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What I wish I would have known when I got started.
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What I wish I would have known when I got started.

  #11 (permalink)
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Itchymoku View Post
I'd probably give up trading altogether if it meant I had a loving wife.

Damn Itchy, that's deep.

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1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
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  #12 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Damn Itchy, that's deep.

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Itchys a lover not a fighter...

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  #13 (permalink)
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What's the difference ??



DeadCatBounced View Post
Yeah, I also tend to fall strongly into the first category. I think this goes back to the way I went through school - I was home-schooled through roughly two thirds of grades 1-9 due to my family travelling overseas. By the time I went to high school I firmly believed I could learn on my own faster and better then what the teacher was teaching.

When I first got started in trading I had an experience with a vendor - ironically it didn't cost me anything but I feel I learned many thousands of dollars worth of education from it! Quite simply a guy I met wanted me to help build his website / run his email for him and in return he would teach me his "system". It took me about 1 month of watching this guy and tracking his results to realize that he wasn't making any money from his trading and wanted to make money from teaching people how to trade....

After being on the inside of that it was easy for me to just automatically discount all other vendors. Maybe I am being too harsh and there are good vendors out there I just automatically have assumed the worst. Part of why I have loved FIO(yes I typed BMT first hah) is that the information in webinars is just sitting there for you to take in at your own pace, AND if you have the time to go through peoples journals and see the result of many common ideas being played out... It is fairly easy to take away what works, doesnt work.



Yeah I see this as well and it seems insane to me.

I probably should take the time to respond more in-depth to @Zentrader2010.

Two points I guess. 1. I think there has been many tons of electronic ink spent on this forum about the psychological effects of trading an over leveraged account. Mortgaging an asset I have already just to have a larger account to work with I do not think would make that psychological pressure any easier.

2. I completely disagree with mortgaging a house / business / whatever the asset may be to provide funds for trading. Being in my late 20's and newly married I think it is important to place myself on a path towards financial success. My wife and I do have a house that we are slowly renovating (I did alot of work on it while we were engaged). For me to reach my financial goals I want to go about it in a number of different paths. Buying a house and not paying rent is one way to put money back in my own pocket.

Taking a 2nd mortgage on the house to finance trading related goals is simply too risky and not a path I am willing to do (My wife actually brought this up just so we could talk about it but neither of us want to do this.)

Saving up $100k for example there are a few other financial goals that would go along with it. We have a small business idea that needs startup capital. Both of us come from families that have done reasonably well flipping houses / gaining rental income etc, I am handy enough to do the work on these types of projects. I guess what I am saying is that I am at a point where I want to put a number of different seeds into the ground and lets see what comes up. Mortgaging an asset to double down on trading isn't something that I am comfortable with.

Hi,
I'm not sure you've really thought this through properly....I mean, I've been there and done it so to speak being 20 years your senior...however my marriage ended in divorce so perhaps my dedication to trading made her an 'internet widow'
Anyway - What is the real practical difference between
a) having a mortgage and putting all your spare earnings into it to pay it down faster or
b) paying what your bank expects you to pay in the 20 year repayments every month, and saving your 100 K cash aside in a separate account.
They only difference is that in example a) you just re-withdraw the 100K and start paying some interest whilst you use it trading....compared to b) you have NOT placed this 100K against your mortgage account so you have not payed down the monthly interest expense in favor of cash account interest (Why it's lower?) so you end up paying more interest anyway, and you are actually doing exactly the same thing ( think carefully about it)....
If you've ever traded options, you know that in the options formula, the interest money you are saving when you buy a call option rather than the outright stock ( A lot more $$$$) is charged to you via the options premium anyway.....no such thing as a free lunch buddy.....so you're not really saving your mortgage by not paying towards it in favor of an off-set account......
SO???? a) and b ) are equiv. in practical money terms why do you FEEL better doing b)??? YOu're just choosing to delay paying down a) anyway which is not actually sensible because you pay the bank more interest over time.
So just trade your line of credit......it's better actually because if trading becomes your business the interest becomes a tax deductible expense and you save about 30c in the $1 compared to version b) where you pay tax on interest earned......
Regards,
One whose done exactly what you did, but just payed down my mortgage and got a line of credit rather than keep it in cash ( same difference as you now owe the bank more via the mortgage anyway da da da )....

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  #14 (permalink)
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I Stopped Trading

I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

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  #15 (permalink)
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WISDOM View Post
I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

I applaud you for your decision, and your courage to post. You may wish to cross-post your story here, to reach more people:

https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/26691-time-give-up.html

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Orlando, Florida
 
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Great list. Thanks!

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  #17 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Boston Massachusetts
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES, Crude CL, Gold GC
 
Posts: 13 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

The first poster Dead Cat Bounced is a beautiful sharing. I want to thank you for the entire posting.

I am new here just joined. have to find my way around.

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  #18 (permalink)
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Western Slope+Colorado/USA
 
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WISDOM View Post
I wonder how many people on this site that need to face the fact that they need to stop trading. My last trade was in January of this year. I was attempting to make a living in the futures market and nearly lost everything in the process. There was nothing wrong with my method. Nearly every mistake was a mental error--pure psychology. I traded a minimum of 5 contracts and as much as 40. I can't count the number of times I had to re-fund my account.

I do plan to return to trading one day. I still paper trade (very successfully), but now I am working full time to rebuild my savings. My top 7 learnings are:

1. Master support and resistance
2. Limit indicators to the bare minimum
3. Stay away from short time intervals and use the dominate one for the market your are trading
4. Control your emotions
5. Be very patient and let the market come to you
6. Maintain a detailed journal
7. Learn when to stop trading short term and permanently ( I should have stopped much sooner).

I firmly believe there are, relatively, a small group of traders that can make a good living trading interday futures. I was not one of them. Are you?

Stopping trading is not an easy thing to do. I believe it takes courage to admit to ones self when something is simply not working out. The best thing you can do is realize that before you are at complete rock bottom. Trading is an extremely difficult thing to do. My best analogy of trading would be like trying to solve an algorithm equation while in a boxing ring trying to keep from getting punched in the face.
The emotional ups and downs associated with risk take an enormous toll on a persons psychological well being. I believe it takes a certain mindset and personality to succeed at this game, but that said, I also believe that anyone can change themselves into that mindset and personality to succeed. Those who are unwilling to change are the ones who trade until they are out of money and then leave. The successful ones force themselves into the mentality it takes willing to learn what they need to survive.
I applaud you for doing what you believe is the responsible decision for your life. There are those that go until they have gone completely broke, or worse yet in debt that will take a lifetime to recover from. This is the gambling mentality and the sad parallel between risk taking in a controlled way and rolling the dice with an addictive context.

Best of luck in your future endeavors!

-D

“Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome.”
-Arthur Ashe
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  #19 (permalink)
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ALISO VIEJO
 
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Posts: 1 since Dec 2015
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Trading 10 Commandments

Ok, I know the title is pretentious but it sounds good. They aren't set in stone. I've considered adding one or two. Those changes tend to fit somewhere within one of these.

I've learned these through hard-knocks, learning what successful traders do, and learning about trading psychology. I think they are important enough to warrant being on a list. You may disagree with one or more of these. That's fine. There are many ways to make money in the markets. Some people can trade off news announcements. I haven't been very successful doing it so I avoid it. Also, I like automated trading. It fits my disposition and I don't like sitting in front of the screen twitching on every entry and exit signal and going through the emotional ups and downs as the trade evolves. My confidence in the strategy allows me to put the mouse down and walk away to enjoy time with family.

** Trading 10 Commandments
1 Trading is your business not your hobby.
2 Have rules to enter and exit a trade before you enter.
3 Don’t risk more than you are willing to lose.
4 Develop confidence in your system with backtesting.
5 Don’t trade in anger, to get even, or in fear.
6 Don’t trade off news.
7 Don’t micromanage your trades.
8 Know your trading tools.
9 Keep physically and mentally fit.
10 Read these commandments each trading day.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Day trading is not for me


After years of trading, I wish I have never tried day trading futures. I have tried every method I know, trend following, band trading, volatility breakout, mean reversion in stock index, bond and currency futures. I would be lucky if I could get a break even month. Too many adverse factors in day trading.

Random direction - The intraday direction is difficult to predict even taking into account the higher time frame of daily and hourly chart. The intraday momentum direction can change suddenly without any warning sign.
Random magnitude of move - The magnitude of each move is difficult to predict. Occasionally the market may give a nice trend, but most intraday moves are short and choppy. Easily lost what I have gained in a few choppy moves. Hardly justify the risk involved. In some trades, I need to risk a dollar for reward of one dollar. Very bad risk to reward ratio.
Intraday stop hunting - Because of the limited profit potential in day trading, I cannot set a wide stop. Too many times the market stopped me out before it makes a big move.

Swing trading the daily charts of stocks are much easier, but it requires more capital to trade the stock daily charts. Do not put all eggs in one basket. Money management is important in each trade to limit your lost if you are wrong. My advise to beginner is that do not begin trading with trading the intraday time frames which are the most difficult and competitive field in trading business. Trust me. It looks easy but it is actually very difficult to be profitable in long run. Save enough money to do the daily charts of stocks which is profitable and less stressful.

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