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Newbie Question about Day Trading
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Newbie Question about Day Trading

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2014
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

Newbie Question about Day Trading

I've been investing for quite a while, but mostly in mutual funds/options, and started trying to teach myself to day trade on stock games online based off the market. Since I am in college I was trying to be realistic, only investing around $7,000, but i find myself risking a lot more due to the small investment. I know you need a minimum of $25,000 to day trade(atleast in the US), but I thought only investing 7-10k would be conservative. Anyways, I made $4,800 today and $2,700 on the simulator day trading penny stocks, but now I feel like I'll learn better when it's my own money being traded. The only problem is I do not have $25,000. I hear a lot about kids in college trying out day trading, succeeding and failing, but I don't understand where they get the money. I know you can borrow the money, but can you only borrow a little and never actually use it? What other ways can you get the money?

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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I always tell new people to spend the next year or two learning as much as they can about the market, while at the same time working 1 or 2 jobs to save as much capital as possible.

My theory is the harder it is to obtain capital in the first place, the better your decisions will be when you go to trade with it.

Dumb money and easy money usually lose in the markets.

Good Luck!

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #4 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2014
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received


kevinkdog View Post
I always tell new people to spend the next year or two learning as much as they can about the market, while at the same time working 1 or 2 jobs to save as much capital as possible.

My theory is the harder it is to obtain capital in the first place, the better your decisions will be when you go to trade with it.

Dumb money and easy money usually lose in the markets.

Good Luck!

Ya, I have been selling a lot of my belongings on ebay/craigslist while I also have a job for the summer. I'm hoping to work with my grandfather, who is a financial planner and to learn as much as I can.

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  #5 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 2,388 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,139 given, 4,387 received
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bcrew13 View Post
Ya, I have been selling a lot of my belongings on ebay/craigslist while I also have a job for the summer. I'm hoping to work with my grandfather, who is a financial planner and to learn as much as I can.

Great! Just remember that financial planning and day trading are really polar opposites. Plus, day trading is not a good career choice for probably 99% of people out there - most get wiped out trying.

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #6 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
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kevinkdog View Post
Plus, day trading is not a good career choice for probably 99% of people out there - most get wiped out trying.

I agree, I'm not set on day trading my career choice until I have experienced and learned more in the art, though it interests me a great deal as I do want to go into investing of some sort. And though day trading and financial planning are very different, it will at least put me in a place where I can learn more about the market and research into it. I tend to like to work alone, so day trading might just end up being what I am good at.

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  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago Illinois USA
 
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Buddy...

the 25,000 req and the pattern day trading rule (Reg T) as they apply to equities do not apply in the futures markets. While I would not call 7,000 bucks over capitalized you can find legit brokers that will work with a great deal less. Not passing on if that is or is not a good idea for you personally.

wldman's view:

I do not buy into the idea of "learning" by reading books or paper trading till you are "good enough" even a little. Open a futures account with a reputable firm, deposit $2000 and trade the M6E...that is the e-micro euro fx. A one lot trades at $1.25 per tick and there is reasonable liquidity. Skin in the game is the best way to gauge how you will respond emotionally in various situations. Do not fall into the trap of thinking you need more knowledge or more practice. Most of all develop your own ideas and structure them around what works for you.

Dan


Last edited by wldman; February 20th, 2014 at 10:26 PM. Reason: grammer
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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago Illinois USA
 
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wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,077 since Aug 2011
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Don't be afraid...

you guys should knock that $h!t off and talk positivity with a new guy. Your fears and your beliefs are not the only or the true story of trading as a vocation. Yes, many fail. If you want to fail let fear and indecision rule. If you want to fail study failure. Do what the majority do and you will get the same result.

You have your whole damn life ahead of you. This is the time to give everything you have to making it trading. If you cant master the trade or master your emotion and you blow out...BFD $2,000 is NOTHING compared to what you pay per semester for tuition. Go for it. Separate yourself from the pack and be someone in the world.

Work two or three jobs to build up capital...my buttocks. When do you stop building capital? When you have enough? What is enough? Are you tracking with that? Enough is for guys that want to work two three jobs...that is an employee attitude. Forget that. There are still three paths to a shit ton of money , maybe four. The maybe is...you can marry into it. The other three are real estate, market speculation, and equity ownership in a business.

You either have what it takes to make it happen, to find your way or you do not. If you don't that is no big deal. Take your shot kid and keep your eyes closed to anyone and anything that says you can't

DB

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  #9 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2014
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

Thanks wldman, I think I'll take your advice and try to learn the futures game. I'm pretty excited to get into it.

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  #10 (permalink)
Hi Mom!
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra
Favorite Futures: Gold, Oil
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 
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wldman View Post
the 25,000 req and the pattern day trading rule (Reg T) as they apply to equities do not apply in the futures markets. While I would not call 7,000 bucks is not over capitalized you can find legit brokers that will work with a great deal less. Not passing on if that is or is not a good idea for you personally.

wldman's view:

I do not buy into the idea of "learning" by reading books or paper trading till you are "good enough" even a little. Open a futures account with a reputable firm, deposit $2000 and trade the M6E...that is the e-micro euro fx. A one lot trades at $1.25 per tick and there is reasonable liquidity. Skin in the game is the best way to gauge how you will respond emotionally in various situations. Do not fall into the trap of thinking you need more knowledge or more practice. Most of all develop your own ideas and structure them around what works for you.

Dan

I agree with this wholeheartedly. You don't need to have a lot to get started. In fact, you probably have enough right now. With the appropriate instrument as wldman has suggested you can learn without blowing yourself up in the first week. The quicker you can get in there and find out how you react when real money is at risk the quicker you will find out the things you need to work on. Don't fall into the beginner's cycle of reading book after book, trying endless indicators and systems, backtesting, and sim trading. All those things have their place, but they won't teach you how to trade.

Am I suggesting a cannonball into the deep end? No, you have to do your own due diligence and find what works for you. Just as everyone has a different fingerprint, everyone has a trading style that they feel comfortable with. You are the only one that can find out what it is. I would also strongly recommend spending the money on an elite membership to this site. You can learn a ton just on this forum. I would also recommend Big Mike's webinar "Where to start as a trader". I hope this helps!

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