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What should a beginner learn to trade first?
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What should a beginner learn to trade first?

  #41 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
It means you open a new position with a stock (NFLX, BAC, C, AAPL etc etc etc) and hold it for several days before selling. You can find some stock scanners that show you stocks with recent volatility, and you can also analyze sectors and find over or under performers and look to long or short individual stocks within a sector. You can even trade ETF's and end up trading something like crude oil (USO), or even ES (SPY) if you want, but you are better able to control risk for smaller accounts because you don't have to buy as much as you do with 1 future contract.

Mike

Hmmm, if my goal is to learn how to day-trade using Price Action, how will this help me to "learn proven methods?" It seems this would be a completely different game.

Without trying to be argumentative, it seems to me that trading one contract at a time with relatively conservative stop losses will allow me to control my risk while providing the most learning opportunity.

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  #42 (permalink)
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dyross View Post
Hmmm, if my goal is to learn how to day-trade using Price Action, how will this help me to "learn proven methods?" It seems this would be a completely different game.

Without trying to be argumentative, it seems to me that trading one contract at a time with relatively conservative stop losses will allow me to control my risk while providing the most learning opportunity.

You can't use conservative stops to learn, and use non-conservative stops when you trade real time, you will essentially be trading a different method. You want to learn using the exact same trading method that you plan to trade real time, that includes stop management . The trick is in scaling, or share sizing. You trade the exact same setups with the exact same stop management etc., but with smaller number of contracts or shares while you are learning. You don't vary your stop placement to control risk, you vary the number of shares/contracts you trade, while keeping everything else exactly the same. That way, what you are learning, is what you will be trading live. When you go live, you just pile on the shares/contracts, so you will have bigger profits, bigger risk.

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  #43 (permalink)
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Monpere,

Could you to please give your opinion on good methods for adding contracts.

All I've been able to do comfortably is add when I see a TL formed or if there is some resistance at a key level that I think will break through.


I know it is a long topic, to narrow it down, I:
  • Don't like to risk more than 1.5% in SL
  • OR enter trades where the "profit targets" are less than 1.5 times SL
  • and try not to exit unless there is a clear brake down in the gains or it turns against me w/o being likely to hover above SL
I know how much your opinion is respected here so it would help with the stress of being new to this.
But singling out Monpere I'm not trying to diswade others.

Thanks.

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  #44 (permalink)
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whatnext View Post
Monpere,

Could you to please give your opinion on good methods for adding contracts.

All I've been able to do comfortably is add when I see a TL formed or if there is some resistance at a key level that I think will break through.

I know it is a long topic, to narrow it down, I:
  • Don't like to risk more than 1.5% in SL
  • OR enter trades where the "profit targets" are less than 1.5 times SL
  • and try not to exit unless there is a clear brake down in the gains or it turns against me w/o being likely to hover above SL
I know how much your opinion is respected here so it would help with the stress of being new to this.
But singling out Monpere I'm not trying to diswade others.

Thanks.

There are many great price action traders on the site, and hopefully they'll be able to give you some guidance. Myself, I'm not a price action trader, I am a mechanical scalper using indicators, fixed stops, fixed targets. I don't add to trades, as I am generally not in long enough in trades for that to matter. It terms of stop loss, I never trade anything with less then a 2:1 profit to loss ratio.

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  #45 (permalink)
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So those programs do work huh.

Thanks though boss.

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  #46 (permalink)
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whatnext View Post
So those programs do work huh.

Thanks though boss.

I don't trade an automated program. I trade manually, using a strict mechanical rule set, with no discretion.

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  #47 (permalink)
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great thread...

another great futures.io (formerly BMT) thread....

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  #48 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
You can't use conservative stops to learn, and use non-conservative stops when you trade real time, you will essentially be trading a different method. You want to learn using the exact same trading method that you plan to trade real time, that includes stop management . The trick is in scaling, or share sizing. You trade the exact same setups with the exact same stop management etc., but with smaller number of contracts or shares while you are learning. You don't vary your stop placement to control risk, you vary the number of shares/contracts you trade, while keeping everything else exactly the same. That way, what you are learning, is what you will be trading live. When you go live, you just pile on the shares/contracts, so you will have bigger profits, bigger risk.

This cannot be repeated enough! Alas, most do not trade that way...


Last edited by Lornz; May 19th, 2011 at 06:41 PM.
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  #49 (permalink)
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dyross View Post
Hmmm, if my goal is to learn how to day-trade using Price Action, how will this help me to "learn proven methods?" It seems this would be a completely different game.

Without trying to be argumentative, it seems to me that trading one contract at a time with relatively conservative stop losses will allow me to control my risk while providing the most learning opportunity.

I thought you said you only had 10k for this venture, you mentioned 25k but said that was too much. Maybe I am confusing you with someone else, sorry if this is true.

At 10k, a futures account trading 1 contract is unlikely to succeed, in my opinion. Even at 25k the odds are slim. You are much better off learning methodologies and trading psychology by trading real cash money (not sim) but on a scale you can afford, which at these levels rules out futures and instead I suggest looking at swinging equities or trading forex.

Mike

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  #50 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I thought you said you only had 10k for this venture, you mentioned 25k but said that was too much. Maybe I am confusing you with someone else, sorry if this is true.

At 10k, a futures account trading 1 contract is unlikely to succeed, in my opinion. Even at 25k the odds are slim. You are much better off learning methodologies and trading psychology by trading real cash money (not sim) but on a scale you can afford, which at these levels rules out futures and instead I suggest looking at swinging equities or trading forex.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thought aztrader got thru this far with a small amount.

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