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Is It Possible To Be Successful With A Chart Or Is Order Flow The Only Way?
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Is It Possible To Be Successful With A Chart Or Is Order Flow The Only Way?

  #1 (permalink)
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Is It Possible To Be Successful With A Chart Or Is Order Flow The Only Way?

Do you know of anyone successful with a chart or is order flow the only way?

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wallo101 View Post
Do you know of anyone successful with a chart or is order flow the only way?

Charts and associated tools can help you extrapolate what you think you see in order flow (order flow is only really a total of assumptions anyway), but straightforward math can to the same. It's your call really.

I will say there was a reason why many of the old hands made money off of simply looking at a ticker tape, in the moment.

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wallo101 View Post
Do you know of anyone successful with a chart or is order flow the only way?

Dan Zanger's website is called Chartpattern.com - Free Technical Stock Chart Analysis - Dan Zanger if that means anything. I doubt any trader here beats his best year performance and his performance since then is also market-beating.

Mark Minervini, David Ryan, William O'Neil are all Market Wizards using charts (I have missed many more just recalling those I am 100% sure using charts) and are still putting in market-beating performance (very sure on all of them, except for O'Neil).

If I may ask, why are you starting all of these threads? You won't really find the answers you are looking for. Easiest way to start is swing-trading equities - best book for that is this- How to Make Money in Stocks: A Winning System in Good Times and Bad, Fourth Edition: William O'Neil: 9780071614139: Amazon.com: Books.

Mark Minervini also wrote a book which ties in perfectly with O'Neil's book - Trade Like a Stock Market Wizard: How to Achieve Super Performance in Stocks in Any Market: Mark Minervini: 9780071807227: Amazon.com: Books. Mark's work is parallel to O'Neil's, but he was influenced by David Ryan (who was O'Neil's number-two for a number of years).

Minervini then got several traders together (himself, David Ryan, Dan Zanger & Mark Ritchie II - son of another Market Wizard) and issued this book - Momentum Masters - A Roundtable Interview with Super Traders - Minervini, Ryan, Zanger & Ritchie II: Mark Minervini, Bob Weissman: 9780996307901: Amazon.com: Books. Also worth a read.

No form of trading is easy, but individual equities tend to offer eye-popping returns if you can catch the best stocks. Moves of 1,000% are not that uncommon and 10,000% or 20,000% is also achievable if you can hold a stock for several years. With an initial risk of 10%, these type of trades offer tremendous reward to risk ratios.

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grausch View Post
Dan Zanger's website is called Chartpattern.com - Free Technical Stock Chart Analysis - Dan Zanger if that means anything. I doubt any trader here beats his best year performance and his performance since then is also market-beating.

Mark Minervini, David Ryan, William O'Neil are all Market Wizards using charts (I have missed many more just recalling those I am 100% sure using charts) and are still putting in market-beating performance (very sure on all of them, except for O'Neil).

If I may ask, why are you starting all of these threads? You won't really find the answers you are looking for. Easiest way to start is swing-trading equities - best book for that is this- How to Make Money in Stocks: A Winning System in Good Times and Bad, Fourth Edition: William O'Neil: 9780071614139: Amazon.com: Books.

Mark Minervini also wrote a book which ties in perfectly with O'Neil's book - Trade Like a Stock Market Wizard: How to Achieve Super Performance in Stocks in Any Market: Mark Minervini: 9780071807227: Amazon.com: Books. Mark's work is parallel to O'Neil's, but he was influenced by David Ryan (who was O'Neil's number-two for a number of years).

Minervini then got several traders together (himself, David Ryan, Dan Zanger & Mark Ritchie II - son of another Market Wizard) and issued this book - Momentum Masters - A Roundtable Interview with Super Traders - Minervini, Ryan, Zanger & Ritchie II: Mark Minervini, Bob Weissman: 9780996307901: Amazon.com: Books. Also worth a read.

No form of trading is easy, but individual equities tend to offer eye-popping returns if you can catch the best stocks. Moves of 1,000% are not that uncommon and 10,000% or 20,000% is also achievable if you can hold a stock for several years. With an initial risk of 10%, these type of trades offer tremendous reward to risk ratios.

I dunno about market beating... from his performance page
Chartpattern.com Recent Big Winners


Quoting 
The trades listed below show some of the best winning picks to illustrate the types of explosive moves seen in The Zanger Report. The trades listed below do not represent actual exit prices, but merely the "total moves" from The Zanger Report buy point in various time frames.

Certainly there were losers during these time frames, but we keep stops at $1 and the gains made by these winning stocks below far outweigh the small losses seen in stocks that fail to break out.

Cheery picking and no exit strategy - looks like a regular sell side broker report to me.

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  #6 (permalink)
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wallo101 View Post
Do you know of anyone successful with a chart or is order flow the only way?

The simplest way I know of to answer this type of question is to follow some of the trading journals on futures.io (formerly BMT) and see how different traders succeed, fail, or gain experience and learn.

Probably you would find that few traders use only order flow, but that does not mean that it is not useful, nor that you couldn't succeed with it. There really is no "only way." It is a totally individual thing and you have to find your own way. But others can help.

The best trade-by-trade, nearly real-time journal I have ever read is @Big Mike's thread, where he gives the trades he is taking and his reasoning, almost as he takes them: https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/1415-big-mike-s-day-trading-method-advice.html You will not see order flow there, however. Mike is consistently successful and has been over the long haul. That may help to answer your question.

As he says, start reading at the end (current entries), not the beginning, because his trading ideas have changed radically over time. Note that no one can be successful by just copying another trader -- however, you can learn from another and it can help you in finding your own way.

Unfortunately for you, this is an Elite-member only thread. One of the many reasons to take the plunge and risk the hundred bucks for a (lifetime) elite membership. Just saying....

Or, you could sample the main spoos (S&P 500 futures) thread, https://futures.io/index-futures-trading/13452-es-s-p-500-futures-contract-sp500-spoo-nalysis.html. This is not Elite (yet). Start with a current post and follow along. Expect to be overwhelmed at first by the content and the differences of opinion; these are active traders showing their trades as they are doing them, and some are extremely successful.

I do agree with what someone wrote about, essentially, why are you creating all these threads.... jump into the resources that are available and learn from what people are putting out for you to share in, if you will just take advantage of them....

Good luck, but this is hard work. Try some of this and see.

Bob.

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bobwest View Post
The simplest way I know of to answer this type of question is to follow some of the trading journals on futures.io (formerly BMT) and see how different traders succeed, fail, or gain experience and learn.

Probably you would find that few traders use only order flow, but that does not mean that it is not useful, nor that you couldn't succeed with it. There really is no "only way." It is a totally individual thing and you have to find your own way. But others can help.

The best trade-by-trade, nearly real-time journal I have ever read is @Big Mike's thread, where he gives the trades he is taking and his reasoning, almost as he takes them: https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/1415-big-mike-s-day-trading-method-advice.html You will not see order flow there, however. Mike is consistently successful and has been over the long haul. That may help to answer your question.

As he says, start reading at the end (current entries), not the beginning, because his trading ideas have changed radically over time. Note that no one can be successful by just copying another trader -- however, you can learn from another and it can help you in finding your own way.

Unfortunately for you, this is an Elite-member only thread. One of the many reasons to take the plunge and risk the hundred bucks for a (lifetime) elite membership. Just saying....

Or, you could sample the main spoos (S&P 500 futures) thread, https://futures.io/index-futures-trading/13452-es-s-p-500-futures-contract-sp500-spoo-nalysis.html. This is not Elite (yet). Start with a current post and follow along. Expect to be overwhelmed at first by the content and the differences of opinion; these are active traders showing their trades as they are doing them, and some are extremely successful.

I do agree with what someone wrote about, essentially, why are you creating all these threads.... jump into the resources that are available and learn from what people are putting out for you to share in, if you will just take advantage of them....

Good luck, but this is hard work. Try some of this and see.

Bob.

@bobwest always worth listening to

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  #8 (permalink)
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PeakGrowth View Post
I dunno about market beating... from his performance page
Chartpattern.com Recent Big Winners

Cheery picking and no exit strategy - looks like a regular sell side broker report to me.

This post has been pretty heavily edited to try and comply with futures.io (formerly BMT)'s vendor policy.

Your reaction is exactly the same as my initial reaction. Unfortunately his charts are cherry-picked and show no proper exit points. There is also no way to determine performance from those charts.

The OP wanted to know whether it is possible to make money using charts, and he and the other traders I mentioned all use charts and by all accounts are some of the better traders out there. All of these traders have had public trading records at some time and all of them outperformed the markets significantly during this time. The only one I struggle to find info on is O'Neil, but Jack Schwager regarded him as good enough for inclusion in Market Wizards.

Therefore, is it possible to make money using charts? I would say so, but it should be remembered that charts are only part of the equation and there is a lot more that is required for success.


Last edited by grausch; August 23rd, 2015 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Complying more with BMT's vendor policy
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I think it depends on what time frame you trade on. If you scalp, an understanding of order flow (conscious or not) is pretty much a must. If you trade longer time frames, it is helpful for getting the most out of entries and exits, but your overall focus must be price. A chart isn't necessary either way - it's only a means of visualizing historical data.

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