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A new path for life
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A new path for life

  #1 (permalink)
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A new path for life

I just had my second baby 5 months ago and has been learning paper trade futures (all indexes) for over 2 months now. I see the potential of being free from my current 9-5 to have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends by becoming a day trader. But Iím still not sure if I can do this. I hope to get support from this forum.

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  #2 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Nelson, New Zealand
 
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new2trade

I am not sure where the thinking "have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends" comes from. Never going to happen so you can forget that thinking before you even start. Do you know what they call the wives of traders? "Trading widows" because they never see their husbands. Everyone seems to think they will put in a couple of hours a day and make a fortune. That they will be the exception. It simply does not work that way. It takes endless hours to do this as a professional and make a living at it. You need to do at least 2 hours of pre-market analysis every day before the open, you need to check what news is out today and when. You may wait hours for what you consider a good set up and even then it can be a loser. This can be crushing psychologically for a person.

If you think trading for a living is easy or quick you got it big time wrong. Many people say they are willing to do the hard yards required but they never do as it is exhausting hard endless and thankless work. You must be totally committed. Are you willing to put in at least 18 hours a day, every day and then do additional analysis or reading on the weekends. Trading is a lonely thing. It is just you and your charts. No phone calls, no playing with the dog. There are no do overs. You can put in a long hard day and have less money at the end of the day than when you started. Don't forget the other side is trying to kill you the whole time. You must be totally focused on one thing with no distractions. Trading is like being in the worst shark tank you can imagine. The psychological aspects are beyond most peoples comprehension. In trading you have to do what is psychologically backwards for a person. As a human your DNA tells you to avoid risk. In trading you must take on risk and your brain knows it. If a tiger is coming you avoid it and run right? In trading you must run to and jump in front of the tiger. The emotions or doubt about your trade begin when you when you start taking heat (the trade goes against you). About the time you exit with a loss it turns and you say to yourself I will stay in longer next time. Just setting up a bigger loss next time. The cycle is endless until your equity is gone. If you are impaired in any way you don't trade. If you are angry about something, don't trade. If you are sick, don't trade. If you are upset about something, don't trade. If you didn't get enough sleep, don't trade. You must always be at the top of your game to even think you have the slightest chance.

Maybe you want to hear nice things or have it sugar coated. What I just told you is sugar coated. Get the picture?


Last edited by ctnz; June 10th, 2018 at 04:50 AM.
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  #3 (permalink)
Daytradr
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I tend to disagree with ctnz. While reality certainly can be as he describes it, there are too many variables to just pretend it has to always be this way. I am certain there is quite a few profitable traders, also here on FIO, that donít spend all day in front of their screen. And if they do, itís often by choice and passion, not by necessity.

That being said, you are just starting out, new2trade.
So if anything, for several years you will have LESS time for family and everything else, be stressed a lot of times, worried that you might not make it or survive the learning curve. By the time you are in a position where trading could pay for your livelihood, your second child will probably be in school.

If you really want this, go for it. But be aware of the risks and stress this can put on you, your family and your marriage. So make sure your wife is on board with this and prepared for the fact that this might take 5 years to become consistent & profrable and that you will pay several thousand $ in tuition to the market in the meantime.

Lastly, as a father of two, risking your entire lifeĎs savings and the well-being of your family over this should be a no-go zone.

Good luck either way,
ST.

edit: I do appreciate you post @ctnz, and we most certainly agree on the main point. Itís HARD.

You can be better tomorrow than you are today.
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  #4 (permalink)
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Nelson, New Zealand
 
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Scalpingtrader

You may have said things better than me. But people starting out do think it is easy and takes little time which is never true.

I agree with you that after a time (usually a long time) you will understand things better and it will take less time per day. But everyone does think they will be the exception.

If I painted a bleak outlook that was on purpose and you are correct it is hard.

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  #5 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Listen to this interview "Trading for a Living with Nick Radge" over at Better System Trader. I think it gives some excellent advice.

In a nutshell, it says instead of quitting your job to become a full time trader, why not keep trading on the side, then instead of your life being dependent upon your trading profits (very stressful) your trading profits become the way to improve your life. (New Kitchen and Vacations are the examples I think he uses).

This is also a subject that has been discussed here at futures.io many times. I believe the largest thread is
https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/3649-primary-source-income-how-many-have-made.html
but there's also
https://futures.io/trading-reviews-vendors/7424-ten-thousand-education-still-not-profitable.html
and others

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  #6 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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new2trade View Post
I just had my second baby 5 months ago and has been learning paper trade futures (all indexes) for over 2 months now. I see the potential of being free from my current 9-5 to have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends by becoming a day trader. But Iím still not sure if I can do this. I hope to get support from this forum.

@new2trade, I hope you do well, and I encourage you in your quest. You will find support here.

But realistically, many make the attempt, and few are successful. Not to discourage you, but you should know this when you start.

By all means, as @SMCJB says, do not quit your regular job. It will take a good long time before you can expect to support yourself and your family by trading, and many never can. On the other hand, there are some who do. @michaelleemoore comes to mind, whose journey to independence has been chronicled here in his journal https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/38439-scalper-s-journey.html , and there are many others. The thing is, there are many more who are still trying, or who have dropped away -- the grim picture that could be painted is not the whole picture, but it is a part of it.

You may find it beneficial to take part in this forum more; one way is to set up your own trade journal and detail your trades (which is understood initially will be in SIM -- "paper trades"). The act of laying out your trades and the reasons for them has helped many traders to improve, and you will get honest and well-meaning feedback from others. You may also want to follow others' trade journals to see how they are doing it.

But ultimately, it will be up to you. I do wish you luck with it.

Bob.

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  #7 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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new2trade View Post
I just had my second baby 5 months ago and has been learning paper trade futures (all indexes) for over 2 months now. I see the potential of being free from my current 9-5 to have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends by becoming a day trader. But Iím still not sure if I can do this. I hope to get support from this forum.


Before you even think of trading full time, I recommend the following:

1. 2-3 years of real money profitability

2. 3-5 years of full living expenses saved up, SEPARATE from your trading account

3. Don't mix trading capital and living expenses - the pressure of withdrawing money every month to pay for diapers will weight on you

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #8 (permalink)
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ctnz View Post
new2trade

I am not sure where the thinking "have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends" comes from. Never going to happen so you can forget that thinking before you even start. Do you know what they call the wives of traders? "Trading widows" because they never see their husbands. Everyone seems to think they will put in a couple of hours a day and make a fortune. That they will be the exception. It simply does not work that way. It takes endless hours to do this as a professional and make a living at it. You need to do at least 2 hours of pre-market analysis every day before the open, you need to check what news is out today and when. You may wait hours for what you consider a good set up and even then it can be a loser. This can be crushing psychologically for a person.

If you think trading for a living is easy or quick you got it big time wrong. Many people say they are willing to do the hard yards required but they never do as it is exhausting hard endless and thankless work. You must be totally committed. Are you willing to put in at least 18 hours a day, every day and then do additional analysis or reading on the weekends. Trading is a lonely thing. It is just you and your charts. No phone calls, no playing with the dog. There are no do overs. You can put in a long hard day and have less money at the end of the day than when you started. Don't forget the other side is trying to kill you the whole time. You must be totally focused on one thing with no distractions. Trading is like being in the worst shark tank you can imagine. The psychological aspects are beyond most peoples comprehension. In trading you have to do what is psychologically backwards for a person. As a human your DNA tells you to avoid risk. In trading you must take on risk and your brain knows it. If a tiger is coming you avoid it and run right? In trading you must run to and jump in front of the tiger. The emotions or doubt about your trade begin when you when you start taking heat (the trade goes against you). About the time you exit with a loss it turns and you say to yourself I will stay in longer next time. Just setting up a bigger loss next time. The cycle is endless until your equity is gone. If you are impaired in any way you don't trade. If you are angry about something, don't trade. If you are sick, don't trade. If you are upset about something, don't trade. If you didn't get enough sleep, don't trade. You must always be at the top of your game to even think you have the slightest chance.

Maybe you want to hear nice things or have it sugar coated. What I just told you is sugar coated. Get the picture?



Ctnz

Thank you for the reality check! This is not the first time I read some warnings like this. Thatís why I mentioned Iím not sure if I can do this because the unknown challenges are terrifying. I have already experienced the psychological aspect of it. I just recently realized they are all part of the job and thatís why I found this forum. Acknowledge that you have your triggers and learn to recognize them as you trade, then build that into your core training is part of the learning curve, right?

The reason I think I found it has potential is that I am in a trading room where I found their program makes senses, and I just need to incorporate that into my own strategy and discipline. Of course 2 months are not enough to tell so Iím still paper trading until I can prove that I can make profit myself, by learning to conquer the psychological aspects. I know most successful traders would suggest to go my own path and not use anyoneís strategy, but as Iím new and need something to lean on to get started. Until I can prove that what Iíve been doing is not working, I will reconsider the whole thing.

Thanks again for your input!

Btw, Iím the mom

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  #9 (permalink)
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Scalpingtrader View Post
I tend to disagree with ctnz. While reality certainly can be as he describes it, there are too many variables to just pretend it has to always be this way. I am certain there is quite a few profitable traders, also here on FIO, that donít spend all day in front of their screen. And if they do, itís often by choice and passion, not by necessity.



That being said, you are just starting out, new2trade.

So if anything, for several years you will have LESS time for family and everything else, be stressed a lot of times, worried that you might not make it or survive the learning curve. By the time you are in a position where trading could pay for your livelihood, your second child will probably be in school.



If you really want this, go for it. But be aware of the risks and stress this can put on you, your family and your marriage. So make sure your wife is on board with this and prepared for the fact that this might take 5 years to become consistent & profrable and that you will pay several thousand $ in tuition to the market in the meantime.



Lastly, as a father of two, risking your entire lifeĎs savings and the well-being of your family over this should be a no-go zone.




Scalpingtrader

Really appreciate your advice and kind words! I frequently talk to my husband (Iím the mom) about this decision to make sure heís on board. The reality is that like you said itís HARD, much harder than I initially expected. Weíve been both working in a full time job and conservative in our spending so now weíre in the position where I can step back and being at home if I choose to do so. However, my goal is still be able to contribute financially, but looks like I wonít be able to start doing it anytime soon. Iím still not sure this would be a wise decision to go with this trading path, but Iím not looking for making a fortune trading. Iíll keep in mind the time frame 5 years you mentioned. Iím still paper trade and wonít open an account until I can see myself making profit for 3 months.

Thanks again!

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  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Conway
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES, NQ, YM
 
Posts: 18 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 36 given, 25 received



SMCJB View Post
Listen to this interview "Trading for a Living with Nick Radge" over at Better System Trader. I think it gives some excellent advice.



In a nutshell, it says instead of quitting your job to become a full time trader, why not keep trading on the side, then instead of your life being dependent upon your trading profits (very stressful) your trading profits become the way to improve your life. (New Kitchen and Vacations are the examples I think he uses).



This is also a subject that has been discussed here at futures.io many times. I believe the largest thread is

https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/3649-primary-source-income-how-many-have-made.html

but there's also

https://futures.io/trading-reviews-vendors/7424-ten-thousand-education-still-not-profitable.html

and others



SMCJB

Thanks so much for sending me exactly what I need to read! Love your advice. Much appreciated!


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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