New to Bonds which one should I look at first. - Bonds and Interest Rates Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


New to Bonds which one should I look at first.
Updated: Views / Replies:2,123 / 9
Created: by gracepips Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you dont need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

New to Bonds which one should I look at first.

  #1 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Northern Ireland, UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader 7
Broker/Data: Optimus, MB Trading
Favorite Futures: 6E, CL & TF
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 76 given, 40 received

New to Bonds which one should I look at first.

Hi all, I'm just starting out on my futures journey after trading Spot Forx for a few years.

I am looking to build a portfolio of around 12 instruments that I watch daily on 3 - 5 range charts depending on their volatility. I'm a day trader. Mostly looking for simple pullbacks as trend continuations and looking for failed breakouts and tests at significantly higher time frames (60min) support and resistance. All this is based on looking for trapped traders and trying to place myself where their triggered stops overflow will carry my trade at least for a sclap. I just use price action and a greyed out 20 ema that's it. I try to look for smooth flowing charts. This has kept me away from the ES so far as recently I see a lot of chop although I know its very very popular with day traders.

So far I look at the 6 major FX Futures
CL
TF
YM
FDAX
NG

So I have one space left and would like to add a bond. As I starting point which bond should I be looking at that has good volatility and is suitable for day trading. Also since I might be looking for a 4-6 tick scalp I need a bond that has no more that a 1 tick spread. I realise that eventually I'll become more familiar with bonds and can make my own better informed decision but as this is my first exposure I'd be thankful for a point in the right direction.

Oh bye the way I'm from the UK and can comfortably trade the UK and US open.

Many thanks for the anticipated info and advice..........I'm eager to learn

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to gracepips for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,653 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,602 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Bonds are quite technical, much more than index futures.

You are competing with bond traders who understand forward rates and yield curves.

You should be aware of treasury auctions and there impact on market prices.

You should understand intermarket relationships, as the bond markets are often considered a safe heaven, when fear is spreading, you need to monitor

- the dollar index
- the main FOREX pairs

Also there is little price action compared to index futures or commodities like CL. Scalping bonds does not make sense to me unless you are want to catch the spread between the bid and the ask, but this would be a strange endeavour, as you compete with large players not paying retail commissions.

Maybe I am wrong here, and other comments are welcome.

The liquid bond - or treasury note - contracts are ZB, ZN (CME) and FGBL (Eurex).

Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #3 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Northern Ireland, UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader 7
Broker/Data: Optimus, MB Trading
Favorite Futures: 6E, CL & TF
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 76 given, 40 received



Fat Tails View Post
Bonds are quite technical, much more than index futures.

You are competing with bond traders who understand forward rates and yield curves.

You should be aware of treasury auctions and there impact on market prices.

You should understand intermarket relationships, as the bond markets are often considered a safe heaven, when fear is spreading, you need to monitor

- the dollar index
- the main FOREX pairs

Also there is little price action compared to index futures or commodities like CL. Scalping bonds does not make sense to me unless you are want to catch the spread between the bid and the ask, but this would be a strange endeavour, as you compete with large players not paying retail commissions.

Maybe I am wrong here, and other comments are welcome.

The liquid bond - or treasury note - contracts are ZB, ZN (CME) and FGBL (Eurex).

Thanks Fat Tails, This was the type of informed answer I was looking for since my current knowledge of bonds in next to zero. I'll ponder what you said, but with their being so many markets to choose from perhaps I'll look for a less technical instrument to compliment my simple trading styles need for smooth price action and good liquidity/volatility.

Would you have any suggestions, I'd appreciate your thoughts. One that I am considering is the DX .....Thanks again

Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,653 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,602 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


gracepips View Post
Thanks Fat Tails, This was the type of informed answer I was looking for since my current knowledge of bonds in next to zero. I'll ponder what you said, but with their being so many markets to choose from perhaps I'll look for a less technical instrument to compliment my simple trading styles need for smooth price action and good liquidity/volatility.

Would you have any suggestions, I'd appreciate your thoughts. One that I am considering is the DX .....Thanks again

There is a thread comparing instruments to trade here:

https://futures.io/elite-group-trading-methods/4861-comparing-index-futures.html

It started with index futures, but includes other instruments as well.

DX is not suited for scalping, as it is not liquid enough. If you want to find liquid futures contracts, just have a look at the daily volume. DX has about 25,000 contracts traded per day, which is not bad, but not enough for scalping. You could look at

6E: 320,000 contracts
6J: 140,000 contracts
6B: 120,000 contracts
6A : 100,000 contracts
GC: 150,000 contracts (Gold, CME-NYMEX)
BC: 180,000 contracts (Brent Crude, IPE)
ZC: 170,000 contracts (Corn, CME)

The numbers refer to the average daily volume over the last 50 days.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, California
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: IB, OEC, Optimus, DDT
Favorite Futures: ES, ZN
 
Posts: 221 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 513 given, 157 received

Would you consider grain markets? If you do, try ZS (soybeans), it has good daily range and volatility.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to omaha786 for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Northern Ireland, UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader 7
Broker/Data: Optimus, MB Trading
Favorite Futures: 6E, CL & TF
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 76 given, 40 received


Fat Tails View Post
There is a thread comparing instruments to trade here:

https://futures.io/elite-group-trading-methods/4861-comparing-index-futures.html

It started with index futures, but includes other instruments as well.

DX is not suited for scalping, as it is not liquid enough. If you want to find liquid futures contracts, just have a look at the daily volume. DX has about 25,000 contracts traded per day, which is not bad, but not enough for scalping. You could look at

6E: 320,000 contracts
6J: 140,000 contracts
6B: 120,000 contracts
6A : 100,000 contracts
GC: 150,000 contracts (Gold, CME-NYMEX)
BC: 180,000 contracts (Brent Crude, IPE)
ZC: 170,000 contracts (Corn, CME)

The numbers refer to the average daily volume over the last 50 days.

Wow this is a great help, I'm off now to read through the link you posted, yum yum Many thanks for taking the time to answer my basic questions,,,,,,,,,,,

Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
Salvador, Brazil
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Sierracharts CQG
Broker/Data: MF Global, TOS, Velocity
Favorite Futures: ZB
 
nostrabus's Avatar
 
Posts: 16 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 18 given, 8 received


gracepips View Post
Hi all, I'm just starting out on my futures journey after trading Spot Forx for a few years.

I am looking to build a portfolio of around 12 instruments that I watch daily on 3 - 5 range charts depending on their volatility. I'm a day trader. Mostly looking for simple pullbacks as trend continuations and looking for failed breakouts and tests at significantly higher time frames (60min) support and resistance. All this is based on looking for trapped traders and trying to place myself where their triggered stops overflow will carry my trade at least for a sclap. I just use price action and a greyed out 20 ema that's it. I try to look for smooth flowing charts. This has kept me away from the ES so far as recently I see a lot of chop although I know its very very popular with day traders.

So far I look at the 6 major FX Futures
CL
TF
YM
FDAX
NG

So I have one space left and would like to add a bond. As I starting point which bond should I be looking at that has good volatility and is suitable for day trading. Also since I might be looking for a 4-6 tick scalp I need a bond that has no more that a 1 tick spread. I realise that eventually I'll become more familiar with bonds and can make my own better informed decision but as this is my first exposure I'd be thankful for a point in the right direction.

Oh bye the way I'm from the UK and can comfortably trade the UK and US open.

Many thanks for the anticipated info and advice..........I'm eager to learn


From my experience it is not a good Idea to watch and trade to many markets, since they are all correlated there is not much argument for diversification

Since you are a Beginner, I would recommend maximum of 2 markets, and better trade more contracts in a market where you make money...

I trade for 12 years and I trade only 1 single market: ZB

best regards

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to nostrabus for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Northern Ireland, UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader 7
Broker/Data: Optimus, MB Trading
Favorite Futures: 6E, CL & TF
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 76 given, 40 received


nostrabus View Post
From my experience it is not a good Idea to watch and trade to many markets, since they are all correlated there is not much argument for diversification

Since you are a Beginner, I would recommend maximum of 2 markets, and better trade more contracts in a market where you make money...

I trade for 12 years and I trade only 1 single market: ZB

best regards

nostrabus, thanks for the advice and I think I may end up agreeing with you. I'm waiting for my Optimus account to fund from my UK bank and in the intervening weeks I've been demoing the 10-12 markets on 4 range bars and it is probably too difficult to watch them all. If anything I'm inclined to lose my focus scanning them all.

I think to begin with I may just look at the 6E and 6B for the UK open and maybe the YM or TF at the US open. One thing Mike said somewhere and it resonated with me was his liking for the CL as he knew each day would give him lots of opportunities and so kept him from over-trading as he knew there was a good possibility of a significant more and he could wait for the perfect set-up and not force the trade. Now before anyone gets worried, the CL is too much of a wild pony for me at this stage but I got his point.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to gracepips for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,653 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,602 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


nostrabus View Post
From my experience it is not a good Idea to watch and trade to many markets, since they are all correlated there is not much argument for diversification

Since you are a Beginner, I would recommend maximum of 2 markets, and better trade more contracts in a market where you make money...

I trade for 12 years and I trade only 1 single market: ZB

best regards

Very valuable advice.

Better know one market really well than being the Jack of all Trades.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.coroin.com 
Galveston ,TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: Zaner
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 386 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 364 given, 433 received


a few years ago i tried trading ZB and ZN on tick charts. this was before they changed something on the ZB (which i have since forgotten). i found that the action on the ZN was much more prone to fluctuate/run than ZB, which reminded me of watching paint dry.

my broker offered me much better commissions compared to the ES, which was a positive for the ZN. in addition, the tick-value for ZN is 15.625 (1 / 64) compared to the ES which is 12.50. so 3t on the ZN was 4t on the ES. that worked well for the scalping system i was trading at the time.

cheers,
-e

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to eman for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > New to Bonds which one should I look at first.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there a ticker for 30 year T bonds? Eg a continuous index for 30 year T bonds PositiveDeviant Bonds and Interest Rates Trading 2 June 28th, 2011 05:55 PM
Bad Time for Bonds? Not If You Know Where to Look Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 February 16th, 2011 12:20 PM
Corporate Bonds Looking to Break Through in New Year Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 December 31st, 2010 03:50 PM
Bonds and Rates Trading Subforum Big Mike Bonds and Interest Rates Trading 0 October 28th, 2010 01:03 AM
Why Stocks May Be Better Bet Right Now Than Gold, Bonds Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 October 25th, 2010 03:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.18 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.163.209.109