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does this road to knowledge sound ok?
Started:March 15th, 2010 (05:05 AM) by micksta Views / Replies:1,198 / 5
Last Reply:March 17th, 2010 (01:13 AM) Attachments:0

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does this road to knowledge sound ok?

Old March 15th, 2010, 05:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: gft
Favorite Futures: forex
Posts: 3 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 1 received

does this road to knowledge sound ok?

I notice there are a few people looking for online/offline courses to learn about trading. I am staring to get the feeling that this sort of education, which i myself am after, won't be available in a nice, neat package on the internet, in the forums, or at an established university.
Rather than go around in circles and get distracted by 'all the shiny lights' that each websight or "educational" company throws up, I am going to set out my goals here, and write down the steps i think i need to take to reach them. That way i can feel like i am making minor accomplishments, rather than being weighed down by things like "what is the best broker to use" or datafeed or whatever and losing sight of the things i should be spending my time on first.

I am posting this here to hopefully get some comments from some of those who have been down the novice path themselves and may be able to demystify the learning process for some of us beginners.

1) To be a profitable trader on the forex market.
2)Diversify to other markets.
3)Eventually be able to rely on trading as a sole source of income.

1)Learn the basics of technical analysis.

I am going to focus on chart patterns, candlestick patterns, support/resistance, fibonacci retracements, pivots.

I am leaning towards a trading style that will be mainly independant of all the typical/basic indicators. i.e. MA's rsi's macd etc
(please make any suggestions on this)

2)Be able to backtest strategies.
For this i have taught myself in excel, but are now looking to do backtests in NINJATRADER.

2A)Learn to use Ninjatrader, for this i will need to learn to use the software and the C# programming language.
(please make any suggestions on the best way to learn c# for use with ninjatrader.)

3)Learn what works and what simply does not work in the market
I am yet to do a single automated backtest on a trading strategy, so at this point, you could sell me a simple MA cross, and if you were a good salesmen i would probably buy into to it!
Well not again i wouldn't . Just kidding.
So once i reach this step, i guess i figure i will just start writing ninjascript and doing backtests on all the various methods that are out there. But this is what i mean by making the same mistakes as everyone else already has...
Do MA crosses work with the right money management? Would a simple break out method based on yesterdays high ever yield profit ( on daily charts) ???

Is this the right approach to take? i.e. do i have to do a back test for every simple method i come across? Or am i missing something completely obvious that anyone in the game for 2 years or more has come to learn?

What i am trying to say here is - What sort of things are doomed to fail?? Where should i focus my efforts when it comes to creating a winning stategy or trading style?

3) Learn money and trade management
I think my days of recklessly trading live and trading blind are over. I am truly aware of the importance money management has and a proper trading plan.
Trade management is an area that i will be focusing on, and i guess i ill be able to pick this up from the forums and blogs of active traders.

4) Trade in demo account
i have a demo account with GFT and have their App. installed on my iphone.

5)Seek out things like data feed, best broker,best charting applicaton.
Time and time again i distract myself on forums reading about broker complaints or bugs in chart software, when in reality i am months and months away from worrying about these details. so i will leave it to then...

I have a full time job so i am only able to trade off daily charts. I am only going to look into methods that use this time frame and the placing of limit or stop orders into the market that i can place outside business hours, (melbourne time).

i suppose i could use 8 hr or maybe even 4hr charts. I could place the orders before i went to work in the morning or anytime after my work hours.

Any thoughts on what sort of approach to this i should take?

What do you guys think of this plan? I am really keen to make this happen, i currently invest most of my spare time working on my goal some way or another.
i am eagerly awaiting any advice you may impart,

Thanks in advance


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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old March 16th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Brentwood, Tennessee
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: MetaTrader
Favorite Futures: forex
Posts: 39 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 172 given, 25 received

I hope you don't mind if I add some thoughts.

Keep in mind that back tests should be just a visual thing. I notice that traders put a lot of emphasis into back testing when they need to keep in mind that one cannot duplicate the back testing results when forward testing. Back testing is different when indicators repaint which leads to incomplete results too. December is a less active month for traders and what someone sees in back testing during that month won't necessarily represent what may happen in the following trading months. Back testing also shows what the markets do in a 24 hour period whereas traders mostly trade 8 hours or less a day. I don't rely on past performance to predict future possibilities.

Although I believe I have a good trading system, I always keep my eyes and ears open for other systems and try to improve on what I have. Keep your options open at all times. Thanks to The Wizard, he helped me with such a system yesterday.

I have been a mentor for several years and my philosophy is that if you want to be a successful trader, you need to find a successful mentor. I don't mentor anymore but if you want to be on the road to wealth, you need to find a trader that is already there and learn as much about this trader as you can. Find out what makes him tick and learn how. why and when he trades. If the mentor is successful, you can be too.

Good luck with your goals!

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Old March 16th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: gft
Favorite Futures: forex
Posts: 3 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 1 received

Thanks for the thoughts. It would be invaluable to find a successful trader to talk with. At this stage it's just me, the computer screen and a few books. I'm not actually one hundred percent convinced that there are people making money the way I want to. This is based on the fact that all the people I've come into contact with through trading are sales reps, book shop owners etc who make Monty from people trying to make money.

I'M going to step up the hunt for a trader that lives in Melbourne, he'll, i won't even narrow it down to Melbourne.
If I find someone in the whole of Australia that would be willing to talk face to face about trading without trying to sell me something then I would travel for it.
What are the chances? Let's hope it's possible.


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Old March 16th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
 R.I.P. 1960-2010 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader7
Broker/Data: Mirus RCG/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: CL & 6e, looking at ES, ZB and AU again.
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Posts: 2,100 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 1,104 given, 1,382 received

Find a skype buddy... go from there

Futures Edge on FIO

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micksta View Post
It would be invaluable to find a successful trader to talk with

Hey Mick,

Find someone to skype with. That person can be anywhere in the world. They don't have to be near enough to have a beer with at the moment. Keep looking. Read threads & posts, don't be surprised if some on this forum turn you down if you ask to work with them. It is the perseverant who form fruitful collaborations.


R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 01:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
Clearwater FL/USA
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeNavigator
Favorite Futures: ES
casey44's Avatar
Posts: 129 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 1,893 given, 119 received

Firstly, I’d recommend spending more time here in Big Mike’s site. Am relatively new here myself, but am continually impressed by the number of good-hearted and skilled folks and threads here. Secondly, fwiw, here are some sites I occasionally look at. Regardless of the nuts-and-bolts of their methodologies, their common denominator is all are successful traders and have integrity---at least as far as I can tell. Maybe you’ll find a spot of philosophy or a way of looking at things here that will serve you.
Don Miller Trading Journal
Electronic Local
All Allan

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