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A new path for life


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A new path for life

  #21 (permalink)
new2trade
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kevinkdog View Post
That is certainly part of it, but there are many other reasons.

You'd be amazed how many times when paper trading you'll take a trade, it will lose, and you'll tell yourself "oh I would not have taken that trade because of XXXX" - some outside reason that all of a sudden becomes a rule for you to follow.

An example: Once an S&P put option seller, when confronted with the fact that his approach would have bankrupted him in 2008, said "well of course I would not have been selling options at that time. It was obvious the market was going down." Really?

Interesting that I've told myself something similar several times and know it was dangerous to not treat the sim account as the real account. I highlighted those trades that I know I would never have done with real cash and set them as a goal for correction if I encounter the situation again. Sometimes it is so hard to recognize whether your execution/ strategy was off or because I was just unlucky, because you can always make up a reason why the trade was failed. It's a hard pill to swallow in this business.

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  #22 (permalink)
 blb014 
Dallas, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
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kevinkdog View Post
That is certainly part of it, but there are many other reasons.

You'd be amazed how many times when paper trading you'll take a trade, it will lose, and you'll tell yourself "oh I would not have taken that trade because of XXXX" - some outside reason that all of a sudden becomes a rule for you to follow.

An example: Once an S&P put option seller, when confronted with the fact that his approach would have bankrupted him in 2008, said "well of course I would not have been selling options at that time. It was obvious the market was going down." Really?

I could give many other reasons why paper trading is misleading/inaccurate. So be VERY careful if you actually do it.

I agree Kevin, It took me also four years to break even on some positions I held during the financial crisis.

What's really funny is if Ron99 was such a fortune teller, why didn't he just buy some VIX puts before Lehman Brothers fell? He would have been a multi-millionaire

For me, the school of hard knocks has been the best way to learn how to profitable trade options. I have learned to not let fear control my trading. The most profitable trade I have done this year has been my FB puts during the analytica scandal. Those type of opportunities do not come around often on such a fundamental strong company as FB

I will say this, Ninja Trader fills on /ES sim is pretty darn close to actual fills. I was actually really surprised, much better than TOS fills on /ES

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #23 (permalink)
 blb014 
Dallas, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
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bobwest View Post
I have heard that women are more willing to admit when they are wrong, and to act accordingly to change their position -- something to do with ego (men's), I believe.

Good luck. We will be rooting for you.

Bob.

Especially computer programmers, really smart but can not handle being wrong!

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #24 (permalink)
 blb014 
Dallas, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
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new2trade View Post
Interesting that I've told myself something similar several times and know it was dangerous to not treat the sim account as the real account. I highlighted those trades that I know I would never have done with real cash and set them as a goal for correction if I encounter the situation again. Sometimes it is so hard to recognize whether your execution/ strategy was off or because I was just unlucky, because you can always make up a reason why the trade was failed. It's a hard pill to swallow in this business.

Thanks!

Start off by making some longer term trades or investments, hit some singles first. Nothing flashy or 1000% ROI but I guarantee you will be more profitable than trying to day-trade/ES

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #25 (permalink)
new2trade
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tpredictor View Post
There are many reasons that paper trading is difficult to translate into real money results. The primary reason though is that most paper trading simulations involve larger amounts of capital then most traders actually start with. As a discretionary trader, there is a significant difference in risking 3% per day on a hypothetical 50k account and risking 10%-15% per day on the type of small accounts that most traders are likely to start with .

You’re absolutely right in this. I’m still trying to determine the risk level that I’m comfortable with, given my budget to open the account is only $5000. I certainly do not plan to blow out the account so I’ll need to make sure I train enough to increase the probability of win rate before going live.


Your in-depth response is very comprehensive and valuable. Thank you for spending the time to share your thoughts! I’m currently joining a trading room and using their strategy to trade, at the same time trying to learn to read the market and define my own style, such as risk tolerance and whatnot. Interesting about the 2% of luck as I thought this % would be higher, otherwise you can get to the success rate of 98% given you can master the other controllable factors. It definitely sounds manageable though.

Thanks again, tpredictor!



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  #26 (permalink)
new2trade
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MiniP View Post
@new2trade



I'm in a very similar position , what i would suggest is that you find a job that you can trade from maybe 1-2 hours a day maybe the open/close and go from there. Get the routine down know the markets and once you have 2+ years of income saved up then look at it. Maybe start taking live trades in 6 months on a 5k account or something small to get your feet wet and that will let you get in the groove of things and not have to worry about feeding your family off this account.



Everything these guys said is correct!



Best of luck



-P


That’s what I have in mind too! Thanks for the input. Is it what you’re doing and how long have you been doing this?

Keep in touch! I’d love to heard about your progress from time to time. Thanks again!

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  #27 (permalink)
 
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 MiniP 
USA,USA
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new2trade View Post
That’s what I have in mind too! Thanks for the input. Is it what you’re doing and how long have you been doing this?

Keep in touch! I’d love to heard about your progress from time to time. Thanks again!

I started trading fx and stocks about 5 years ago but never really took them serious did it more for a get rich quick thing. Then i got a good job and it took a seat on the back burner but I still trader FX. The hours killed me as I would wake up at 2 am to trade the London session. I finally decided to stop as I was constantly break even and wasn't happy so about 8 months to a year ago I started to really take this serious and try to pursue full time eventually. Always wanted to trade full time but was never able to find what I wanted to trade.

So long story short I'm in save mode right now and not in a rush to get back into the game its not going any where. I trade P/A take a look at my journal normally update it every day!

-P

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  #28 (permalink)
new2trade
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MiniP View Post
Always wanted to trade full time but was never able to find what I wanted to trade.

So long story short I'm in save mode right now and not in a rush to get back into the game its not going any where. I trade P/A take a look at my journal normally update it every day!

-P

I'm trading all the Emini Indexes and I using the method from the trading room where they look at the relationship between markets and the support and resistant levels defined by their program. I like their program but I also customize it to fit to my own risk tolerance. The area that I have many problems with is the psychological aspect that heavily impacts my decision on when to enter a trade. I think if I can get it down then I can make profit consistently. Time will tell, but I don't have much time left though. I have a good paid job (but very stressful and long hours) that I need to decide whether I want to go back in less than a month or so. Oh how much I want this to work out but I may need to do what you're doing and not making a rush decision.

Best of luck to you as well.

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  #29 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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new2trade View Post
I'm trading all the Emini Indexes and I using the method from the trading room where they look at the relationship between markets and the support and resistant levels defined by their program. I like their program but I also customize it to fit to my own risk tolerance. The area that I have many problems with is the psychological aspect that heavily impacts my decision on when to enter a trade. I think if I can get it down then I can make profit consistently. Time will tell, but I don't have much time left though. I have a good paid job (but very stressful and long hours) that I need to decide whether I want to go back in less than a month or so. Oh how much I want this to work out but I may need to do what you're doing and not making a rush decision.

Best of luck to you as well.

Go back to work. Don't throw away a good paying job before you even know if you can succeed in trading.

Took me 5-10 years of part time trading before I even contemplated trading full time...

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  #30 (permalink)
 
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 xplorer 
London UK
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new2trade View Post
I just had my second baby 5 months ago and has been learning paper trade futures (all indexes) for over 2 months now. I see the potential of being free from my current 9-5 to have more time and energy to spend with my family and friends by becoming a day trader. But I’m still not sure if I can do this. I hope to get support from this forum.

Hi

So much thoughtful advice coming from experience has been provided already in this thread that it sounds redundant to pen another. But I'm going to do it for two reasons:

1) The first is about the bit in your quote above I have placed in bold. It is my belief that to even have a fighting chance to make it in this game one has to have a degree of conviction way beyond that of most people. It's a whatever-it-takes, failure-not-an-option, type of conviction. Anything short of that and the probabilities of success are greatly diminished.

2) I don't have kids, so I am unable to talk from personal experience, but from what I have seen around me, kids will always come first, above anything else: their needs, their priorities, their expenses (that has an impact too). It's the rules and we all understand this is the way it's supposed to be.

One of the several things that trading has taught me is that a mindset fine-tuned for trading takes considerably longer than anticipated, even when being conservative. So, like others have pointed out, your assumption of saving time may turn out to be optimistic to say the least.



I find FIO an incredibly helpful resource to turn to for support and for great content, and lots of people help each other, but it is very important that people have clear expectations from the start about this endeavour.


In any case, good luck!

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Last Updated on June 13, 2018


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