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The cost of getting started scalping futures


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The cost of getting started scalping futures

  #31 (permalink)
 
xplorer's Avatar
 xplorer 
London UK
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG
Broker: S5
Trading: Futures
Frequency: Never
Duration: Never
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Rupkali View Post
Thanks for your reply xplorer. Apologies but new to this.

May I ask what your set up is then in terms of futures platform, charting & tools, and feed whereby you use where you pay $15 a month?

Not at all Rupkali - I wasn't having a go at you. I am just puzzled that some people are being quoted considerably higher prices than what I pay - that's all...

So, my set up...........

Primary trading/execution platform: CQG QTrader
Secondary platform (mainly used for charting and Jigsaw): NinjaTrader
Add-ons: just Jigsaw
Data feeds: CQG for QTrader / Continuum (which is another name for CQG) for NinjaTrader

So in reality I pay 15 USD twice for CME fees, but that's my choice. People using only one platform (e.g. NT) don't need to.

Hope it helps.

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  #32 (permalink)
 Rupkali 
Hampshire, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate/Jigsaw
Trading: ES
Posts: 10 since Apr 2015
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Xplorer thank you very much for your reply - $30 a month or $15 month regards fixed costs is very palatable.

I am going to look into your set up starting with Ninjatrader.

cheers.

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  #33 (permalink)
 
rintin2x's Avatar
 rintin2x 
salt lake utah
 
Experience: Beginner
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What I have:
CME bundle $15/month: CME, CBOT, NYMEX, & COMEX, or buy individually for $5 ea/month.

For example: free platform + $5/month (just one market)+ $$$ losing + execution fee plus minus $5 RT

That's good price IMHO.

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  #34 (permalink)
 Rupkali 
Hampshire, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate/Jigsaw
Trading: ES
Posts: 10 since Apr 2015
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Thanks very much for your reply rintin2x.

I have now explored NinjaTrader.

For the moment I will just use on sim until I get use to the platform and some of the new tools - DOM - and to get live data for currency futures appears to be $7 per month. Then I can add Jigsaw as a plug in.

cheers.

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  #35 (permalink)
 
rintin2x's Avatar
 rintin2x 
salt lake utah
 
Experience: Beginner
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Rupkali,

Not sure if you're aware of NT platform version types. You can't see your position in the chart in free version, the lease is about $60/month if you want to show your trades there. If you open your brokerage w/ them w/ the free version it's about plus minus $.5 more than the lease version for the execution fee RT.

As for jigsaw, if you don't care about charting and decided jigsaw is for you, maybe something to think about is getting direct execution subscription from jigsaw itself (than going back and forward from jigsaw to regular dom), which is cheaper than monthly NT monthly lease. And of course where you open your account matters too (check jigsaw on this) but that's another discussion.

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  #36 (permalink)
 
matthew28's Avatar
 matthew28 
United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Bookmap
Broker: Stage 5, Rithmic
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
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Rupkali View Post
I did wonder whether or not I could access these kinds of Futures information yet still trade from my spot Forex trading platform. Assuming that 6E Eurodollar moves as Eurusd Forex.

I have heard this quite often recommended for people starting out just because the trade risk of a forex trade can be so much lower. With the 6E future the minimum price movement is $6.25 a tick. (I don't know why the minimum movement in forex is in Pips, but in futures it is in Ticks). Also futures have only recently added the fifth decimal place to some currencies. In the 6E a move from 1.00010 to 1.00020 is two ticks so a tick is 0.00005. If I remember correctly the forex market could trade any of the ten 0.00001 increments inbetween the 4th decimal place levels.

Because of modern computerised trading related instruments all tend to stay very much in line with each other so the 6E and the EURUSD will very closely match each other pretty much to the tick. So a tick chart or graph overlayed should look the same. But you will notice that the scale or price will be slightly different. (I think this is something to do with cost of carry and expiration of contracts and rollover but it is another thing I am vague about).
If you were watching futures traded volume and orderflow for instance it would be easy to see a signal you like on the futures contract and immediately enter in the spot market, but if wanting to place pending limit orders or stops at other levels you wouldn't just take the entry price off a futures chart and use the same price for your spot market order with out adjusting for the offset in price. As mentioned earlier the price offset will basically be the same all day, but it will change a little day by day as the current front month, or most heavily traded contract; gets closer to expiration and rollover.

Just a couple of thoughts on the practicalities of mixing spot and futures currencies.

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  #37 (permalink)
 Rupkali 
Hampshire, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate/Jigsaw
Trading: ES
Posts: 10 since Apr 2015
Thanks Given: 7
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Hi matthew28 & rintin2x

Thank you for your continued help.

Ideally what I want to do is trade from my spot Forex platform but have Jigsaw for the DOM, cumulative delta tools.

A significant advantage is that in the UK Forex can be traded via spread betting platforms and profits are tax free.

I understand I can get the stand alone Jigsaw Rapid Trader Pro and therefore Jig Rapid Trader Pro + my Forex platform is the ideal combination.

The challenge - what would be the most economical way to get the data feed for Jigsaw Rapid Trader Pro?

My limited understanding of Futures (futures currency) is that I have to have a brokerage account in order to get the discounted data feed for CME currencies Futures.

Thanks again for your time and help. cheers, rupkali.

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  #38 (permalink)
 
rintin2x's Avatar
 rintin2x 
salt lake utah
 
Experience: Beginner
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Peter probably is the most qualified person to answer that

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  #39 (permalink)
 
johny1971's Avatar
 johny1971 
Omaha, NE/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader; Jigsaw; TOS
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ZN
Posts: 110 since Sep 2016
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@TraderTom

So far, I am trading via price action - though still in sim.

I set things up through Stage 5 Trading. Everything was taken care of. I have a brokerage account, data, and basic charting software. I only pay $5 for data for CME. If I need to later I can expand to other platforms - Multicharts, Sierra, or Investor RT to name a few. Going with the guys at Stage 5 made things a breeze. I had one longer initial call where all my concerns were addressed. There is zero pressure from these guys.

Also, I get an active community with Stage 5, which has proven advantageous in keeping me focused and being more professional so I am treating my trading like a business.

Also, the Stage 5 platform (S5 Trader) supports Jigsaw - no problems there either.

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  #40 (permalink)
 
matthew28's Avatar
 matthew28 
United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Bookmap
Broker: Stage 5, Rithmic
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
Posts: 1,250 since Sep 2013
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Rupkali View Post
I understand I can get the stand alone Jigsaw Rapid Trader Pro and therefore Jig Rapid Trader Pro + my Forex platform is the ideal combination.

The challenge - what would be the most economical way to get the data feed for Jigsaw Rapid Trader Pro?

My limited understanding of Futures (futures currency) is that I have to have a brokerage account in order to get the discounted data feed for CME currencies Futures.

Yes you would need a live futures account to get the cheap data, such as Stage5 recommended by Johny above.

Double check this with Pete if you want ( ), but the other option is you pay a data provider just for the data to run Jigsaw as you say. There are two options I am aware of for that:

1. DTN IQ Feed data to run Rapid Trader Pro. ( Welcome to DTN IQFeed! - Fast, Reliable, Affordable. Market Data and API's. ).
2. Kinetick data to run Ninjatrader with the Jigsaw plugin. The Ninjatrader platform is free to use if you do not trade through it. The data is the same because Ninjatrader bought DTN IQ Feed, but then also produced a cheaper version, called Kinetick, as an option just for their customers. (https://kinetick.com/Subscribe ).

Doing a quick add up of fees though you are looking at about $200/month for DTN and $150 for Kinetick. Those sort of monthly fees soon get expensive if you are only making small amounts on forex.

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