I had a pay stub request for a loan, I day trade so i pay myself. - Beginners and Introductions | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


I had a pay stub request for a loan, I day trade so i pay myself.
Updated: Views / Replies:2,214 / 17
Created: by emily28 Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

I had a pay stub request for a loan, I day trade so i pay myself.

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Favorite Futures: JDAM
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,784 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 9,849 given, 11,160 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


Big Mike View Post
Call your broker, they should be able to give you specific information and then you can confirm it with your accountant.

Mike

Yep. He has to fill out a waiver form. Again refer to your broker to ensure you have everything correct.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tturner86 for this post:
 
  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Texas, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: X_TRADER Pro, Custom
Broker/Data: NxCore
Favorite Futures: Futures, Spreads
 
Hulk's Avatar
 
Posts: 215 since May 2014
Thanks: 509 given, 474 received

Its a tough situation. I have been self-employed for about 5 years although my primary source of income is not from trading. During the first 2 years, I was denied left and right for every small little thing. But it got better after that and last year, I purchased a car for my wife and I was able to secure a loan based on my income tax records for the previous 2 years. Once your tax filings are in order you should be good for most purposes but until then I guess its going to be a bit tough. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear but it does get better once it starts showing on your tax records and you keep your debt to income ratio in check.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Hulk for this post:
 
  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received



emily28 View Post
I couldn't figure out where to post this, but I suppose it could be considered a "beginner" type of problem so I landed here.

Basically I secured a loan for a car.

Now they requested a pay stub, I don't know quite what to give them, I make around 4k a month day trading, I offered to just show them my account to see that I had enough in there to cover the loan and then some if for some reason I needed to pay it off all at once or something. But that didn't work, and they still need a pay stub.

How does this work for self employed people? Is there a proper website where you can present what you essentially pay yourself month to month and get a sort of pay stub formatted from that? thing is its not like i have a salary, whatever I earn trading thats what I get to live off of.

A good chunk of the population is self employed, and a fair amount obviously consists of day traders, so I was just wondering if anyone here had dealt with this situation.

I'm self-employed and I've had similar experiences with the bank.

1. First and foremost, I have to tell you the words that you probably don't want to hear: withholding information about your income borders on credit fraud, and if you find yourself describing your trading profits as "$4k per month" on average without a tax return, chances are, you're being dishonest with yourself. I had that feeling once: I was a physics major in a very expensive city. In my sophomore year, I was looking for off-campus housing and I was asked to show a paystub indicating a monthly pay of 3.5x the monthly rent, or 6 months of a guarantor's bank account statement showing average balance exceeding 5 years of rent. I had neither - unlike my friends who went into consulting and tech internships, I was making a meager amount in the summer, and my parents had saved up for exactly 3 more years of college on the assumption that my scholarships/financial aid would pay off most of it. The natural instinct was to find not share this information and cook some paperwork describing my 'college fund' as a monthly salary somehow - but looking back, I realize that this instinct was really a manifest of the sub-consciousness that my family's finances were in bad shape.

2. Identifying yourself as a "self-employed trader" or "day trader" is going to make it much more difficult for you to obtain credit. This is a lesser issue for personal credit in my experience, but if you plan to start a disregarded LLC trading entity, trust me, incorporating an entity and starting a business relationship with a bank and describing your entity as a "trading firm", "hedge fund" or "investment adviser" is a death knell. At the first bank that I opened my firm's checking/savings account with, our business credit application actually failed right away with the rejection letter explaining that our personal guarantor's credit score was high but the type of business was the reason for our rejection. We switched banks quickly for service reasons, but at the second bank, the manager actually asked me if I could describe my business as something else. As an example, he said that there was a shop selling adult toys came in recently and had a quick credit approval for $200,000 in balances while a "trader" had $2,000,000 and a solid history and was rejected. My friend had $1,500,000 in liquid cash as average balance and was rejected for a $150,000 loan.

3. As pointed out, your mileage will vary with banks and type of credit application, so your best choices may differ from mine. In most cases, tax returns and an accountant's statement are your best line of defense. Certain banks, e.g. Silicon Valley Bank, are self-employment-friendly, and are easier to obtain credit at.

4. Brokerage PnL statements may work but I have only tried that once before, and to no avail - this was at an early stage when I did not have tax returns relating to partnership returns.


Hulk View Post
Its a tough situation. I have been self-employed for about 5 years although my primary source of income is not from trading. During the first 2 years, I was denied left and right for every small little thing. But it got better after that and last year, I purchased a car for my wife and I was able to secure a loan based on my income tax records for the previous 2 years. Once your tax filings are in order you should be good for most purposes but until then I guess its going to be a bit tough. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear but it does get better once it starts showing on your tax records and you keep your debt to income ratio in check.

5. @Hulk's post above is the one I have to emphasize the most. The first 1-2 years of self-employment are the most difficult and there's nothing much you can do about it. My colleagues had the same experience. We had all just left considerably high-paying jobs, from reputable financial firms, with impeccable credit scores - but we couldn't get credit on our business using any of our credentials as a personal guarantee. We just locked up a significant amount of cash in secured deposit and built up our credit relationship.

Your bank relationship manager is there to help you and maintain your confidentiality. Besides, the people approving credit are in a completely different department. You should just be honest about your financial situation and ask what's the best strategy in your case, OK? If you are finding it difficult to do so, you need to find a new bank.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to artemiso for this post:
 
  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Manchester, NH
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: thinkorswim
Broker/Data: TD Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 902 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 603 given, 1,785 received

Also, about generating a paystub, first are foremost, I would recommend that a bona fide business entity with a federal tax identification number (EIN) exists before you do that, otherwise you could be identified as committing fraud. After you have an EIN, ADP or any other accounting software (QuickBooks, Advent) is common for creating a paystub. It seems that cost-savings are important, so you should honestly write yourself an offer letter and create your own paystub out of a free online template. In that case, do yourself a favor and create a nice looking logo (pick a nice font, it doesn't need a graphical component) and create a nice letterhead with business address and contact information in the footer - that helps a lot.

If you are asked further to prove that your business is bona fide, a strategy that has worked for me, was to show the official letters of engagement with my domestic and offshore lawyers and say that they represent us legally - those show some kind of documented proof that we had laid a $100,000 retainer and also no one likes to call up a huge law firm to accuse your business of being fake. This strategy has worked especially well when we tried leasing apartments/long-term hotel stays as 'agents' for our business.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to artemiso for this post:
 
  #15 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Birmingham UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Meta + TradeInterceptor + FXCM
Favorite Futures: DAX ( GBPAUD if moving )
 
Posts: 336 since May 2014
Thanks: 7 given, 64 received

In the UK you could in theory, setup a LTD company, then you pay yourself a hourly wage as a trader so it's a fixed wage then take that from trading profits, LTD Company rules mean your techincally employeed, but you'll need a company secretary and other expenses and you'll still need to build 2 years of history from that company.

Reply With Quote
 
  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Erie,Pa
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja, Oanda
Broker/Data: Oanda-practice demo
Favorite Futures: GBP/AUD...wild ride
 
missionatsea's Avatar
 
Posts: 45 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 95 given, 34 received

Stub

:car: Owner operator as freight expediter. Banks want to see money owed to the government on tax return as proof of income. If you are pulling in 4 g's a month, you have the patience to save for decent wheels. Also look for the buy here, pay here that has service. They can get solid vehicles on repo. Best of luck.

Reply With Quote
 
  #17 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Melbourne FL, USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TC2000
Favorite Futures: stocks
 
Posts: 117 since Jul 2014
Thanks: 11 given, 49 received

If you're making that kind of money trading, why are you going out to buy a car with a loan?

Just save your money, build up your trading bank, and buy a car in cash when the time comes.

Reply With Quote
 
  #18 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Birmingham UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Meta + TradeInterceptor + FXCM
Favorite Futures: DAX ( GBPAUD if moving )
 
Posts: 336 since May 2014
Thanks: 7 given, 64 received


Carrerain4 View Post
If you're making that kind of money trading, why are you going out to buy a car with a loan?

Just save your money, build up your trading bank, and buy a car in cash when the time comes.


It might be a 30K car and only have $500 per month spare to be fair, so 5 years of saving.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > I had a pay stub request for a loan, I day trade so i pay myself.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you really need to pay for it? Big Mike Hire a Consultant or Programmer 0 January 24th, 2013 03:52 AM
How to pay for services Big Mike Hire a Consultant or Programmer 0 January 24th, 2013 03:13 AM
Pay your bills ! kbit Jokes 0 January 25th, 2012 07:39 PM
China Insolvency Wave Begins As Nation's Biggest Provincal Borrowers "Defer" Loan Pay Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 December 26th, 2011 03:10 AM
Pay your TAXES!!!! incometrade Traders Hideout 4 August 27th, 2010 10:21 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-17 in 0.13 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.113.250