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Where I am after 8 months of trading ES
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Where I am after 8 months of trading ES

  #31 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
It's amazing how many different opinions there are. The above is likely the one post which makes me seriously doubt if what I am doing is of any use. Holding biotech over 6 months is also not always an option since I am specifically targeting those in clinical development which are very volatile. Probably worth considering a total change of strategy, and going into investing into larger companies. But then you need to read and understand financial statements, yawn.

As another poster said, it's not even so much about the money, but the mental challenge . I have learned to trust that there is not much in life one can't achieve with motivation, persistance and going a little bit off the beaten path. Financial success is an inevitable consequence.

I was rather seeing this money as tuition fee. When you go to university this also costs money, just living costs, not mentioning no income. If you think to stop trading is the right thing to do you would actually need to say this to each and every trader newly out there, who is loosing money, in the beginning. I do think it makes a difference if you already have an established income, or this idea of becoming rich, instead of doing a degree.

First and foremost, you need to make money before worrying about taxes. Taxes are secondary, but if you were doing well with the biotechs and holding them longer than 6 months, then it would have made sense to spend more of your focus there. Since that is not the case it makes very little difference - in both cases you may pay 40% of your short-term gains in taxes.

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  #32 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
It's amazing how many different opinions there are.

It is, isn't it?

Basically, you will have to find your own path, lonely or not. Other people's advice can only help a little.

If I were to offer any, I would pretty much repeat this from @Big Mike:


Big Mike View Post
I'm one of the few, it seems, who disagree with going to sim.

Instead, just reduce size. If you are down to 1 contract ES, then futures are too big. Trade ETF's like SPY instead. Reduce your position size and increase your trade duration. Whatever you do, don't scalp. I've repeated this a thousand times over the years, and the ones that follow this advice have come back and told me it really made the difference for them.

Good luck.

Mike

Once you know the technical stuff, you really need to slow down the speed at which the markets come at you, so to speak, and the consequences of being wrong, until it is personally and emotionally manageable. But not in the world of sim, where the most important issues -- your response to gain and loss, and to risk -- are completely missing.

So one thing could be to dial the risk back to a manageable level and a manageable pace.

This is good too:


Big Mike View Post
Big Jim here -- welcome to the forum, start reading and participating and you'll start improving your trading. I recommend spending as much time as possible in the webinar section to start.

Mike

You may need an Elite membership for the webinars, I don't remember. But browse around here and soak up as much info as you can, and try to put it into a perspective that makes sense to you.

Evaluate advice, see if you can extract some value from it, but don't simply accept any, including this.

Good luck.

Bob.

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  #33 (permalink)
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Paige View Post
IMO, since it's advent, sim is probably responsible for the loss of more actual money in the markets than any other factor.

I actually agree with you for once @Paige. Sim just creates bad habits and reinforces bad behaviors. I've witnessed countless hundreds of users on this forum stay on sim for long periods of time, radically change their methodologies over and over, and just get deeper and deeper away from reality.

It's a complete waste of time, but worse -- it's learning bad behavior. The more time on sim, the more difficult you make it to learn how to really trade.

For anyone that doesn't believe me, you can test it easily yourself. You've sim traded for 'x' days/weeks/months, now go live trade and try to copy your sim results as close as you can. Then measure the results, see how different your live trades are from your cash ones. You'll come up with a whole new set of excuses as to why, but this is because you aren't prepared to accept the real reason which is that sim has no bearing on reality.

I am speaking in general terms, there are exceptions to every rule. If you think you are the exception then you can easily prove it to yourself.

I've seen people argue that airline pilots train on simulators and its useful. I agree with that. But those simulators are entirely different conditions than you trading on sim in your platform. It's not even close. Those simulations have stringent rules and severe consequences, neither of which are true for you trading sim on your own platform.

Most people trading sim treat it more like a video game than anything else. If you die, you just respawn and keep going.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

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  #34 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
Holding biotech over 6 months is also not always an option since I am specifically targeting those in clinical development which are very volatile. Probably worth considering a total change of strategy, and going into investing into larger companies. But then you need to read and understand financial statements, yawn.

This statement reveals a lot. I would encourage you to just abandon trading, I think you have the completely wrong ideas and wrong expectations, and that you aren't really interested in taking it seriously.

There is no harm in that. In fact, you should be congratulated if you actually just walk away. Most people should walk away, yet aren't strong enough to do it. Trading is not for everyone, just like pro-NFL, rocket science, neurosurgeon, etc is not for everyone. It takes a specific set of skills to accomplish, and not everyone has the ability, no matter how strong their desire.

Willpower alone is not enough to be successful.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #35 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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Big Mike View Post
This statement reveals a lot. I would encourage you to just abandon trading, I think you have the completely wrong ideas and wrong expectations, and that you aren't really interested in taking it seriously.

There is no harm in that. In fact, you should be congratulated if you actually just walk away. Most people should walk away, yet aren't strong enough to do it. Trading is not for everyone, just like pro-NFL, rocket science, neurosurgeon, etc is not for everyone. It takes a specific set of skills to accomplish, and not everyone has the ability, no matter how strong their desire.

Willpower alone is not enough to be successful.

Mike


This is disappointing. I feel like I have to justify myself.. Suffice to say that this was of course not preplanned, I had no idea that this was going to be so volatile. I luckily managed to hold my biggest winner for over 9 months, it just went up and up (with ups and downs of course). Now it's back to less than 50% of the top so I can't see a reason to keep it further (the landscape has also changed for this specfic product).

IBB went up 3.5% today . Individual stocks are up and down like mad. I am mostly out of the sector for a while since this is not the volatility I want (rather being bought by a bigger company, or promising results - of course there is the downside risk of failed studies). I have a certain way of choosing clinical stage companies (needless to say based on publically avaialble data, and i have no knowledge beyond those), and specifically not targeted the bigger, established players, exc GILD of course (and Shire when I thought their price dropped unfairly), for several reasons. Again, I feel like I have to justify myself so if someone is actually interested, please ask... When things cool down in the sector I'll also look at the likes of AMGN . CELG again.

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  #36 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
This is disappointing.

In 6 years of doing this, I found that giving tough advice is usually the best way to get through to people. The advice will be more positive after you start making more positive decisions.

Good luck on your journey.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #37 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I actually agree with you for once @Paige. Sim just creates bad habits and reinforces bad behaviors. I've witnessed countless hundreds of users on this forum stay on sim for long periods of time, radically change their methodologies over and over, and just get deeper and deeper away from reality.

It's a complete waste of time, but worse -- it's learning bad behavior. The more time on sim, the more difficult you make it to learn how to really trade.

For anyone that doesn't believe me, you can test it easily yourself. You've sim traded for 'x' days/weeks/months, now go live trade and try to copy your sim results as close as you can. Then measure the results, see how different your live trades are from your cash ones. You'll come up with a whole new set of excuses as to why, but this is because you aren't prepared to accept the real reason which is that sim has no bearing on reality.

I am speaking in general terms, there are exceptions to every rule. If you think you are the exception then you can easily prove it to yourself.

I've seen people argue that airline pilots train on simulators and its useful. I agree with that. But those simulators are entirely different conditions than you trading on sim in your platform. It's not even close. Those simulations have stringent rules and severe consequences, neither of which are true for you trading sim on your own platform.

Most people trading sim treat it more like a video game than anything else. If you die, you just respawn and keep going.

Mike

Being a pilot I can tell you that airline sims are different because the pilots are using standard operating procedures and practicing them. When you fly a sim it has a purpose, you are training how to handle different situations and what the correct responses are.

A novice trader has no SOP to follow when they sim trade, they usually have a half baked strategy based on a hindsight tested indicator.


Last edited by tturner86; October 15th, 2015 at 06:49 PM.
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  #38 (permalink)
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My post has attracted quite a bit of attention so I hope it's ok if I post once more. I have been doing some thinking today, both browsing a bit on this great forum, but also looking at the arguments of people who tell me I should stop trading altogether. The thing is that the 20 K Account I was referring to was really what I had put aside to learn trading futures. I started off with 22 actually (in different historical accounts) , and still hold 12K in the other account, from the most profitable biotech shares. So the overall account is "only" down 2K. The futures are the problem which is why I have emphasised this from the start.

I just can't agree that I should stop trading altogether. Big Mike you might have gotten hung up by the fact that I don't like to read financial statements. I don't , which is why I found myself the cozy little niche of the biotech shares in clinical development, where there are no financial statements to read , but I can apply my unique skill set of understanding medical need and clinical trials. I can certainly say I have found my own way of doing things, On that basis I have practised trading for a couple of years now, with quite good success (exc the futures).

I have looked at different trading options today (forex, ETFs etc) but the thing is that I don't want to be trading for the sake of it. I like and know biotech, and I was attracted to the futures due to the potential . People on the forum here are talking about adding to their accounts , eg from their savings, their other income . I have a very good day job income but I have no intention to keep adding to a loosing proposition. That's why I came here to ask what I might improve. I do think many people have similar problems to myself, but might not be outspoken. I will become Elite member and look at the webinars, and journals etc.

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  #39 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
Big Mike you might have gotten hung up by the fact that I don't like to read financial statements. I don't

Nothing to do with financial statements, everything to do with your approach and attitude towards trading.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
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  #40 (permalink)
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Lonely path View Post
My post has attracted quite a bit of attention so I hope it's ok if I post once more. I have been doing some thinking today, both browsing a bit on this great forum, but also looking at the arguments of people who tell me I should stop trading altogether. The thing is that the 20 K Account I was referring to was really what I had put aside to learn trading futures. I started off with 22 actually (in different historical accounts) , and still hold 12K in the other account, from the most profitable biotech shares. So the overall account is "only" down 2K. The futures are the problem which is why I have emphasised this from the start.

I just can't agree that I should stop trading altogether. Big Mike you might have gotten hung up by the fact that I don't like to read financial statements. I don't , which is why I found myself the cozy little niche of the biotech shares in clinical development, where there are no financial statements to read , but I can apply my unique skill set of understanding medical need and clinical trials. I can certainly say I have found my own way of doing things, On that basis I have practised trading for a couple of years now, with quite good success (exc the futures).

I have looked at different trading options today (forex, ETFs etc) but the thing is that I don't want to be trading for the sake of it. I like and know biotech, and I was attracted to the futures due to the potential . People on the forum here are talking about adding to their accounts , eg from their savings, their other income . I have a very good day job income but I have no intention to keep adding to a loosing proposition. That's why I came here to ask what I might improve. I do think many people have similar problems to myself, but might not be outspoken. I will become Elite member and look at the webinars, and journals etc.

I have been developing network security and remote access systems for over 12 years out of my 18 year career as an engineer. I quit my job and started as a full time trader for the past one year. Looking back , the engineering job was much too easier for the following reason

1) There was structure, process and management. Once we develop an idea of a new product, there is a clear plan to achieve the same. Strong collaboration with teams of experts identified and mitigated risks beforehand. Responsibility and achievements were shared by the whole team and there was always opportunity for the better ones to perform and shine.

When I was doing part time trading while working, there was a huge conflict between my engineering mind and learning to think in probabilities and how I dealt with risk. I figured if I want to pursue my passion for trading I have to sacrifice my high paying job.

Now I dont have a plan B, I dedicate all my effort and focus on trading and trading related activities. Few years back I joined a meditation group, worked with a bunch of trading psychologists, tried a lot of alternate healing techniques (hypnosis , binural beats, emotion code, sedona method, dr hawkins etc etc ), all in pursuit to prepare my mind for trading, managing emotions and getting rid of stress and impulsive behavior.

Looking back, getting into full-time trading is the best decision I have ever made. It is not just about money but I really enjoy the whole process. Psychologically I am at the best place in my whole life thus far. It is not hardwork but commitment and dedication is the key.

Now there are so many others that can balance trading and a fulltime job. Every one is different and you have to figure out what are your strengths and weakness and where you need to improve. What have you learned from your trading gig so far , both about yourself and the market ?. What are your plans for addressing these ?. What timeframe are you comfortable with ( trader / investor ) ?.

Regardless of what you choose, the activity of trading opens a window into your current personality. Where you go from here greatly depends on how much passion you have to effect meaningful changes to achieve your goals.

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