in special version of Linux, colocated. IMO Rithmic is a good choice for Lx.

To get the fastest execution the clearing process is the problem (broker is checking your margins etc.) so this is why Rithmic has it's R | Diamond API™ where you can clear your trade in advance and when it's time for execution you only need send a execution signal make things happen.

Thank you for looking at this.

Those timestamps were from metatrader server.
After I sent my order, my Windows OS just sits there while AMP & CQG do their thing.
My program's job is done at line 1 of that image.
The rest is up to them. And the "rest is up to them" part took more than 240 ms.
Every step in that route is being reported by AMP as shown in the attachment.
Those are system generated messages. My program had nothing to do with those messages.
AMP already cleared the order and it took them 4 ms.
AMP holding the order for another 240 ms before they send it to CQG is really my concern.

With the platform you are using, how long does it take for your order to get filled?
Do you know where your order is at any moment as it travels to CME then back?
How long after AMP clears your order before it sends it to CQG?

I am just trying to understand this because even if I use Rithmic API, AMP will be the bottleneck.

I do asynchronous order sending. My software does not wait for confirmation. Because I know with market limit order, my order will be one of the first in line in the limit order book.

If my order is still in the LOB and the price moves 2 ticks away, my program cancels the order.
I'll have 200+ trades during RTH and one or 20 missed trades are okay.

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  #394 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Kiks View Post
Thank you for looking at this.
Those timestamps were from metatrader server.
After I sent my order, my Windows OS just sits there while AMP & CQG do their thing.
My program's job is done at line 1 of that image.

So it's the Metatrader/Windows server who is generating those timestamps. RIght ?

Those timestamps are not real timestamps occured on AMP/CQG platform they are timestamps when your server received the messages from the platform. So you cannot be sure who is making the delay but I would bet it's your Metatrader Windows Server.

Or am I missing somehting important in this scenario ?!

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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  #395 (permalink)
 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Metatrader 5/CQG
Broker: AMP FUTURES/CQG
Trading: ES
 
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Scalpguy View Post
So it's the Metatrader/Windows server who is generating those timestamps. RIght ?

Those timestamps are not real timestamps occured on AMP/CQG platform they are timestamps when your server received the messages from the platform. So you cannot be sure who is making the delay but I would bet it's your Metatrader Windows Server.

Or am I missing somehting important in this scenario ?!

If I am running on demo account, the whole process would be done in 3 ms. Not in over 245 ms as is happening when running with a live account. Really huge difference in processing time.

It cannot be the client side, Windows and my program, doing the delay. The program runs less than 1 ms from tick arrival to issuance of an order.
The trip from client to server over the internet is < 1 ms.
It is the time spent outside the Windows box that is really taking a long time.
In that 245 ms delay, my program could have sent 1 contract 245 times asynchronously.

I think I have a clue now why some scalpers are into direct market access.

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  #396 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Kiks View Post
If I am running on demo account, the whole process would be done in 3 ms. Not in over 245 ms as is happening when running with a live account. Really huge difference in processing time.

It cannot be the client side, Windows and my program, doing the delay. The program runs less than 1 ms from tick arrival to issuance of an order.
The trip from client to server over the internet is < 1 ms.
It is the time spent outside the Windows box that is really taking a long time.
In that 245 ms delay, my program could have sent 1 contract 245 times asynchronously.

I think I have a clue now why some scalpers are into direct market access.

You cannot trust timestamps generated by the client server.

btw. Demo and Live systems are often very different environment.

Rithmic platform is able to give you the timestamps generated on the platform so you can trust them quite well. With AMP and Linux you can get easily 5 ms tick-to-trade (in 1ms connection) and If you can use dedicated h/w where you have tweaked the kernel and using for example Diamond you will go sub ms without direct connections.

I do not have any massive research in this topic but the setup has been working very well for me.

Good luck with your journey.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Scalpguy View Post
You cannot trust timestamps generated by the client server.

I am the client. AMP is the server.
How can I not trust the message from the server? Do you mean 245 ms is not really 245 ms?




Scalpguy View Post
Rithmic platform is able to give you the timestamps generated on the platform so you can trust them quite well.


Can you share a screen snapshot of Rithmic's timestamps?
Does it show all the stages of where your order is during its trip from desktop to AMP/CQG then back?

Anyway, I just got my Rithmic API credentials. Thanks to @mattz for helping out.

Thanks for your help.

Kiks

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 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Kiks View Post
I am the client. AMP is the server.
How can I not trust the message from the server? Do you mean 245 ms is not really 245 ms?

Yes. It's a question of NMIs and other events overriding your process who is generating those timestamps. You're handling timestamps which are very different what happens on the platform. Specially if you're using a Windows. VPS is a problematic environment too. Unfornately this is way too large topic to discuss here...


Kiks View Post
Can you share a screen snapshot of Rithmic's timestamps?
Does it show all the stages of where your order is during its trip from desktop to AMP/CQG then back?

Anyway, I just got my Rithmic API credentials. Thanks to @mattz for helping out.

Thanks for your help.

Kiks

Yes please subscribe to Rithmic API and learn is it suitable for your purposes. There is a very good API documentation available.

I do not know your real situation well enough to give you any precise help but I am sure I gave you some good clues and advices. Follow them if you like.

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Kiks View Post




Thanks,
Kiks

1st - 2 lines are local MT5 terminal response messages. (not just the 1st line). After the 2nd line >> Line 3 (line 3 - is the time “241 ms” from the MT5 terminal to the AMP/CQG/MT5) the order is sent/received at AMP/CQG/MT5 environment.

MT5 terminal processes orders in sequential order.
The “speed time” from the MT5 terminal >> 1st order is what took the bulk of the transfer time - 162.77 ms
This is where the initial bulk of the total “speed time” lies, all the other 4 orders processed after this 1st order took only approx. 80 ms

1st order - transfer time from his MT5 Terminal to AMP was 162.77 ms
2nd order - transfer time from his MT5 Terminal to AMP was 203.89 ms
3rd order - transfer time from his MT5 Terminal to AMP was 220.74 ms
4th order - transfer time from his MT5 Terminal to AMP was 228.08 ms
5th order - transfer time from his MT5 Terminal to AMP was 243.23 ms

You sent 5 orders and total time MT5 terminal spent to send/process all 5 orders to AMP/CQG/MT5 environment - was 243.23 ms

What is the Chicago colocation you are using? The MT5 native VPS?

Thank you,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures Support

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  #400 (permalink)
 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Hi Matt,

Thank you for getting the response from AMP. I am just trying to understand why MT5, known as a very fast platform (actually designed for HFT) , suddenly is very slow.

Let us assume it wasn’t an algo generating the order. You are sitting there and ready to order with your mouse.
Line 2 represents your “mouse click” to BUY LIMIT.
What else do you do as the buyer? You wait until you get the deal confirmed.
That’s lines 3 to 6.

For all you know, after you clicked your mouse, your electricity went down.
Are you still messing around with your mouse without the electricity? No, you can’t. Everything is in the hands of AMP/CQG/CME now.
Would they still handle your order? Of course!
That’s where lines 3 to 6 come in.

With algo trading, here is what I think happened.
Line 2 - Algo software sents an order asynchronously.
For all we know, I could have unloaded the software and shutdown windows, all programmatically, right after sending the order. I don’t care, I am sending the order and then shutting the desktop. We can do that programmatically.

Line 3 - AMP received it. Examined it if the order type is valid (buy limit). If the symbol is valid (EPU8). If the amount is valid (2853.50). If there is money in the account to cover the margin required. If there is a problem, it would reject the order and that’s the end of it. It is not necessary for my desktop computer to be hooked up and listen further to their messages.
For all you know, I have another connection on my iphone watching the trade with CQG Trader. And manage the trade on my iphone.

Line 4 - finally AMP is happy and the order is good to go. Sents it to CQG.

Line 5 - CQG sends the order to CME so they can put it on their limit order book.

Line 6 - CME fulfills and confirms




Another example. Let us say I place a stub BUY LIMIT order for ES at $1000. Hoping for a flash crash.
I can do that anywhere. On Sierra Chart, on NT on Rithmic. Anywhere. Do I spend 240 ms doing that? A mouse click from a dedicated server with a <1ms ping to AMP would take 240 ms?

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