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German Bund Traders
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German Bund Traders

  #21 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader, Jigsaw Trader
Broker/Data: Kenetic
Favorite Futures: Bonds ZN, ZB, ZF
 
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Posts: 24 since Jul 2013
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grahamg View Post
Why switch it up if its working eh? Tops to you for nailing the order flow. I started Jan also after spending December studying Johns webinars. Pretty similar timeline though I needed some extra help from a prop trader.

Where you at?

I live in Goldy too haha.

There's a variety of reasons. Most has to do with longevity. There doesn't seem to be that many out right traders any more in Propshops so I am a little concerned if Im going down the right path. Prop firms like Propex and Aliom for us Aussies train Spreaders too.

Im just going to do both for now and see what happens. But with the total lack of information out there about how to trade the yield curve and spread, its seems like its going to be hard. If there are any profitable Bill Spreaders out there that trade at a Prop Firm I am willing to pay you $200 to talk 20 minutes and skype.

Man i've become decent at reading orderflow and i was taught the right things by John Grady. Go to his website and buy his courses if you're struggling. He will put you on the right track. But then you need to sit at your screen for hours and hours like i did to become decent at it.

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Armidale, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Broker/Data: AMP Futures, IB
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joeyk View Post
I live in Goldy too haha.

Im just going to do both for now and see what happens. But with the total lack of information out there about how to trade the yield curve and spread, its seems like its going to be hard. If there are any profitable Bill Spreaders out there that trade at a Prop Firm I am willing to pay you $200 to talk 20 minutes and skype.

I have not read this but figured since I like the No BS way of things, perhaps its worth a look if wanting to get into spreads.

Day in the Life of a Bond Trader: New Ebook - A guide to Spread Trading Futures

The leap into freedom is the exchanging of risk for reward. This can be done only by shifting from tension to ease, and that can be done only when one perceives the reward and not the risk. That you won't win all the time has nothing to do with it - that's life, that's the [stock] market. The trying itself is freeing. And being free has its own reward - Justin Mamis, The Nature of Risk
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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore
 
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joeyk View Post
I can consistently read it decent now. Currently i am profitable 80% of the days. So i guess it works. I traded every day for 6-7 hours, journalled every day and also visualized every day. O I also screen record my trading sessions for review. I have a library of trades such as Momentum trades and Fade trades. I add to it. Seriously i don't think i could of become reading order flow that good if it wasn't for the training i put in, so you must do it.

I have been trading the bunds on jigsaw since feb as well. Went through 2 live webinars with grady this year. Still struggling but I'm able to read the flow somewhat. I trade about 4 hours a day, journal and video review my trades as well. What other work are you putting in? I am reading trade psyc books up the YingYang and watching every trading videos I can find.

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Mumbai, India
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, NT7,eSignal
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ZB,ZN,ES,currencies
 
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grahamg View Post
I have not read this but figured since I like the No BS way of things, perhaps its worth a look if wanting to get into spreads.

Day in the Life of a Bond Trader: New Ebook - A guide to Spread Trading Futures

I have bought this book by Rajen Kapadia ( cost just $4) and would say its a nice introductory book on trading the spreads intra-day. Most of spread trading materials focus on daily and weekly charts, however this book suggests some intra-day techniques and illustrates the technique with good examples. It focuses mainly on eurex bonds, euribor and energy spreads. I have currently subscribed for SpreadProfessor Pete Hamby's 6 months training in spread trading (for $7500, my biggest investment in trading education so far) but Pete focuses on long-term charts for spread trading.
In my live account, I am using volume profile and orderflow on DOM mainly to trade 10 year note and improving in DOM orderflow trading with time. I traded ZB to begin with but decided to switch to ZN since it has higher volume and moves in nice little trends of 8-10 ticks.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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I trade the bund am and the zn pm CET.
Not sure how you can transpose the es categorizations to the bund, will check. For now, personally I look for normal variation day.


grahamg View Post
I have been updating my Journal on day trading the Bund. Was about to go live next week but found out last night that I have a lot to learn. Was on a good run for a week averaging about 8-10 ticks a day with my limited trading skills. Though got wiped out yesterday.

John Grady from No BS Daytrading seems to advocate trading the Bund if you want to check out his site. He mainly trades US Treasuries but switches to the Bund / Bobl/ Schatz when more opportunity.

I still think despite yesterday, that there is a lot of potential for the Bund. Though I certainly needed a different strategy yesterday which was a strong down trend day. Going to pull it apart today and see how I should have played it.

But yes - lets talk about Bund! I trade it with Jigsaw. Am thinking we might be able to categorize days similar to the Jigsaw team for ES.

Day Trading Days
Strong Trend Days caused by larger time frame players
Nothing Days

So far I have seen about 6/10 good scalping days
3/10 slow as days
1 day strong trending

Anyone else have observations on this?


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  #26 (permalink)
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If by bid/ask analysis you dom/orderflow, Yes, Sir !


meow View Post
Anyone here trading/scalping Bund using bid/ask analysis?


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  #27 (permalink)
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Valencia/Spain
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
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indiantrader View Post
I have currently subscribed for SpreadProfessor Pete Hamby's 6 months training in spread trading (for $7500, my biggest investment in trading education so far) but Pete focuses on long-term charts for spread trading.

Hi,

Can you share your thoughts on this course? I am not ready to tackle spread trading yet (still working out the kinks in outrights, which I feel is the best place to do so) but its something that interests me in the medium term. 7.5k is a lot of money to pay someone over the internet, so I would like to see what you think. My desire is to learn about tradig the yield curve from a longer-timeframe perspective (holding period > 1 day)

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  #28 (permalink)
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corbeste View Post
Hi,

Can you share your thoughts on this course? I am not ready to tackle spread trading yet (still working out the kinks in outrights, which I feel is the best place to do so) but its something that interests me in the medium term. 7.5k is a lot of money to pay someone over the internet, so I would like to see what you think. My desire is to learn about tradig the yield curve from a longer-timeframe perspective (holding period > 1 day)

Hi
This course by Peter Hamby (SpreadProfessor) basically is about relative value trading. When you are trading the relative value between 2 well correlated instruments, you are immune to broader market movements. The spreads are known to trend well and the complex spreads like butterflys and condors reduce the volatility of the instruments eg CL to a range which is tradable with significantly reduced risk than an outright contract.
Peter sends written materials and some webinars after joining and then the client needs to build hundreds of spread combinations on esignal over initial month. After that, Peter provides paper trading instructions and client is expected to start papertrading. We include products traded on CME, ICE, NYSE Liffe as they have margin benefits with cross-exchange spreads eg. TF vs YM spread is offered margin benefits by both exchanges, CL calendar spread requires only $300 margin for a single lot but CL outright requires $3500.
Esignals is supposed to be one of the best platform for charting the spreads (CQG too) as its only $49 per month for the delayed data for any instrument in the world, so possibilities are essentially unlimited as to what products and combinations you could trade.
The CSIdata website has a correlation lab subscription for $100 per year which provides correlation studies for any instruments in the world and recommends suitable hedge ratio.
The system developed by Peter is simple enough to follow with definite rulesets and it is traded on daily and weekly charts and preferably on exchange-traded spreads.
One may use the intermarket relationship like lead-lag relation to trade one instrument based on movement of other closely related but leading instrument.e.g. 30 year and 10 year bonds.
Classically, spreads have been traded with mean-reversion techniques, but Peter recommends diversion technique for spreads that trend well.
Overall, this course helps one have a solid foundation of spread trading using esignal. One can develop then his own intra-day techniques once he is conversant with spreads and their behaviours.
I am in my 4 th month of training(still paper trading spreads) and feel that the cost of this course could have been a little less but overall the course was worth doing.
There is a book by Rajen Kapadia on the futures spread trading (cost $5) which is a good introduction for spreads and he has illustrated some good intraday techniques for spreads as well on eurex exchange.

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  #29 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston Texas
 
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time of day / night

you guys know if trading the Eurex at 12am Europe for a couple of hours would be feasible?

I am in Texas an have to leave for work around 6:30am. I would LOVE to trade ZN - it's what I've been following, just can't trade during the day. The only option seems to be another market either early in the morning (Bund) or later in the evening or night (ES). Any ideas appreciated.

Nick

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  #30 (permalink)
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Armidale, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: XT
Broker/Data: AMP Futures, IB
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@bobajob

Trade the 8am to 10.30am eurex session is best whatever hours that works out for you. John at No BS Day Trading just did a eurex webinar series in which he was trading in middle of the night from US. You might want to check his advice out on the matter... but he defo worked around the eurex morning session which is brutal but is what it is. I currently bite the bullet trading US morning TSYs which is 11pm-3am my time and it just takes a bit of routine and adjustment to get used to. More so if scheduling in a day job I gather but seriois traders do whatever hours it takes for the best opportunities from what I've witnessed this last year. Good luck.

The leap into freedom is the exchanging of risk for reward. This can be done only by shifting from tension to ease, and that can be done only when one perceives the reward and not the risk. That you won't win all the time has nothing to do with it - that's life, that's the [stock] market. The trying itself is freeing. And being free has its own reward - Justin Mamis, The Nature of Risk
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