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Intraday spikes, trading the pull-back/reversal


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Intraday spikes, trading the pull-back/reversal

  #11 (permalink)
 
BenG's Avatar
 BenG 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 and MT4
Trading: Dax, ES, FX, Gold and Oil but what Bund and Bobl also.
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Ardubya View Post
I am currently sim-trading eminis - CL, ES, and NQ. Intraday/scalping, 1-5 minute candles.

I'm working on a strategy that involves watching for sudden big moves/spikes (up OR down) and wait till that move is over, then enter to catch a few ticks of the reversal/retracement. Big sudden intraday moves usually reverse themselves by almost 40-50% of the original spike. But obviously the REAL trick is, how to confirm (to the greatest certainty possible) that original move is definitely over and is reversing.

This is basically a "peaks & slams" strategy, riding the reversal/retracement.

So, any suggestions on a set of indicators that could confirm (to maximum degree possible) the reversal of that original sudden spike? The signal/confirmation can be based on indicators, OR chart patterns or candlestick patterns - whatever works best. And certainly volume would also be a factor.

Ardubya

Good set of indicators for this is from the Intentional trader. He uses most common ones such as RSI, MACD etc but with a good visual display. The other thing what will help is just knowing the market you're trading really well and more often then not you'll get a good understanding of the markets movement. I mainly trade Dax because it gives good reversals, and as others pointed out, you can anticipate momentum as well in the same way as its a reversal all the same. For the most part find something that works and get really good at it. No set of indicators are going to be perfect, for me they're just a visual aid to help me confirm what I'm already seeing. Hope that helps.

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  #12 (permalink)
 
JonnyBoy's Avatar
 JonnyBoy 
Montreal, Quebec
 
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Ardubya View Post
I am currently sim-trading eminis - CL, ES, and NQ. Intraday/scalping, 1-5 minute candles.

I'm working on a strategy that involves watching for sudden big moves/spikes (up OR down) and wait till that move is over, then enter to catch a few ticks of the reversal/retracement. Big sudden intraday moves usually reverse themselves by almost 40-50% of the original spike. But obviously the REAL trick is, how to confirm (to the greatest certainty possible) that original move is definitely over and is reversing.

This is basically a "peaks & slams" strategy, riding the reversal/retracement.

So, any suggestions on a set of indicators that could confirm (to maximum degree possible) the reversal of that original sudden spike? The signal/confirmation can be based on indicators, OR chart patterns or candlestick patterns - whatever works best. And certainly volume would also be a factor.

Ardubya

So in summary, you are fading 3 instruments after a potential bull/bear spike and (according to one of your later posts) are currently "right" about 50% of the time in SIM.

Fading the market can bring rich rewards, but it can also leave your account devastated. I won’t pass judgement on your efforts to go this route, but note it is an extremely difficult way to trade. A lot of new traders start out this way, including me. I am not sure why.

Like anything though it can be done, but you are currently trading in SIM which is next to useless. That was meant to sound harsh. There have been many threads on the transition from SIM to LIVE so we don’t need to discuss that here. Trading with real money in a real account will bring you significantly different results. If you are currently 50% “right”, why not trade a single contract in a LIVE account to see if you are still 50% “right”. If you are, you only need to eat the commissions until you get better at the whole fading thing.

Also, you should be concentrating on a single instrument. You don’t need to be nursing 3. This can come later, but getting good with 3 isn’t the same as getting great with 1.

As for the confirmation of reversal from a spike, there was nothing out there that really defined what I needed. I therefore wrote my own data series (not an indicator) that gave me said confirmation, but the tradeoff was knowing a few ticks later. It is good around 85% of the time, but I use this more for getting out of existing positions, although I do take reversals of course if the context fits.

If you really want to go this route of fading the market as your bread and butter trades, I wish you all the good fortune in doing so.

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  #13 (permalink)
Ardubya
La Crescenta, California / USA
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2018
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matthew28 View Post
You could try looking at order flow on a DOM or a footprint style chart. Look for heavy order flow when price breaks down say followed by flush through they large volume on the Bid where passive buyers are absorbing, followed by aggressive buying and enter. Or wait for that and price to push back up, then another attempt by the sellers to push down but when price reaches that buying level that people were selling in to heavily, there is a lack of selling and price moves up again.

You could try oscillators such as the MACD or RSI and look for divergence like price making a new swing low but the corresponding drop in the RSI doesn't make a new low so the divergence suggests the most recent down move has less strength behind it.

You could use a small time frame chart like a one minute with a volume histogram and look for volume spikes which you quite often see on stop run blowouts then look for the price action in the candlesticks to show that the move is over and the sellers have run out of steam.

Be careful about spending too much time trying to find the best combination of indicators. Investigate a few methods and when you find a methodology that makes logical sense to you as to why it should work then stick with that and try using it and giving it a fair attempt without changing things further. Accept that some trades will be losses (keep them small), and some days will not suit your methods and you might not trade, or again take a small loss and learn to stop early when it just isn't your day.
(And remember to take any advice you get on an internet forum with a pinch of salt until you validate it yourself)


Thanks Matthew,
Coupla quick questions,
Re: ".....with a volume histogram and look for volume spikes"
1. What would be a good Volume Histogram?
2. Is a Volume Histogram the same as a Volume Oscillator?
Ardubya

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  #14 (permalink)
Ardubya
La Crescenta, California / USA
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 3


BenG View Post
Good set of indicators for this is from the Intentional trader. He uses most common ones such as RSI, MACD etc but with a good visual display. The other thing what will help is just knowing the market you're trading really well and more often then not you'll get a good understanding of the markets movement. I mainly trade Dax because it gives good reversals, and as others pointed out, you can anticipate momentum as well in the same way as its a reversal all the same. For the most part find something that works and get really good at it. No set of indicators are going to be perfect, for me they're just a visual aid to help me confirm what I'm already seeing. Hope that helps.


Thanks BenG,
I've heard of the Intentional Trader before. I'll go check it out.
Thanks for the tip.
Ardubya

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  #15 (permalink)
 
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 matthew28 
United Kingdom
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Ardubya View Post
Thanks Matthew,
Coupla quick questions,
Re: ".....with a volume histogram and look for volume spikes"
1. What would be a good Volume Histogram?
2. Is a Volume Histogram the same as a Volume Oscillator?
Ardubya

To be clear I am just suggesting these in response to your questions, not endorsing any methodology.

1. Just a basic Volume indicator that probably every charting package has such as at the bottom of this chart:

This is the video on volume spikes that TraderTS mentions in his post (this version from YouTube):


2. For suggesting divergence such as the RSI indicator (like all indicators it all looks very clear after the event):

You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
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  #16 (permalink)
Ardubya
La Crescenta, California / USA
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 3


matthew28 View Post
To be clear I am just suggesting these in response to your questions, not endorsing any methodology.

1. Just a basic Volume indicator that probably every charting package has such as at the bottom of this chart:

This is the video on volume spikes that TraderTS mentions in his post (this version from YouTube):


2. For suggesting divergence such as the RSI indicator (like all indicators it all looks very clear after the event):



".....not endorsing any methodology" - Absolutely matthew28. Totally understood. I take every piece of information at face value. We're just a coupla guys down at the bar having a beer talking shop.
Lemme check out those links/videos. Thanks!
Ardubya

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Last Updated on August 2, 2018


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