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What should a beginner learn to trade first?
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What should a beginner learn to trade first?

  #81 (permalink)
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Hi Cloudy

I have no comment about OTA, that I do not know.

But, if no mistake, Sam Seiden is one of their teachers.
I think that Sam Seiden's free material (articles and videos) is worth having a look.

It is a correct introduction to supply and demand and analysis by zones rather than by entry through setup.
He identifies zones where there is a high probability to have lot of supply (resistance) or demand (support). Even if some details seem to be in the paying material, most of the (simple) methodology is explained in the free material.
And then the trader may sell when price comes back upwards to a supply zone and reverses downwards, or buy when price comes back downwards to a demand zone, and reverses upwards.
By definition, this is reversals trading (even if it could be with-trend at a larger timeframe).

I do not say that Sam Seiden's methods are profitable (I have no opinion about that). I just say that it could open the mind to other fields of price action. At least, it was the case for me.

Nicolas


Last edited by Nicolas11; June 12th, 2012 at 09:53 AM. Reason: correction of typo
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  #82 (permalink)
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What is it Really that you need to learn to trade well?

Most traders ask the wrong questions when trying to learn how to trade. They ask about the strategies, the setups, risk reward principles, and principles of market structure. While these things are important and necessary to be able to profit consistently from your trading efforts, these are not hard to learn. You could probably get a few books about trading and find that these topics will be covered at great length. Or, the trader helping you could just supply this information. While the trader who is embarking on learning about this business of trading may not really need to pay someone to tell them about these things, what they do need is much more difficult to teach and is not found in a book, or an educational course. Primarily you need experience.
First hand is best but takes the longest; and can come at great cost to you in time and money. What you can do is buy the experience of traders who have gone before you and have already come out the other side and are currently actively trading well. Most likely his/her experience has come at great cost in time and money to them. That is probably why they charge you money. However few traders are willing to really let you see what they do in real time. Mostly they supply you with the same type of information you could get for yourself by just researching the available public resources. Few allow you to look over their shoulder so you can learn from their correct actions, their mistakes, and continuing experience. Few allow you to watch their dom or chart trade markers in real time. Few will allow you to watch them be wrong.
But, how can you buy experience? Honestly, you can't. What can be done is to hang out with experienced traders and observe them as they do what they do. Many concepts are just theoretical ideas until you can see them applied in real time, and until you attempt to apply them yourself. I say attempt because there is a vast gap between knowing and doing. Most experienced traders learned principles and theories, and even procedures. I would wager money that when it came time for application of all their learned knowledge in the real time market with money on the line, that the difficulty of applying that knowledge became glaringly apparent, and probably cost a few accounts, thousands of hours, and a journey through frustration and heartache lane. That is the route I took, not that I wanted it. I look back now and understand what happened. Just like in trading, hindsight is always more certain.
If you are in the midst of trying to get a handle on this trading thing, then I offer you these concepts for your understanding in the hopes that it may help you decide what is the best course you may need to take. Learning to consistently and successfully apply trading concepts and principles takes years. Adequate funding and budgeting for loss is crucial. Experience comes at a high price. The willingness, and more importantly the ability, to be wrong at the best time is achieved gradually from your trading actions. Almost all of what you need to do to stop losing money is garnished from your trading journal and your statistics. Learning from the experience of others is no guarantee that you will avoid making the same mistakes. Hanging out with better traders can help to reduce the time and cost it takes to acquire your experience.
If you get the opportunity to watch experienced traders ply their craft day after day, good and bad, then what you will learn is that there are no secrets, no magic actions, no holy grails, no magic indicators or secret strategies. If someone is trying to sell you something secret, run away. They only secret is the one you have. If you tell me, then it is no longer a secret. Its an oxymoron that needs to be avoided at all costs.
By hanging out with good traders you will be able to observe theories and principles in action. This will open up an entirely new way of looking at the market and give you great opportunities to ask the right questions.

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  #83 (permalink)
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What's a good simulator to use?


Thanks for the sim advice, now which one please?


ThatManFromTexas View Post
If you can't make money in SIM you can't make money live.

If you make money in SIM it doesn't mean you can make money live.

Practice... you will have plenty of time later to lose money.


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  #84 (permalink)
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JustJoe View Post
Thanks for the sim advice, now which one please?

You can download NinjaTrader for free, then download replay data and use it for your training. You can also connect the free version to a datafeed and use the SIM account. The free version will not allow you to trade live, as you cannot connect it to a broker.

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  #85 (permalink)
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Im a Mac Man


Fat Tails View Post
You can download NinjaTrader for free, then download replay data and use it for your training. You can also connect the free version to a datafeed and use the SIM account. The free version will not allow you to trade live, as you cannot connect it to a broker.

Thanks Fat Tails for the advice unfortunately NinjaTrader does not have a Mac version. Sad thing is, after taking your advice and doing some reading I liked NinjaTrader. So now for the obvious question to the community, which software is best for Mac.

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  #86 (permalink)
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JustJoe View Post
Thanks Fat Tails for the advice unfortunately NinjaTrader does not have a Mac version. Sad thing is, after taking your advice and doing some reading I liked NinjaTrader. So now for the obvious question to the community, which software is best for Mac.


No serious trader would ever use a Mac. There is virtually no advanced trading software for MAC, and most of the broker software is not running on a Mac either.

Your only realistic options are either to buy a Windows PC, install Windows 7 on your Mac, or run a Windows emulation software on your Mac.

If you are not willing to do this, you are probably limited to Linnsoft Investor/RT, TOS (Think Or Swim) or Interactive Brokers, as their applications are Java based.

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  #87 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
No serious trader would ever use a Mac. There is virtually no advanced trading software for MAC, and most of the broker software is not running on a Mac either.

Your only realistic options are either to buy a Windows PC, install Windows 7 on your Mac, or run a Windows emulation software on your Mac.

If you are not willing to do this, you are probably limited to Linnsoft Investor/RT, TOS (Think Or Swim) or Interactive Brokers, as their applications are Java based.

I tried to become Mac head. But found windows to be much more productive especially for trading. Macs are over rated. Oh boy bet this post will stir up trouble.

Don't let Apple influence your trading decisions. Get the best setup for trading. Come over to the dark side sell your MAC. I did and built a desktop PC, got a laptop, an android tablet, and Android phone with cash left over.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."

Last edited by liquidcci; July 13th, 2012 at 08:09 PM.
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  #88 (permalink)
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The only real option for any Mac user is to run Windows under Mac using emulation, as Fat Tails pointed out.

But this seems to be rather off-topic for this thread.. ?

Mike

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  #89 (permalink)
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Like what has been mentioned, one could install Windows on their MAC using the dual boot install feature(i forget what it's called) that's included with the MAC OSX install disc.


ThinkOrSwim also works well on MAC osx and many versions of Linux, as they have java versions, web versions. And mobile versions for iphones, blackberry, android, etc.. Can trade/daytrade futures,forex (alternately forex by commission instead of spread), stocks, options, funds, bonds, options on some futures, pairs, etc anything offered through TDAmeritrade. Works exactly the same on Linux too. (I tried Ubuntu and Red Hat.) TOS has been greatly supported by TDAmeritrade and upgraded in the last year. I find myself enjoying it more and more.

https://mediaserver.thinkorswim.com/installer/install.html
https://www.thinkorswim.com/tos/displayPage.tos?webpage=iSwim&displayFormat=hide&tab=pocketPC

latest TOS info at TDAmeritrade:
https://www.tdameritrade.com/tradingtools/thinkorswim.html

haha, iPad too
https://www.tdameritrade.com/tradingtools/ipadapp.html

Recent futures.io (formerly BMT) TOS discussion:
https://futures.io/thinkorswim/12329-thinkorswim-good-platform-futures-trading-6.html#post211594

Screen cap of TOS working on MAC OSX 10.6+ attached. Trading CL on 4 range. (after hours, so not showing volume, depth and timeofsales). bunch of "studies"/indicators included or script your own for bag of osci junkies

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Last edited by Cloudy; July 14th, 2012 at 12:13 PM.
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  #90 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Stay with your system!



Fat Tails View Post
No serious trader would ever use a Mac. There is virtually no advanced trading software for MAC, and most of the broker software is not running on a Mac either.

This is simply NO LONGER true!

If you are a Mac user - stay on that platform. No need to emulate any microsh... system.
There are many companies bringing their products in OSX versions - they work like a charm.

I am personally using Linnsofts Investor/RT with Interactive Brokers connected.
Charts of Investor/RT are being enhanced every month with great effect. Very reliable and
fast. There are possibilities to trade manually out of the charts in Investor/RT where the
execution is transmitted to IB directly - or you can half or fully automate trades in Investor/RT's
RTL language which is executing orders via API to IB.

If you do not want to invest monthly in a chart software you can use the free Metatrader which
is now available for Mac OSX too.

As a mechanical trader there is the possibility to trade on a laptop version for the control of
the trade... - the rest is done by the trades/stops previously fired to IB.

GFIs1

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