What kind of work can I put in to earn a mentor?
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What kind of work can I put in to earn a mentor?

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Created July 1st 2019 by secondchance4now
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What kind of work can I put in to earn a mentor?

  #31 (permalink)
Holladay, Utah, USA
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Favorite Futures: NQ YM
sstheo's Avatar
Posts: 105 since Oct 2012

dextrade View Post
This is an excellent thread, very impressed with the quality of the responses and true wisdom of contributors.
I would like to pitch in, hopefully this helps:
1. Why do you want to trade? If money is the main goal, it may not work. Think of a surgeon or any other demanding profession. The passion for the process will help success.
2. Find a community (futures.io ) , Convergent Trading is also excellent and part of the no bs 1 percent, where you can help yourself cut through the bullshit which is 99 percent of resources out there on youtube, the net.
3. Setup a solid workstation with proper hardware, software, feeds. Adjust the layouts, work environment to your own psychology.
4. All of the indicators/approaches work and don't work, find setups and style that suits your personality, psychology.
5. Start trading in real environment sooner rather then later. Paper trading should be good for first few weeks, a month. to only setup your software hardware, etc. The moment you have skin in the game, everything changes.
In order NOT to blow your account and TO preserve capital - Start with Micros in solid markets that are NOT known to be manipulated and are liquid. (ES, NQ, etc.) - Setup solid daily/weekly loss limits and adhere religiously while you learn.

Enjoy the journey.

Great comments from @dextrade.

After 11 years of hit-and-miss, including trying several TopStep Combines, I was about to give up when MES capital offered a free evaluation. I did well and my interest and determination were reignited. MES later teamed up with OneUp. After two years and $ thousands later I have finally cracked the nut and am consistently profitable. I have a journal of my adventures HERE.

But the story doesn't end there. OneUp said they had a chat room for their funded traders. I desperately wanted to rub shoulders with others who had live accounts too. Even though they advertised one, OneUp finally admitted they didn't have a funded trader chat room. And so I offered to start one for them, and they accepted! They sent me their live traders and we started a Slack chat room. Once we had about 20 guys, the attorneys at OneUp and MES decided that having me represent them was not so good, and that they needed more control (and that I had become a competitor!). They stopped sending us the new guys and gals, but I had already experienced 30+ days of trading camaraderie and I loved it! I had an entire room full of mentors! These are people who had already somewhat proven themselves as traders - having made it through very tough evaluations. I now whole-heartedly recommend a chat room to anyone looking for like-minded individuals to bounce trading ideas off of. Just make sure they are considerate and (mostly) stay focused on the difficult task at hand - extracting ticks from the market. (I heard about one chat room where a couple guys were talking about waxing their chests. LOL)

I was definitely promoting the combine concept when a couple traders commented on my FIO journal about the new CME Micro E-minis, and after extensive review I decided to try them. I am now hooked, and have changed my tune on the combines for beginning traders. I think the combines are ONLY good for traders who already have a winning strategy. Everyone else who is not yet consistently profitable on a sim should NOT do a combine with any company at all, but should go this route: profitable sim for a full month THEN the new micro index futures on a small account. At 1/10 the firepower, it means (if you are careful) you can practice being profitable 10x longer before you blow out your account (and you will). Only after you grow your micro account to $5k+ should you consider the regular E-mini's.

Because of the lower risk, I think the Micros are now a vital tool for all beginning futures traders. I really wish the micros had come out over a decade ago; I might be in a very different place today. With the Emini contracts and a small $2000 account it was way too easy to hit a margin call, and there was no chance of scaling in and out. But at 1/10 the movement when you trade a micro contract, a $2000 micro account is like a $20k mini account!

I now have a new journal for the Micros. In an effort to help others, I am attempting to take a $1000 live Amp Futures account up to $5000 by earning about 1% per day using the Micro E-mini futures. Knowing the frustration we all go through, I guess I am trying to be a mentor by making this journal public. It is for ME mainly, to be publicly accountable, but I have gotten several genuine thank-you's, and I am really glad to be of service.

But simply by being here on FIO you have made great decision, and there are hundreds of traders much better than I am who can guide you. Just keep asking and reading their many great posts.

Success in your journey!


Last edited by sstheo; July 18th, 2019 at 09:19 AM.
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  #32 (permalink)
Madison, Wi
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader, Trade Navigator
Favorite Futures: CL,GC, HG
dbarno's Avatar
Posts: 78 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 148 given, 71 received

Have mentored about a dozen in trading. Everyone is different.

The ones who have gone down in flames think trading is 1% mental, 1% money management and the rest technical.

Most have a good idea of what they want to trade. First thing I do is work on the psychological side, have them read "Sedona Method". After that books on trading psychology. Know how to win and lose. Keep working on the mental side of trading. Big difference between sim and live trading. Add some kind of value to sim trading. This is a business, have a business plan for it.

Money management. Be very conservative. It's a long haul, expect a draw down.

Can't beat screen time on what your system of trading is. Keep track of what you do trading, have it marked on charts. Won't click overnite, give it time, patience.

A good mentor will help guide his student thru the shark infested waters of the trading world.

Once you get your head together, have good money management, you can trade just about anything.

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  #33 (permalink)
Los Angeles, CA /USA
Trading Experience: Master
Platform: Sierra, CQG, Gain, Transa
Favorite Futures: Crude Oil
CannonTrading's Avatar
Posts: 165 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 46 given, 132 received

secondchance4now View Post
No, I'm not going to outright ask for a mentor, that's presumptuous. I'm sure there's over a gazillion requests for a mentor. And I get why mentors don't want to take up every offer or why they don't advertise mentorship...it's just not worth it. It's a lot of time and energy spent on someone you know is going to make a lot of mistakes at first, is probably going to frustrate you, but you want it to pay off in the end.

So what kind of work should I put in? How can I show a mentor I'm worthy?

I've thought of posting my paper trades, because I sure as hell am not ready to trade futures with real money. And with each trade I'll post my thought process. If I do that enough times, will potential mentors out there give me a chance?

If that's not enough, what else should I do?

I've heard from some people I should just paper trade until I figure things out. Maybe, maybe that'll work, but it's better to learn from someone with experience.

Take care everyone.

I saw a lot of good comments and resources and to reiterate, be very careful of those who claim to be mentors and reach out to you. The bottom line is VERY FEW make it in the futures trading business. It is hard. Requires skills, risk capital, experience, continued "education" and much more. I am not a mentor and dont claim to be one but I did and still observe thousands of traders over the years.
I wrote a couple of articles on the topic ( https://www.cannontrading.com/community/newsletter/Survivor-day-trader-and-coffee-chart#one ) and I also publish a daily blog where I share tips/insight/resources etc.
you can see yesterday's blog as an example and sign up to receive it via email if you like. Hope it helps.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #34 (permalink)
Chicago + IL/USA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Stage5, IB, Tastyworks
Broker/Data: Gain Capital
Favorite Futures: CL/Currencies
Posts: 13 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 8 given, 20 received


Let me ask you a question: Why do you NEED a mentor? What are you expecting to gain from having one? Are you looking for someone to critique your trades? Are you looking for someone to help with mindset during winning streaks/drawdowns? There's a lot to cover and if you're looking for a mentor it would benefit you most if you know exactly what you're looking for.

I'll only tell you what I've found to be helpful. I'd say 99% of people don't follow this advice like I didn't in prior years, but it really helps one's trading performance the most. I'm talking about your beliefs. It's important because you don't trade the markets... you trade your beliefs on the markets. For example, I'm a go with the flow type and so it's important to me that I go with trends and momentum versus fading them. Trading performance can also be affected by spiritual and identity beliefs. I can go into that further, but my main point is you and every trader has emotions and even with a great system, you need to know how to put yourself into a useful mental state in order to flawlessly execute that system.
So let's say you ignore this advice and focus on the system you're trading only... what good is the trading system if your psychology won't let you trade it mistake free? Your performance curve is going to look way different than the backtested one, won't it?

If you're interested, what has worked for me is attending Peak Performance 101 from Van Tharp. Just check his website and go through the courses he offers. That has helped me tremendously. Additionally I've been doing the home course for the Sedona Method. I know these options don't sound appealing at all, but they are the most important.

Again if you have any questions, please let me know and good trading out there!

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  #35 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
Posts: 3 since Oct 2018
Thanks: 0 given, 3 received

This thread is becoming excuses to not trade live Ďyetí.
Sure, psychology is importantóbut you wonít figure that out until your live. Watching someone lose money isnít the same thing.
Just start trading at whatever scale youíre comfortable, and increase position size or security from there. I would avoid margin initially, and just get REAL experience. I know Ďmasterí paper traders/system developers that spent so much time building great hypothetical systems and never translated to real trading profits. Donít get stuck in paper world.

Mentor is absolutely useless. Trading is an individual skill, and a zero sum game.

That being said, if you want to clean my cars your welcome to

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  #36 (permalink)
Madisonville Kentucky United States
Posts: 6 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Some help

Iíve learned a lot from priceactiontradingsystem.com

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  #37 (permalink)
munich bavaria germany
Posts: 8 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 1 given, 15 received

Ok, first post ever here at Big Mikes', so I combine that with my introduction.

Been trading for about 10 years now and it took me 5 years all on my own to get on track. It clicked for me when I went from trading outrights to trading spreads, so keep in mind that there is more than just long/short, scalping or swing trading.

I understand that you ask for a mentor since I wish I had one back when I started, I also mentored a couple of people with mixed success.

Here is my take:

- 99% of new traders focus on the method, since this is how we are brought up. You watch another guy doing something, you memorize his actions and repeat them for yourself->success. That is NOT how it works in trading. The key to success is to set up a process that helps you sustain in terms of money and emotional capital, so you can stay in the game long enough to finally get it. If you do that, you will win in the end.

- when people talk about the amount of work that is required in trading, do you even know what they mean by it? None of my mentees did. When I "teach" people, my framework is "Trade->analyze trade->review trade after a week->categorize trades->create setup" Do you know how much work it is to do this 100 times? You will sit hours and hours. Are you prepared to do this?

- On the flipside I tell you what i want from a mentee: Of course I enjoy seeing other people succeed because of me, but I realized quickly that this wasn't enough for me. I want something in exchange, so it doesn't feel like I always just give and coach my own competition. So usually I look for people who can code so they help me automate some tasks or do research for me, which ultimately helps them as well.

- With regards to picking markets there are two approaches:
a) you have background experience, so you want to abuse that knowledge. You are a pharmacist who actually understands FDA documents and the benefit of a certain drug. Why would you trade S&P futures, trade biotech stocks. If you are an engineer, trade the market that is related to your field of expertise

b) you have no useful background experience, so you want to trade the market with the lowest barrier of entry, the lowest capital requirements and the lowest commissions, since you need more time to actually understand how a market works and what its driving forces are. At this very moment, your best bet are bitcoin futures that trade at various unregulated exchanges (NOT the CME contracts), since the contract size is so small (1-100$) that you can start with 100$ and still use money management and position scaling. Commissions are high but all paid on a % basis and all the charting and software is between 0-50$/month max.

- Always remember that the only way to win in this game is to inovate and do something, nobody else does or is able to learn. My first eureka moment was when I started trading very illiquid stocks on ex dividend date. Although everyone always touts to focus on the liquid major markets, that was the first time I doubled my account in a month.
Think about how much competition you face when you trade the ES or the ZN.
I ended up trading spreads because this way I can trade a market that is unique. I create these markets by chosing the components and the ratio so my competition is zero.

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  #38 (permalink)
Phoenix Arizona
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Global Zen Trader
Broker/Data: GFF Brokers
Favorite Futures: Crude CL
CrudeDude's Avatar
Posts: 86 since May 2019
Thanks: 13 given, 76 received

snax View Post
@CrudeDude what was it about this site that made it seem reasonable for someone wanting to learn about being a more intelligent trader?

Thank you for the reply, yes I am still focused 80% on being more ďintelligentĒ.

But I saw a sample video, and this guy has three trades set upís in total and said even the first two would be good enough.

Also his charts do not have all different types of indicators on them. Very simple, very straightforward and very easy to read. Nothing complicated, just set 3 easy set ups based on price movement and daily price range.

It sounds like exactly what Iím looking for but I was just wondering if anyone here had seen the guys work or heard about him?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #39 (permalink)
Phoenix Arizona
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Global Zen Trader
Broker/Data: GFF Brokers
Favorite Futures: Crude CL
CrudeDude's Avatar
Posts: 86 since May 2019
Thanks: 13 given, 76 received

Yes that is funny. Apparently the market price action is controlled by computers and not traders. And the richest people in the world did not want him revealing this truth to the public. So they stalked him for three years trying to stop him. But apparently he is the winner because he is still selling his videos online.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #40 (permalink)
Reno, Nevada
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB, CL
phantomtrader's Avatar
Posts: 299 since May 2011
Thanks: 64 given, 477 received

CrudeDude View Post
Yes that is funny. Apparently the market price action is controlled by computers and not traders. And the richest people in the world did not want him revealing this truth to the public. So they stalked him for three years trying to stop him. But apparently he is the winner because he is still selling his videos online.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Not sure I'd call him a winner. He's an anti-semitic nut case.

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