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Trading with no margin?
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Trading with no margin?

  #1 (permalink)
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Trading with no margin?

Hi all. I've known about trading since the mid 90s, and recently the passion has caught fire. I've been studying my brains out for a quite a while now, reading books, viewing webinars, taking courses.. absorbing every piece of information I can get my hands on. I started paper trading at TDAmeritrade, which I've been doing very very well at (I treat it with utmost seriousness as if a real account). All of my testing/studying so far has been in the FX and Futures markets (although I think my techniques could be applied to ANY market), and I KNOW that I have found my calling in life. I am extremely confident in my ability and believe I have the right mindset and personality. Most of the necessary qualities I have already learned from being a professional poker player. I know I will succeed and I feel I was made to do this, I just don't have the startup capital right now. I am considering applying for a small business loan, although I'm not sure the bank wouldn't see this as anything more than a "gambling" venture even though I know it is not. It is sheer mathematics and risk/reward ratio and to me it is practically guaranteed. I am wondering what types of things I can learn to trade WITHOUT a margin account... I know I can only make 3 trades per week to avoid the pattern day trader rule, but at least I could get my account going. Anyways, my question is:

Suppose I have a $500 account, what types of markets could I be looking to trade until I get my tax refund?

I really don't want to sell my drum set to come up with the $2,500 but if that is the only option I am more than positive that I could easily make that money back very quickly to buy a new one (assuming I could trade futures). Your thoughts and suggestions much appreciated.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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Just some info


Actually, the "pattern day trading rule doesn't apply to futures trading.

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  #4 (permalink)
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jamiecassar View Post
Hi all. I've known about trading since the mid 90s, and recently the passion has caught fire. I've been studying my brains out for a quite a while now, reading books, viewing webinars, taking courses.. absorbing every piece of information I can get my hands on. I started paper trading at TDAmeritrade, which I've been doing very very well at (I treat it with utmost seriousness as if a real account). All of my testing/studying so far has been in the FX and Futures markets (although I think my techniques could be applied to ANY market), and I KNOW that I have found my calling in life. I am extremely confident in my ability and believe I have the right mindset and personality. Most of the necessary qualities I have already learned from being a professional poker player. I know I will succeed and I feel I was made to do this, I just don't have the startup capital right now. I am considering applying for a small business loan, although I'm not sure the bank wouldn't see this as anything more than a "gambling" venture even though I know it is not. It is sheer mathematics and risk/reward ratio and to me it is practically guaranteed. I am wondering what types of things I can learn to trade WITHOUT a margin account... I know I can only make 3 trades per week to avoid the pattern day trader rule, but at least I could get my account going. Anyways, my question is:

Suppose I have a $500 account, what types of markets could I be looking to trade until I get my tax refund?


I really don't want to sell my drum set to come up with the $2,500 but if that is the only option I am more than positive that I could easily make that money back very quickly to buy a new one (assuming I could trade futures). Your thoughts and suggestions much appreciated.

my first thought, is if you are a "professional poker player", why are you broke?

my 28yo son's friend is a "professional poker player" and if i had his money, i'd burn mine.

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  #5 (permalink)
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I haven't played poker for several years, I have a girlfriend now and we have a new baby. I still love poker, but I can't even think about spending that amount of time away from home right now

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  #6 (permalink)
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I thought I couldn't trade futures without a margin?

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  #7 (permalink)
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jamiecassar View Post
I haven't played poker for several years, I have a girlfriend now and we have a new baby. I still love poker, but I can't even think about spending that amount of time away from home right now

couple of things:

1) performance on sim trading is meaningless

2) you are woefully under-capitalized and over-pressured

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  #8 (permalink)
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Trading on a shoestring

There are a handful of futures brokers that will open an account with a minimum deposit of $500 and have intraday margins of $500 or less on certain futures contracts.

Generally it is not such a good idea to do that. There is no room for error, as mentioned in previous post, item 2.

"If we don't loosen up some money, this sucker is going down." -GW Bush, 2008
“Lack of proof that something is true does not prove that it is not true - when you want to believe.” -Humpty Dumpty, 2014
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.”
Prof. Albert Bartlett
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  #9 (permalink)
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You can trade futures without margin, for example to trade the S&P e-mini (ES) without margin you would need about $92,000 in your account.

But the point of trading with margin is you don't need $92K in your account some brokers let you trade with only a few thousand in the account. You need strict risk management trading with margin or you will be wiped out in no time.

Seems you need to do some more research on how to trade futures, good luck!

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  #10 (permalink)
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tigertrader View Post
couple of things:

1) performance on sim trading is meaningless

2) you are woefully under-capitalized and over-pressured

Yes, I agree, but this is the start of something grand, and waaaay less risky than a poker game.

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