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Intro, just discovered Emini trading, loving it
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Intro, just discovered Emini trading, loving it

  #11 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Jindřichův Hradec, Czech Republic
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Optimus Trading Group
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 22 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 14 given, 28 received

How long have you traded on sim before putting in a real money? Don't do that, it is waste of money and you psychological capital. Trading is not easy at all.

First question is to ask yourself if you have an edge in the markets, that is proven to work and you have strong belief in it. You have to be consistent with this edge. Second question is if you have strong self-confidence in yourself and your edge. Are you able to stick to it and execute it on daily basis? Third question si money management. Your focus should be on protecting capital and keeping in the game. With your account size and markets you are trading, this cannot be achieved. You need to use wider stop, which means around 5% of your account and that is unsustainable.

My advice is to step away for a while. This is a game for real pros. You need to become one in order to beat others. Practise on sim like it is real money. Don't forgett on journaling, preparation, and focus on getting better and better. You'll find out how complex this business is.

If you know all of this, just skip this post, but I didn't read about the level of your expertise.

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  #12 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Zurich/Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Index Futures
 
Croni's Avatar
 
Posts: 34 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received

What I got so far basically translates to "Stop trading live, you're wasting your money"... I considered what all of you are saying, but still got to the conclusion, that I have to live and learn myself if it is indeed not a good idea at this stage to trade live.

Maybe I will humbly admit you all were right in a few months from now, maybe not. Time will tell, I guess.

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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
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Croni View Post
What I got so far basically translates to "Stop trading live, you're wasting your money"... I considered what all of you are saying, but still got to the conclusion, that I have to live and learn myself if it is indeed not a good idea at this stage to trade live.

Maybe I will humbly admit you all were right in a few months from now, maybe not. Time will tell, I guess.

I'd suggest to make one trade a day that's based on an adequate signal that aligns to your method and then switch to sim. Or, Maybe find an instrument where you can risk less like forex or micro futures. If you only make one trade a day and stick to your initial stop then you won't lose much over time. Limiting the amount of trades you making will develop both discipline and the psychology of dealing with risking real money. Some things you definitely don't want to do is over trade, not obey your initial stop loss, or risk more than a small fraction of your account on any given trade. Good luck. Where there's a will, there's a way.


Last edited by Itchymoku; January 23rd, 2014 at 01:20 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Somerville, MA USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja and t4
Favorite Futures: CL, GC
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 10 received

Croni,

I don't know you and I won't pretend to. I know me and I see the same excitement in you that I saw in me when I first started out. I'll say this: If I had it to do again I'd pick a single system and trade the crap out of it using market replay on ninja. there are place out there that allow you to download months of data in one swoop.

I'd blast through a year's worth of data fast forwarding through the times when the markets were dead and trade a few days worth every single day and even more on my days off.

I'd take copious notes on why things were failing and I wouldn't rewind the tape. I'd keep doing this untilI was confident and reactionary in a good way and then I'd open an itty bitty account and see if I blew it up because my mental state shifted when I went from demo to real and then I'd retreat and figure that out too before venturing back.

I can't say it'll do anything for you, but at the very least you can have you fun and save the 5k for later after you have some extra screen time under your belt.

Still, it's your money. do as you will.

Best of luck.

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  #15 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Zurich/Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Index Futures
 
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Posts: 34 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received


Inversehelix View Post
Croni,

I don't know you and I won't pretend to. I know me and I see the same excitement in you that I saw in me when I first started out. I'll say this: If I had it to do again I'd pick a single system and trade the crap out of it using market replay on ninja. there are place out there that allow you to download months of data in one swoop.

I'd blast through a year's worth of data fast forwarding through the times when the markets were dead and trade a few days worth every single day and even more on my days off.

I'd take copious notes on why things were failing and I wouldn't rewind the tape. I'd keep doing this untilI was confident and reactionary in a good way and then I'd open an itty bitty account and see if I blew it up because my mental state shifted when I went from demo to real and then I'd retreat and figure that out too before venturing back.

I can't say it'll do anything for you, but at the very least you can have you fun and save the 5k for later after you have some extra screen time under your belt.

Still, it's your money. do as you will.

Best of luck.

Excellent advice, in fact I learnt stuff and lost some money making mistakes that I could have made first on SIM without losing the money. I might actually switch gears and doing some SIM screen time before going back live.

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  #16 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Somerville, MA USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja and t4
Favorite Futures: CL, GC
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 10 received

Might not be a bad idea.

also, I forgot one. I'd take some of the money I'd have saved by not rushing in and buy a copy of "mind over markets". It's not the best written book and the concepts require *a lot* of practice to really master but if you get it down you can really parlay that knowledge into being a day-trading rockstar.

As usual, YMMV.

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Favorite Futures: JDAM
 
tturner86's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,784 since Sep 2013
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Croni View Post
Excellent advice, in fact I learnt stuff and lost some money making mistakes that I could have made first on SIM without losing the money. I might actually switch gears and doing some SIM screen time before going back live.

SIM is great, but you really learn the lesson when it is real money on the line.

Use SIM to get the kinks out of your system and strategy then go live as small as possible until you can get consistent.

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  #18 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Zurich/Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Index Futures
 
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Posts: 34 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received


tturner86 View Post
SIM is great, but you really learn the lesson when it is real money on the line.

Use SIM to get the kinks out of your system and strategy then go live as small as possible until you can get consistent.

Yup, that's more or less the plan!

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Stavanger, Norway
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Ninjabroker, Continuum
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, Bonds
 
Posts: 675 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 905 given, 1,769 received

You've gotten some very sound advice, but seem determined to try the real deal without much practice. I'm not gonna tell you it cant be done, but the odds are stacked very badly against you. And this is after all a probabilities game. You're already willingly and knowingly rolling the dice when you know its against all common sense.

Losing money is not a good way to learn trading. You can chalk it up to "tuition fees" like so many before you, but you'd be better off getting an elite membership and reading what successful guys had to endour before you. What you are doing seems reckless and unnecessary, but primarily you risk building negative assosiations to trading and taking losses. Consider how much time you could be wasting chasing the wrong questions/answers, and the amount of time those errors might cost you once you have to unlearn them.

Anyway Start with M6E, NQ, or something similar. If you wont practice patience then i hope at least you'll practice discipline by setting a sensible max level you are willing to lose before switching to SIM.

Maybe check out tturners journal, https://futures.io/trading-journals/30151-2014-price-action-trading.html

I know which rookie i would be placing my bets on...

None the less, best of luck!

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  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: F-16CM-50
Favorite Futures: JDAM
 
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Posts: 5,784 since Sep 2013
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Read these, re-write them for you, print and put on wall next to your computer.

10 Laws of Trading
1 - Trade Small. Large wins require large exposure. Don't take large risk until your build a buffer.
2 - When in doubt, Get Out! Deal with reality. If it doesn't perform, exit trade immediately!
3 - Learn the difference between gambling and trading. No overnights, no positions before market opens, no positions before major market news.
4 - Don't add to losers. Cost Averaging is BS and will kill you. If you want out, get out. Scale into winners.
5 - DON'T OVERTRADE. Trade more only as you get experience and only if you are winning. Never trade more to make up for losses. Limit number of trades per day. (Currently setting 2 trades daily for first week of live trading.)
6 - You must use stop losses. - NEVER MOVE STOP AGAINST YOU. STOP ONLY MOVES FORWARD TO REDUCE RISK / LOCK IN PROFIT.
7 - Have a daily loss limit. 1-2% risk capital. Have a daily profit limit. Also 1-2%.
8 - Be logical, not emotional. Do not get angry, do not get excited.
9 - Do not trade if their are computer problems, market problems, severe weather or external forces that will distract you from your trading (kids).
10 -Be disciplined. Follow your plan daily.

Old Korean Trading Principal
DON'T LOSE MONEY
If you do lose money, lose very little money.

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