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Eurodollar Futures
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Eurodollar Futures

 
Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
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CSC1 View Post
It's always struck me how the more retail forums don't go into much depth on the STIR complex but it seems like everyone who claims to be a prop guy on twitter trades this stuff, maybe it's just too slow to be interesting for most.

I agree.

I wonder whether its because retail guys want to trade outrights with all their lines and indicators while prop guys trade a lot more spreads. The Interest rate complex is one massive puzzle with relationships connecting all the different contracts (as you pointed out in your Eurodollar-Fed Funds example) something most retail software can't handle.

The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
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SMCJB View Post
I agree.

I wonder whether its because retail guys want to trade outrights with all their lines and indicators while prop guys trade a lot more spreads. The Interest rate complex is one massive puzzle with relationships connecting all the different contracts (as you pointed out in your Eurodollar-Fed Funds example) something most retail software can't handle.

This sounds very interesting.

As for the software involved, if you understand the pieces of the puzzle, you could probably write a lightweight program to take in some data and emit some numbers back, may not have pretty charts but it would be a workaround that would allow you to make progress w/o relying/waiting on a vendor to get around to it. Just a thought.

I don't even know where to start learning this interest-rate space "puzzle" properly (I've had my hands full with /ES). Do you find any particular resources useful for first steps? I could ask this same question for the energy space as well, but one thing at a time.


Cheers!


Last edited by snax; March 29th, 2019 at 02:38 PM. Reason: just trying not to ramble.
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Elite Member
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snax View Post
This sounds very interesting.

As for the software involved, if you understand the pieces of the puzzle, you could probably write a lightweight program to take in some data and emit some numbers back, may not have pretty charts but it would be a workaround that would allow you to make progress w/o relying/waiting on a vendor to get around to it. Just a thought.

I don't even know where to start learning this interest-rate space "puzzle" properly (I've had my hands full with /ES). Do you find any particular resources useful for first steps? I could ask this same question for the energy space as well, but one thing at a time.


Cheers!



Have Google Alerts send you articles on whatever topic of interest. A free service.

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After reading those articles for a few months you will have learned a lot.

If you can afford https://www.tradethenews.com/ I recommend it... a great resource.

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Market Wizard
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snax View Post
As for the software involved, if you understand the pieces of the puzzle, you could probably write a lightweight program to take in some data and emit some numbers back, may not have pretty charts but it would be a workaround that would allow you to make progress w/o relying/waiting on a vendor to get around to it. Just a thought.

I was alluding to the fact that in software like Tradestation while you can put multiple data feeds into the same chart, and create an indicator showing you spread/ratio/whatever between the data you can't actually trade spreads, you literally would have to send orders in each of the individual contracts. Obviously this is not the case with every broker, InteractiveBrokers for example allow you to trade most exchange listed spreads. But prop shops aren't using either, they are using TT or something similar, which not only has access to exchange listed spreads but also allows you to create and trade your own synthetic spreads with an autospreader.


snax View Post
I don't even know where to start learning this interest-rate space "puzzle" properly (I've had my hands full with /ES). Do you find any particular resources useful for first steps? I could ask this same question for the energy space as well, but one thing at a time.

I've read a couple of books on Bond Math. I generally like this type of stuff, but Bond Math is pretty boring! As to books on tradable relationships in Fixed Income Futures, I have found none. This guy on youtube created some video's of what he was doing with spreads and butterflies, and the relationships between contracts on the curve. If you really have no experience at all it might be interesting but they are generally long, slow and I'm not sure they'll give you any tradable idea's.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjENzjqeEqfEQLFNH65dpvw

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Elite Member
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For a very basic understanding the CME website has some nice stuff on Eurodollars. Also worth checking out the free version of quikstrike you can get through CME. Some useful stuff on there that’s relevant to trading rates, the pace of roll and FedWatch tools are great. If you really want to peel back the hood on Eurodollars the book by Burghardt seems to be the go to.

The following user says Thank You to CSC1 for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
Chicago
 
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Favorite Futures: (April 18, 2019): /ESM9 - current expectancy = (12.0000 * 0.6875) - (8.00 * 0.3125) = 5.7500 ticks
 
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SMCJB View Post
I was alluding to the fact that in software like Tradestation while you can put multiple data feeds into the same chart, and create an indicator showing you spread/ratio/whatever between the data you can't actually trade spreads, you literally would have to send orders in each of the individual contracts. Obviously this is not the case with every broker, InteractiveBrokers for example allow you to trade most exchange listed spreads. But prop shops aren't using either, they are using TT or something similar, which not only has access to exchange listed spreads but also allows you to create and trade your own synthetic spreads with an autospreader.

I've read a couple of books on Bond Math. I generally like this type of stuff, but Bond Math is pretty boring! As to books on tradable relationships in Fixed Income Futures, I have found none. This guy on youtube created some video's of what he was doing with spreads and butterflies, and the relationships between contracts on the curve. If you really have no experience at all it might be interesting but they are generally long, slow and I'm not sure they'll give you any tradable idea's.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjENzjqeEqfEQLFNH65dpvw

Gotcha, that's neat! I think interest-rate products seem enticing to me because they may offer a different kind of behavior and opportunity in the future that might give a contrast/complement to the e-mini S&Ps I currently trade.

 
 
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Tastytrade has Frank Kaberna who is a trader of eurodollars.
https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows/futures-measures/episodes/the-hump-in-the-curve-03-27-2019

The following user says Thank You to platon for this post:
 
 
Market Wizard
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platon View Post

shame I can't ask him why he went z9z0z2 and not the more balance z9z0z1


 



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