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Do educated traders make it harder to make a profit
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Do educated traders make it harder to make a profit

  #41 (permalink)
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wldman View Post
I went to an interview here in Chicago at a very highly renowned hedge fund started buy a brilliant Harvard guy while he was still at Harvard.

Is this Citadel?

Citadel is a large organization, with many roles to be played where intellectual capacity is not an edge, e.g. business development.

If you're on the trading team for Citadel's Tactical Fund though, nearly everyone has a PhD. The only one guy I knew who didn't have a PhD had earned 3 degrees and 2 minors from MIT in 4 years, and later left for Getco. And two network engineers who had M.Eng's instead, if I recall - but that's on the infrastructure side of Tactical.

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  #42 (permalink)
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My point was...

that the thread never really defined trading.

The academics, such as yourself, rightly claim certain areas of a very diverse business. Others, such as the legendary Tom Baldwin, for instance, with a masters in ag business, are by no means intellectual elites. One of my CBOE mentors was happy to be done with academia after high school, he was easily over a million dollars a year for perhaps 30 years.

So, I guess I could be defending my own insecurity, but in my opinion good traders make it harder to make a profit.

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  #43 (permalink)
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artemiso View Post
You shouldn't say something like that unless you intend to severely discredit yourself here. A quick search shows that the past history of your posts suggest that you have a personal agenda against me, and it doesn't take much effort to put two and two together and conclude that you're finding fault with me for anything but honest reasons. (And in fact, quite on the contrary, I have explicitly spoken up to defend you on this forum before.)

In the prior thread about HFT, others reached similar conclusions and expressed in more direct language what I again pointed out, as it still seems to hold. Speaking for myself, I dislike what I perceive as deception, especially when the frequency of it gets high.


artemiso View Post
I don't comprehend what you're saying over here.

But I get this part, and believe that your reasoning is faulty. Here's why. There's an asymmetry between the group who generate the best rolling 10 month absolute returns and the "worst managers": The first population is very small, while the second population is very large. And I managed to show that 100% of the top 20 managers all graduated from the top 30 universities.

On the other hand, the worst that a manager can perform is to completely close down, so going by the mantra that 4 to 10% of hedge funds close per year, there are at least 400 to 1,000 managers who form the bottom group alone. You would need to show that the bottom 400 to 1,000 managers all come from within the top 30 universities to prove me wrong using that line of reasoning.

Here, you changed your argument from large hedge funds to all of them. "Worst managers" was a slight irony of mine you took at face value, to change that part to the shut-down of 1000 funds. I made it extremely clear what I meant: a 20 manager sample ranked by a 10-month snapshot of return, be it ascendingly or descendingly sorted, will exhibit prestigious school tendency due to $AUM alone. Yet you claim you "don't comprehend".


artemiso View Post
1. It's not an "unfair feed advantage" when everyone has access to the same proprietary feeds if they pay for it and there's plenty of space in Mahwah. That's like calling "first class passengers" out for an "unfair seating advantage"...

2. In this instance, no trading firm was responsible for the mistakes made by NYSE. Clearly, there's a reason why the SEC penalized NYSE and not a group of trading firms for this.

3. I still don't see what's considered frontrunning here. No matter how fast you receive it, a market data feed only broadcasts past events, not future events.

4. If you think that they are practicing anything unfair, I would invite you to share your comments, as I can connect you with their legal team, if you PM me.

No individual firms were named in that link, not even in the user comments. Who is the legal team of HFT as a whole? Is that you?

Not only is it unfair but illegal to slow down public feeds while having proprietary feeds unaffected. To contrast just one of your flawed analogies with what actually fits here: This is like the mafia demanding payment for protection -- from themselves only, or else they will be the ones to beat you up.

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  #44 (permalink)
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Outlier View Post
Speaking for myself, I dislike what I perceive as deception, especially when the frequency of it gets high.

It seems to me that you're taking things too personally. It's not productive for me continue engaging your posts, as there's a strong indication that you'll rather argue trivial matters rather than provide any new content. We're learning nothing new from you.


Outlier View Post
I made it extremely clear what I meant: a 20 manager sample ranked by a 10-month snapshot of return, be it ascendingly or descendingly sorted, will exhibit prestigious school tendency due to $AUM alone. Yet you claim you "don't comprehend".

Your standards of clarity are certainly below mine, when you write insensible sentences like this:


Outlier View Post
"Worst managers" was a slight irony of mine you took at face value, to change that part to the shut-down of 1000 funds.

No idea what you're talking about, to be honest.


Outlier View Post
No individual firms were named in that link, not even in the user comments. Who is the legal team of HFT as a whole? Is that you?

I was referring to the NYSE.


Outlier View Post
Not only is it unfair but illegal to slow down public feeds while having proprietary feeds unaffected. To contrast just one of your flawed analogies with what actually fits here: This is like the mafia demanding payment for protection -- from themselves only, or else they will be the ones to beat you up.

Again, it seems that you are taking issue with the NYSE, whom I remind you, are the ones "collecting payment", not us. I don't see what it has to do with accusations that we practice some form of frontrunning.

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  #45 (permalink)
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@artemiso

Worst managers in a slightly ironic sense as I went by your standards even though I disagree with them. It is insufficient in my opinion to come up with best/worst 20 managers using a 10-month returns ranking. I already made that clear in my first reply in this thread. I wonder where "any new content" is in your post.

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  #46 (permalink)
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@Outlier:

Perhaps you should reassess how you spend your time.

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  #47 (permalink)
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As my last post on this topic, I will share today's news item:

RBS has lost all the £46bn pumped in by the taxpayer - Telegraph

The Royal Bank of Scotland has lost 107 billion dollars in the last 6 years. This was all the public money what taxpayers pumped in to save the toxic assets and the bank. Now we can all agree that at such a famous institution all the top notch guys are very educated and smart. In deed they are so smart that:

"Despite the loss RBS said it had put aside £576m to pay staff bonuses for 2013."

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  #48 (permalink)
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I saw this posted by someone who claimed 35 years of profitability into senior age.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3930047#post3930047

But I wonder if he means by having to "scale" means he's averaging down a massive entry with his size.
As he seems to be ditching fighting the intraday short term price action "scalping" in favor of
some form of swing trading on futures and settling for a "35 to 40%" w/l rate. Well, may be interesting to the OP
with his concerns about too many smart educated (as in trading-educated) traders individual manual retail, algo, institutional or otherwise, taking all the "pie" which I guess he's really asking if daytrading as a retailer is worth it anymore as a veteran or starting new.
Or the post is just baloney.


Last edited by Cloudy; March 2nd, 2014 at 07:05 AM.
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