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Complete beginner no idea where to start
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Complete beginner no idea where to start

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
windsor, Ontario
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja,
Broker/Data: DTN iqfeed
Favorite Futures: Es, 6E
 
Posts: 138 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 40 given, 123 received

Make sure you are well funded when ever you begin trading. I would think a minimum account of $10,000 ( probably $20,000 more realistically) for futures and be prepared psychologically to lose a lot during the learning process - and going forward. You cannot win at this game without embracing and managing risk. You gamble you know that. No education is free.

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  #12 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: gold
 
Posts: 9 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received


drago1 View Post
Make sure you are well funded when ever you begin trading. I would think a minimum account of $10,000 ( probably $20,000 more realistically) for futures and be prepared psychologically to lose a lot during the learning process - and going forward. You cannot win at this game without embracing and managing risk. You gamble you know that. No education is free.

how come you need so much are there ways to invest smaller amounts to start with a smaller bankroll?

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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
windsor, Ontario
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja,
Broker/Data: DTN iqfeed
Favorite Futures: Es, 6E
 
Posts: 138 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 40 given, 123 received


Realistically there is no way to trade without that size account. If you trade with a tiny account you will trade too cautiously to avoid loss you will likely suffer more losses. If you trade too small your losses and commissions will eat away your profits. Do not hope this possible without real funds to trade. And money you can afford to lose. Mini Forex is a trap for dumb money and they will let you start an account with a credit card. You might as well just write them a checque. Surviving is job one as a trader. YOu need troops ( cash ) to bring to battle.

If you are good at cards than build up an account of consequence. Otherwise just set your money on fire if you come undercapitalized. Sorry this is reality.


Last edited by drago1; November 10th, 2014 at 11:00 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: gold
 
Posts: 9 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received


drago1 View Post
Realistically there is no way to trade without that size account. If you trade with a tiny account you will trade too cautiously to avoid loss you will likely suffer more losses. If you trade too small your losses and commissions will eat away your profits. Do not hope this possible without real funds to trade. And money you can afford to lose. Mini Forex is a trap for dumb money and they will let you start an account with a credit card. You might as well just write them a checque. Surviving is job one as a trader. YOu need troops ( cash ) to bring to battle.

If you are good at cards than build up an account of consequence. Otherwise just set your money on fire if you come undercapitalized. Sorry this is reality.

oh ok thanks for the info. I can't afford to take such a risk as of now but I don't even plan on trying this for awhile anyway. I'm just going to study this and continue with poker but by the looks of it online poker is headed downwards so once the potential profits dry up (given there isn't another boom) if I have learned enough by then I might consider withdrawing some of my roll to take a shot at this but this is still just speculation and I don't know yet if this is even right for me or whether or not I'll be able to do it.

Also how much emphasis is there on actual trading experience vs. study? and what sort of math requirements are there for this? I'm pretty bad at stuff other than multiplication, division, odds n stuff

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tucson AZ/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeNavigator
Favorite Futures: ES
 
casey44's Avatar
 
Posts: 133 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 1,923 given, 124 received

A friend sent me the video link below today, occurs to me it might appeal to you. Am not a Dough user myself but have heard positive things about them, and maybe you'd find the probability/numbers game of options a more familiar environment than other forms of trading, at least in the beginning. G'luck, your background should be a plus.

https://www.dough.com/blog/probability-wsop

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  #16 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
LONDON UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: IB XTRADER Jigsaw
Favorite Futures: CL YM BUND NQ
 
Posts: 60 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 20 given, 13 received

IMO get 5 different trader styles.

Use all 5 for 1 week each

See which 1 u enjoy and trade best with.

there are many ways to skin a cat

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,681 given, 3,621 received

what advice would you give someone who is starting out with poker like myself?

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  #18 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: gold
 
Posts: 9 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received


Itchymoku View Post
what advice would you give someone who is starting out with poker like myself?

1. bankroll management- this means having anywhere from 20-50 buy-ins (100 bb's) depending on the stakes
2. tilt management- know when to stop and create a stoploss strategy, never play when on tilt and leave your ego at the door
3. study the game as much as you can- get involved on poker forums, read books (relevant to todays games), subscribe to a training site and watch the videos relevant to your stakes. Study game theory. Review your own hands and hands your opponents played, plug your leaks and exploit theirs. You can also join a study group on skype and discuss hands with winning players.
4. Start small. Something a lot of players do is they start at a stake thats beyond their skill level and this just costs them a lot more $ to learn the game. In todays games just to beat the micro stakes takes skill and patience.
5.Have a positive mentality towards the game. Every player at some point will experience downswings that can last weeks if not months and this is really stressful and can effect the way you play.

That being said if you're getting into the game to actually make $$ of it then there's some stuff you should know.

In 2003 chris moneymaker an amateur who bought into a $39 online satellite and won a ticket to the wsop ended up knocking out seasoned pros and winning the main event. This was followed by whats known as the "poker boom". Online poker traffic sky rocketed and was full of amateur players. This allowed anyone who took the game seriously enough to make tons of $$, most of the 20-something year old poker players you know who are multi-millionaires made most their money during this time.

In 2011 on the day known as "black friday" the united states passed a law making it illegal for financial institutions to knowingly process transactions to/from gambling sites. The united states being the heart of poker made up most of the recreational players. This meant that americans could no longer play online, and on top of that players from other countries are just getting better and better. Information is a lot easier to be found these days, a simple google search "optimal starting hands for texas hold'em" will take a -20bb/100 losing player up to a -10bb/100 losing player.

The profits to be made from poker are slowly drying up and it takes a lot more effort and motivation to move up nowadays than it used to. There's a lot of controversy as to where online poker will be in 5 years from now as the united states may come back into the market creating another boom but all I know as of now is that cash game traffic on pokerstars (the biggest poker site) has decreased by 20% compared to last years numbers, and they pulled out from a lot of european markets.

So I don't want to discourage you or anything I just want to give you a headsup that its not what it once used to be. That said at the moment in time there still is a lot of money being made at poker but it just takes more effort and dedication to get your share of it.

Now if you were talking about live poker thats also getting harder (not my field of expertise) but live poker in general is a lot easier than online. A live 200nl game is comparable to an online 10nl game skill wise. Though in a live full ring game you play about 60 hands per hour whereas online you can play anywhere from 80-2000+ depending on how many tables you play.

Anyways just treat it as a hobby at first, study hard and all the best

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The following user says Thank You to Play4Keeps for this post:
 
  #19 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: gold
 
Posts: 9 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received


xylem View Post
IMO get 5 different trader styles.

Use all 5 for 1 week each

See which 1 u enjoy and trade best with.

there are many ways to skin a cat

thanks for the info


casey44 View Post
A friend sent me the video link below today, occurs to me it might appeal to you. Am not a Dough user myself but have heard positive things about them, and maybe you'd find the probability/numbers game of options a more familiar environment than other forms of trading, at least in the beginning. G'luck, your background should be a plus.

https://www.dough.com/blog/probability-wsop

thanks I'm gonna check this out rn

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  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,681 given, 3,621 received



Play4Keeps View Post
1. bankroll management- this means having anywhere from 20-50 buy-ins (100 bb's) depending on the stakes
2. tilt management- know when to stop and create a stoploss strategy, never play when on tilt and leave your ego at the door
3. study the game as much as you can- get involved on poker forums, read books (relevant to todays games), subscribe to a training site and watch the videos relevant to your stakes. Study game theory. Review your own hands and hands your opponents played, plug your leaks and exploit theirs. You can also join a study group on skype and discuss hands with winning players.
4. Start small. Something a lot of players do is they start at a stake thats beyond their skill level and this just costs them a lot more $ to learn the game. In todays games just to beat the micro stakes takes skill and patience.
5.Have a positive mentality towards the game. Every player at some point will experience downswings that can last weeks if not months and this is really stressful and can effect the way you play.

That being said if you're getting into the game to actually make $$ of it then there's some stuff you should know.

In 2003 chris moneymaker an amateur who bought into a $39 online satellite and won a ticket to the wsop ended up knocking out seasoned pros and winning the main event. This was followed by whats known as the "poker boom". Online poker traffic sky rocketed and was full of amateur players. This allowed anyone who took the game seriously enough to make tons of $$, most of the 20-something year old poker players you know who are multi-millionaires made most their money during this time.

In 2011 on the day known as "black friday" the united states passed a law making it illegal for financial institutions to knowingly process transactions to/from gambling sites. The united states being the heart of poker made up most of the recreational players. This meant that americans could no longer play online, and on top of that players from other countries are just getting better and better. Information is a lot easier to be found these days, a simple google search "optimal starting hands for texas hold'em" will take a -20bb/100 losing player up to a -10bb/100 losing player.

The profits to be made from poker are slowly drying up and it takes a lot more effort and motivation to move up nowadays than it used to. There's a lot of controversy as to where online poker will be in 5 years from now as the united states may come back into the market creating another boom but all I know as of now is that cash game traffic on pokerstars (the biggest poker site) has decreased by 20% compared to last years numbers, and they pulled out from a lot of european markets.

So I don't want to discourage you or anything I just want to give you a headsup that its not what it once used to be. That said at the moment in time there still is a lot of money being made at poker but it just takes more effort and dedication to get your share of it.

Now if you were talking about live poker thats also getting harder (not my field of expertise) but live poker in general is a lot easier than online. A live 200nl game is comparable to an online 10nl game skill wise. Though in a live full ring game you play about 60 hands per hour whereas online you can play anywhere from 80-2000+ depending on how many tables you play.

Anyways just treat it as a hobby at first, study hard and all the best


This is all stuff that can easily be translated into a trading strategy. I don't know if you're aware of that or not.

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