Starting to Trade and Getting Education - Beginners and Introductions | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Notices

Starting to Trade and Getting Education
Updated: Views / Replies:7,092 / 56
Created: by johny1971 Attachments:8

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 8  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Starting to Trade and Getting Education

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Omaha, NE/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader; Jigsaw; TOS
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
johny1971's Avatar
 
Posts: 101 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 205 given, 81 received

@matthew28

Till now, I have only thought about screen recorders and hearing about BB Flashback Express seems to be a great step in the right direction. Even if I were to upgrade it would still be very affordable.

One question, what is the benefit of viewing recordings when one can just look at chart print outs? Particularly, if one is trading a system only using price bars and an EMA.

Thank you much!

Reply With Quote
 
  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate, Jigsaw Tools
Favorite Futures: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 566 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 974 given, 826 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

@johny1971

I just prefer recordings. Especially if you look at a few markets together. If watching the ES for instance one might also have charts of the YM and NQ up to see how they are all moving to influence your decision. Or the Treasuries, the ZB, ZN and ZF. Also if looking at order flow you won't see that on a chart afterwards (large bids or offers pausing the market, icebergs etc).
So it depends. I use the recording because it feels like watching and reacting to a live trading day. I just have the free version as I am not interested in editing videos, putting them on YouTube or anything like that, just replaying them myself.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 491 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,641 given, 1,139 received


Cool thread and I can appreciate where you are coming from and how you wish to accomplish these goals.

If I may add in another book that should be essential to your studying, it is Nassim Taleb's Fooled by Randomness. It will give you some good insight into things that a lot of educators do not mention. For one, it should raise your scepticism of any trading method and it will also give you some insight into the risk of ruin in a way that I found quite unique and eye-opening.

Regarding trading itself - I know no successful traders who are jack of all trades. Most of the successful guys have a single approach that works for them and that they have "mastered" completely. Keep this in mind for your journey.

Final note regarding education - going into trading without a plan is a sure way to get killed. However, trading quite often revolves around patience, waiting for the right opportunity, making the most of that opportunity and not getting scared out too early. There is a balance between aggression and risk management which is unique to each trader and it can take a while to get the balance right.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to grausch for this post:
 
  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Omaha, NE/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader; Jigsaw; TOS
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
johny1971's Avatar
 
Posts: 101 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 205 given, 81 received

@grausch

Thanks for the book recommendation. Grimes talks some about the randomness of the market and the near impossibility of locating and edge, which it seems he defines as the exploitation of a repeatable pattern that can produce consistent results (or something like that). Reading the Taleb book could help with appreciating the psychology of the market and/or the psychology of myself vis a vis the market. Anyhow, after Link I think I will get that book - just ordered from Amazon. I always have a book I am reading since my job allows me down time occasionally.

I get what you are saying about honing an approach. I see the price action, order flow, and volume profile as fundamentals that can reinforce each other. I may be off, but so far that is how I see it. Currently, when trading price action I see activity through the 'volume profile lens' that informs my bias, not necessarily my trading as my bias is from me and my trading is from the plan, though my bias informs my initiation of the plan or my psychology while in the trade. It is all circular, I guess. Also, knowing all three and learning them over months each, allows me to have some sharp tools in my bag. For instance, a volume profile may not be great for this slow grind ES market, but my PA plan can handle it ok. This idea is most nascent, but I do think it has potential. Also, I have a feeling nothing like learning order flow can teach auction.

I like the aggression/risk-management spectrum.

Thanks again!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to johny1971 for this post:
 
  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 491 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,641 given, 1,139 received

You're welcome.

To me, Fooled by Randomness is more about how we fool ourselves. Being aware of this makes me question things in ways that I would not have before and I good example unfortunately relates to trading education - a healthy dose of scepticism is very much advised and until you have done your own research and drawn your own conclusions, you may not fully appreciate what I am trying to convey. Unfortunately when it comes to trading education, it is very easy to manipulate past results or even offer training for trading methods that will never make money without being held accountable.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to grausch for this post:
 
  #16 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: NQ, ES
 
Posts: 10 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 10 received

Al Brooks

I second that, Al Brooks's books are in my opinion the most comprehensive material on price action that exists. If you read and memorize as much of the material and then apply it correctly, you will be surprised at the results. Mastery of price action, risk management, psychology, patience, and self-discipline are the keys to success in this business!

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Trader V for this post:
 
  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Omaha, NE/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader; Jigsaw; TOS
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
johny1971's Avatar
 
Posts: 101 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 205 given, 81 received

Monthly Check-In

What I have done the past month for my education:

finished Link
got some ATR % ideas regarding targets
got some ideas of seeking high probability trades, really got this important idea in my head, trying to have it always inform my entries
also, ask myself about confidence when taking the trade. aka am I entering in a way I could explain to someone
still
more to learn from this book as I review and make notes about it

started Fooled by Randomness
this is a highly intelligent book that is fun to read with plenty of good anecdotes, so it is a nice break

strong return to emphasis on Al Brooks

continuing development of a trade log that fits me

involvement with S5 community

still updating my FIO posts which is becoming increasingly difficult, but satisfying and much respect to those that continually post in a journal

low emphasis on Grimes, though I did listen to a 3 of his podcasts this weekend, but I plan on saving his book for months from now and occasionally visit his free online course

switched practice from M6E to ES, this makes it more easily to follow Brooksí ideas, specifically the bar bar analysis offered on his price action website


Some Lessons

when I hit a plateau in dedication, I plowed through with reassertion of my self coupled with, ironically, a little rest

some things need to wait - I have decided to put order flow and Grimes, for the most part, out of my mind as I focus on Brooks

stay open to advice - hence the Brooks focus and Fooled by Randomness and practicing the M6E was good as it allowed me to start with a slower paced market and gives me something to compare other markets with

trade with a plan regardless - even if it seems really bad, it is a starting point from which can aid in the press of improvements, now I need to focus on trading 1 contract with money management and trade management (eg when to get out), an entry criteria articulated in a trading plan is proving hard to do with the discretionary system similar to Brooks, but I am thinking about that a little, what is key now is just reading the bars and entering and getting ticks and maybe getting points

donít be a chicken (whatever that means) when it comes to asking questions

What is Ahead

the goal is consistency in all I do - sleep, eat, trade, learn, at work

establish a daily trade routine - getting close to this - wake up at 7:30am, eat, Trader Bites, set up screens, can enter first trade 9:20am after 11:00am cease entering trades, and at 11:30am disengage, review trades, then it is either walk, work, eat, visit with wife, return to education at nite with Brooks at around 8pm, take breaks from desk, and go to bed at 12:00am

also find time for FIO webinars and forum participation

when the time comes plan to trade the YM or NQ since easier on capital

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xlsx Recent Trade Log Version.xlsx (33.4 KB, 23 views)
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to johny1971 for this post:
 
  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Omaha, NE/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader; Jigsaw; TOS
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
johny1971's Avatar
 
Posts: 101 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 205 given, 81 received

Starting to Trade and Getting Education


Trader V View Post
I second that, Al Brooks's books are in my opinion the most comprehensive material on price action that exists. If you read and memorize as much of the material and then apply it correctly, you will be surprised at the results. Mastery of price action, risk management, psychology, patience, and self-discipline are the keys to success in this business!





I see that you got the price action education from Brooks. What about risk management? I tried Tharp, but that seems way ahead of me, given I only trade one contract, so, for instance, position size is settled. Also, I have found, with Brooks, my trade develops the momentum or not. That is, if it doesn't go my way then my stop is hit and if I have 2-3 pt stops I am having bigger losses than winners. Then there is the question of exiting a bad trade or raising stops on a good one. I like the idea of targeted profit, because that gets me out with a profit and then I stay in with a really tight stop to protect that profit.



I am growing ok with initial tight stops (7 ticks max) because 1) I can take a small loss better than a large one and 2) once I am out I can always get back in if a set up is produced. Also, I really like Link's idea that cutting losses, cutting losses, and cutting losses is as key to trading as location, location, location risky to real estate. He says over and over again that preserving precious capital is key and that that focus is what keeps you able to trade another day.



Maybe as my win loss percentage stabilizes I can use bigger initial stops. It seems Brooks teaches principally two methods, stop at the recent low if long and stop at the recent high if short. The other is the stop below the bar prior to entry. I guess I do a combination of these: stop a few ticks below the entry bar or I want to enter when the recent high or low is not more than a few ticks from entry.



Overall, I am seeing how Brooks can work as for my first 31 ES sim trades I am up 44 ticks. I mainly trade and consider where in market structure and legs and identify a signal bar and count bars with pressure in mind. I strictly enter buy the close and keep risk to 5-7 ticks, with those above parameters in mind. I also like to use measured moves for targets and entries and avoiding entries.



But, anyone with ideas for Brooks and stops would be helpful.



Thanks!


Last edited by johny1971; April 2nd, 2017 at 01:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to johny1971 for this post:
 
  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Francisco, CA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB-TWS, Ninja, Wave59, R
Broker/Data: IB, IQFeed
Favorite Futures: ZB
 
Posts: 37 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 23 received

I will give another plug for Al. His videos are also good....makes his books a little more understandable.

That being said you will only get truly educated when you start putting your money on the line. No matter how much you sim trade it is not the same. You can make 20 ticks a day on sim and lose 20 ticks a day for real with the same system. It is sort of like playing poker against a computer compared to sitting at a table in vegas with 4-6 other real players. Playing against the computer is good to learn the rules, but that's about it. I am not putting down sim trading because it has its use ...but when you do start trading play small (1-2 contracts) and expect to lose all your money at the beginning...it will be the cheapest and most valuable education you will have gotten.

Also because you are sim trading don't limit yourself to one contract....try NQ, try ZB, try CL, try 6J, etc.....

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to marpol for this post:
 
  #20 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: NQ, ES
 
Posts: 10 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 10 received

You are correct



marpol View Post
I will give another plug for Al. His videos are also good....makes his books a little more understandable.

That being said you will only get truly educated when you start putting your money on the line. No matter how much you sim trade it is not the same. You can make 20 ticks a day on sim and lose 20 ticks a day for real with the same system. It is sort of like playing poker against a computer compared to sitting at a table in vegas with 4-6 other real players. Playing against the computer is good to learn the rules, but that's about it. I am not putting down sim trading because it has its use ...but when you do start trading play small (1-2 contracts) and expect to lose all your money at the beginning...it will be the cheapest and most valuable education you will have gotten.

Also because you are sim trading don't limit yourself to one contract....try NQ, try ZB, try CL, try 6J, etc.....

You are absolutely correct in your statement. The first year and a half I spent learning and sim trading. I had the luxury to learn and sim trade full time as I did not need to hold a traditional job i.e. 9-5. I spent literally 12-15 hours a day doing trading stuff. I would sim trade in the morning and study and read in the afternoon and night. Then I would wake up the next day and do it all over again. It took about a year and a half of this cycle where I got to a level in which I felt comfortable enough and saw (what I thought was) consistency in my sim trading. Enter real money live trading: I lost my ass each and every day until I inevitably blew out my account. I did not understand what was going on. I did not even fathom that the reason I was constantly loosing when trading live was because of what was in my own head and how I perceived money. I compared my sim trading to my live trading and saw that I was entering and managing in a completely different way which lead me to ask my self why I was doing so. By profession and schooling I am a psychologist (but I no longer work in this field) and I began to develop a sort of mindfulness and increased my self awareness while I was trading live. This (slowly and painfully) lead to the realization that fear was the culprit, specifically fear of loosing money and fear of being wrong. One of the main causes was also how I perceived money and how I attached that perception to the markets. The actual mechanism at work from a cognitive sense is that fear, in certain situations, activates the fight or flight response in the brain. More specifically, it triggers the release of cortisol which is the chemical in the brain that triggers the fear and in turn the fight or flight response in the human body. When traders have fear, that fear is irrational because they are not in any actual danger to body and well being/death. It is simply the way most people's brains are wired with regards to trading. It takes a long, long time to unlearn this while in front of the markets and takes steady training and positive reinforcement. It took an additional year and a half to train my own brain not to trigger this response or the fear that accompanies it. So when you sit in front of a live account and trade, this is whats actually going on that is causing you to think irrationally and in turn to lose money. Quite simple actually. Hope this helps you guys out.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Trader V for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > Starting to Trade and Getting Education

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

How to use the Footprint Tool to Execute Trades w/Brannigan Barrett

Elite only
 

Ask Me Anything (Brokers & Platforms) w/Ilan Levy Mayer @ Cannon Trading

Dec 13
 

Battlestations! Show us your trading desks w/GFF Brokers ($750 in Prizes)

January
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Minimum starting funds to learn to trade Big Mike Traders Hideout 141 November 7th, 2018 06:30 PM
Starting education in futures jcherra Beginners and Introductions 2 March 9th, 2016 11:14 AM
Starting to Trade European Markets bojangle Emini Index Futures Trading 5 March 24th, 2013 10:17 PM
Help starting to trade futures tmoorehead Beginners and Introductions 11 May 29th, 2012 08:36 AM


Tags
adam grimes, al brooks, atr, ats, auction theory, bookmap, cl, data, discretionary trading, dom, dow, ecosystem, ema, email, feedback, footprint, footprint chart, futures, indicator, indicators, information, jigsaw, jigsaw trading, jigsawtrading, journal, ladder, live trading, market profile, market_replay, momentum, money management, no bs day trading, nobsdaytrading, nq, order flow, patterns, peter davies, price action, profitable, psychology, qualitative, replay, research, review, risk management, scalping, sim, sim_trading, spectrum, stage 5, swing, switching, tape reading, tharp, trade management, trading, trading method, trading plan, van tharp, volman, volume, volume profile, webinars

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2018 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2018-12-09 in 0.11 seconds with 14 queries on phoenix