Filled out the FXCM appl. to opening acct thru NinjaTrader's site. Spoke to my rep yesterday (Kevin) and he said FXCM will pay for my wire transfer fee I just need to show them the bill my bank charges me. Off to a good start. Happy.
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Doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will. Perfect: the enemy of Done. per·fec·tion·ist: ultimately one lacking self-confidence
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
The following user says Thank You to Blash for this post:
"So with accounts less than $5K, you are taking the other side of the trade-meaning you are the counter party, therefore we trade against FXCM and our limit orders/SL,TP are all exposed to your trading desk, correct?
That is correct."
I only trade currency futures. Futures market registered and regulated. The currency moves is similar to the cash market but without the above disadvantage-some times rigged market.
The following user says Thank You to IzhakHaim for this post:
There is not necessarily anything wrong with a broker taking the other side of the order and never sending it to market. For a broker as big as FXCM, I don't have to many concerns about it. They have a reputation and brand to uphold BUT it must also be understood that 90% of small/new traders are going to be unprofitable over time. This is just a simple fact.
As long as there is transparency, this shouldn't cause much concern about who actually profits - the broker or the wider market. A loosing trade is still a loosing trade regardless. If the broker is taking the other side, they gain the losses but also cover the wins. I'm sure they would have a robust risk management team that would be offsetting any large aggregate internal customer risk with broker trades into the wider market.
At least FXCM are upfront and tell the customer that this is what happens.
That is not the case with a lot of other brokers who will claim to send the orders through to market but will in reality be taking the other side and no one will ever really know.
Forex is notoriously bad for all sorts of games being played at the customers expense. Anyone (You included) can setup a Forex brokerage using "white label" tools and get up and running for a relatively small outlay.
There are tools available for "bucket shop" brokers that allow the manipulation of the clients data feed that then allow "stop hunting" for client orders that are not passed through to the market. This means they might cause the clients data feed to print down/up a few extra ticks but in reality the market never went to that price.
If the bucket shop broker is taking the other side of the order, they know the clients stop level AND they then manipulate the clients data feed so as to run those stops. This is where the MAJOR problem is with not passing the order through to market and the broker having the other side.
Check out this Forex Anti-Scam site and read in the comments of this link. Look for Pete and Emmet Moore's comments down the bottom in the comments section particularly to see how easy and prevalent this type of thing is in the Forex industry. https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/profit-forex-signals/
As long as the broker is not manipulating the data feed to the client, there really is no issue with them taking the other side of the order.
I used to have a Active Trader account with FXCM when I traded Forex. I still have a mini with them to play with but I left trading Forex because no matter what broker you are with, you can NEVER get all the information. There is no centralized exchange to figure out real volume or order flow so your always trading with 1 hand tied behind your back, hopping on 1 leg while being poked in the eye. That's with a GOOD broker. Simply because of how the market is structured.
Then if you have a broker playing games against you it just becomes a absolute joke to ever think you have a chance.
Occasionally I will still play around with trading something like oil on FXCM because it allows smaller Tick $/values but I use the futures market data through Sierra Charts or NT to pick trades from while executing on FXCM.
I have never noticed any issue with FXCM. They seem to be upfront and straight down the line. They had a pretty big shake up with the Swiss currency uncoupling awhile ago and from the sounds of it there were a number of customers who got caught out badly and FXCM stepped in and covered their losses and wore some of the loss themselves. From what I could gather, anything beyond the customers account balance, FXCM ended up covering and it wasn't nickle and dime accounts in some cases.
I haven't really kept up to data on the ongoing outcome of that but at the time I thought it spoke volumes about who FXCM were as a broker and their relationship they had with their customers. They now run a pretty robust risk management system and regularly send out updates days before risk events on margin requirements that change to adapt to potential market conditions.
If you don't want FXCM to be the counter party, the simple fix is to choose an account type that allows you the option to choose otherwise. At least FXCM are honest about the process and your position.
Many others brokers have claimed to send through to market but it then comes to light months or years later that was never the case. Others are just outright bucket shops set up to fleece customers of their money.
If you MUST trade Forex, FXCM is one of the better brokers around IMHO. But make sure to always do your OWN due diligence.
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With the FX market, there is NO central regulated Ask/Bid/ official rate.
Every broker can post to you whatever they want. You have no idea what's going on on their servers. You can buy the software to run your FX operation and widen the spread as you wish whenever you want.
Hypothetical (or not): think what it means having a broker that is your counter party: Since the account at FX brokers are NOT segregated (all in one pot) and not regulated/audited by the Gov., when someone lose, they are able to take a way the money and out from the pot. When u win and ask to withdraw profits, where is the money comes from? - the POT (other traders money).
BTW, same goes to binary options business model. (I know about some that created the software to run such operations)
The following 3 users say Thank You to IzhakHaim for this post:
True, but you are able to track what rates and spreads different parties are offering. ANYONE trading Forex should be keeping a regular eye on how their broker rates compared to a pool of other sources for your own piece of mind.
As I pointed out in my original reply, "bucket shops" often participate in this sort of actions. That does not automatically mean the EVERY Forex broker undertakes such activities. While you might not know what is going on DIRECTLY on the brokers servers, you certainly have the ability to track what multiple providers are doing at the same time and track any unusual widening of spreads on specific brokers that would indicate that they "may" be artificially widening spreads.
As far as FXCM, I've often noted that they have some of the tightest spreads when tracked live with other brokers back when I used them.
This is exactly what I was referencing with the "white label" reference and the link to that very software. But once again that does not then equate to EVERY Forex broker is guilty of running bucket shops and artificially widening spreads.
Guns exist and some places in the world, lots of people own one but that doesn't then mean each person will shot someone in cold blood.
The point is, yes these tools do exist but it doesn't mean that every Forex broker is using them to go after their clients money. The onus is on the client, especially in a industry like Forex to track and ensure for themselves that their broker is being honest and constantly hold them accountable by personally checking that you are getting what they say they are giving you. Just like there are tools for unscrupulous brokers to mess with the data, there are also tools for the client to track a wider data pool to ensure those games are not being played on you.
I've personally watched spreads on one broker be 12 pips more then on another at the same time. Yes there will be differences because of the decentralized nature of Forex but when you get a broker who consistently fluctuates to the high/wide side while other brokers are moving in near lock step, then you need to be watching carefully and starting to ask questions.
I think you are a little mixed up on how that would work even in the worst bucket shop if they wanted to maintain the operation for even a small amount of time they would have to ensure to have the operating capital to cover any short term client wins while they waited for the inevitable payoff that would come from the client blowing up their own account and loosing it all.
The whole idea of not sending to market is that there is (As an example) 80% chance that inexperienced traders will NOT win. Therefore, there is a 20% chance that they will. So, its FREE, LOW RISK money 80% of the time to take the other side of the trade. This is without any games, no spread widening - just the simple fact that inexperienced traders DO NOT win. A loss is a loss, regardless if its to the wider market or to the broker. In BOTH cases, the LOSS is debited from the clients account. That's what happens when you have a loosing trade. On the 20% of the time the inexperienced trader might win, the broker deposits the amount into your account. They would have no issue with this as they know that there is a 80% chance they will get it back sooner or later when the inexperienced trader losses on a future trade.
WHO the client is loosing money to makes no difference. The real issue at fault is that the client made a loosing trade. As long as the client keeps an eye on the bids/offers and spreads offered across a wider number of brokers and there is nothing out of line noticed with the clients broker bids/offer and spreads, then there is no one else to blame but the client themselves for making bad trades that loose.
As for taking the money from the clients account, if the client makes a bad trade and looses -
Client order - broker takes other side = Money taken from the client account, Broker gets the spread and the loss.
Client order - market takes other side = Money taken from the client account, Broker gets the spread and the market gets the loss.
The ONLY issue anyone needs to watch are manipulations of the spreads or market data. Without something like that happening, there is no real difference. Yes there is the RISK that a broker who takes the other side of your order MIGHT game the spreads or market data so at to run your stops BUT you are able to compare what is happening through other brokers and check if your broker is actually doing that.
Don't get me wrong, I FULLY understand your concern. I watched out for manipulations all the time and saw it happening with some brokers. But it doesn't mean that EVERY broker is guilty of doing it.
As for how customer funds are held by FXCM. This is a quote from their webpage. In my case being in Australia, I'm more then happy with the steps FXCM take with keeping my money separate and they paid out fine when I took it out. The only question I was asked was if I was taking it out due to some issue with their service (it wasn't). Then it was in my bank account within 2-3 days from memory.
Each country might have different regulations that must be complied with and you should check what those regulations are for your country and then check that any Forex broker you are looking at using complies with those. (Some will get around it by basing things offshore or some other loop hole. The onus is on the client to do due diligence.) https://www.forextrading.com.au/advantages/client-funds/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How are my funds secured with FXCM Australia?
In accordance with the Australian client money rules, FXCM Australia’s client funds are held in segregated bank accounts with an Australian authorized deposit-taking institution (Australian ADI), and held separately to FXCM Australia's corporate/operational funds accounts. This is a control which aims to protect customer funds to the fullest extent possible.
FXCM strictly follows the Australian Client Money Rules when making deposits into, withdrawals from or making payments out of the client money account. Client money received is paid into the segregated client money trust account on the day it is received or by the next business day it is received by FXCM. For withdrawals or payments, for example, payments may be made out of the client money account under your written directions or to pay off any obligations incurred by FXCM in connection with the transaction you have entered into.
Personally, I won't touch Binary options ever. As for Forex, I left trading it because it can't offer the WHOLE picture of the WHOLE market. This is just a simple fact that results from a decentralized market like Forex is. The more I learned about trading the more I noticed that the majority of systems, indicators are ALL lagging and relying of old data that has already happened long before we can make a decision from it. Even candle sticks of any type are all lagging indications of price as it shows what has already happened. These systems and methods of trading work on the chance that what happened in the past is likely to happen again in the future - its nothing more then a educated guess (EG - back-testing might demonstrate that on a 4hr chart, price will reject from a 30 SMA 72% of the time). Once I started reading up on volume and order flow it opened up a whole new dimension of data and information that is just not available in Forex.
Start adding in order flow on the DOM and instead of relying on % chance, you start seeing which are the 72% of the times that it will hold and cutting out the 28% of losses. It then moves from relying on guesses and chance to being a real business where you base your decision making on facts.
While I don't trade Forex actively anymore, I will say that FXCM has never done anything wrong by me as far as I can tell. They have been straight in everything I have checked, have consistently kept tight spreads when compared to other brokers. Its been some time since I've used them in any regular way but when I did, I had no complaint personally.
Its up to each and every person to do their own due diligence and to ensure standards are maintained when your using a service. Don't just assume, actually check. Especially with a industry like Forex because there ARE extremely bad operators in the mix.
Last edited by SilverFut; September 11th, 2016 at 09:14 PM.
The following 4 users say Thank You to SilverFut for this post:
I was helping my mom with her FXCM application. She went https://www.fxcm.com/open-account/ chose ninja trader and standard account. Completed all the information and submitted it. She gets an email trade station account is set up. So she goes to chat and they say have to sign up through ninjatrader directly.. But I hope this isn't the case..I'm burnt out with FXCM right now. Any FXCM support on here would be great!
Sorry for the frustration. It is true that going through NinjaTrader.com is hassle free however, I don't believe that it is required. Can you PM me your email address and contact information and I will have someone from our brokerage team follow up.
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I have forwarded you the email address and contact information. I'm use to interactive brokers, until they ceased trading Forex.. I do have some contract/fees question. But I'll wait till things are hopefully resolved.
The following user says Thank You to Magiklair for this post: