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Lot of doubts..
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Lot of doubts..

  #1 (permalink)
Trying to Learn Trading
Monterrey, Nuevo León México
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
canorivera's Avatar
 
Posts: 15 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 39 given, 6 received

Lot of doubts..

Hi Everybody,

I'm new in this business, I don't even know the reality of trading I have been playing for about a week trading with ES using NT7 with Zen-Fire, I post my today's trading report hopeing that you help me to understand the reality of this, I mean how much I can really get trading this way because here I don't see any comissions or other deductions that may apply.

I know this is just for a day but want to have a real idea of this.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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canorivera View Post
Hi Everybody,

I'm new in this business, I don't even know the reality of trading I have been playing for about a week trading with ES using NT7 with Zen-Fire, I post my today's trading report hopeing that you help me to understand the reality of this, I mean how much I can really get trading this way because here I don't see any comissions or other deductions that may apply.

I know this is just for a day but want to have a real idea of this.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

to add commission, tool, option, check apply commission box, ok. then tool, option, commission tab, look for your data feed enter minimum amount, ok. May have to log back on ninja for commission to take effect.

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  #4 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Big Mike's Avatar
 
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Welcome to the site.

First bit of advice - traders that ask "how much can I make" are traders that will blow up their account in no time.

The question you should be asking is "how much can I lose".

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
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  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I think unless you truly love this stuff you should probably walk away. You will go through the meat grinder and get chewed up and the only way to survive is to be 100% commited. It is that commitment that will pick you up when you get knocked on your butt and motivate you to learn from your mistakes and press on to eventually become profitable. I guess this probably applies to most everything in life but it is worth noting.
.
Spend some time and go through the beginner section and see all the advice littered throughout and pay heed to that advice. As Mike says be of the "how much could I lose" mindset and learn a methodology on a demo/paper before you risk real money. Even after you can consistantly profit on paper go slow when you go live because it's at that point when things change psychologically. Speaking of that you might want to visit the psychological forums and get an idea of how to deal with those issues. Anyway best of luck and don't hesitate to ask questions here, there are a lot of people that have been(or are going )through it.

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  #6 (permalink)
Trying to Learn Trading
Monterrey, Nuevo León México
 
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canorivera's Avatar
 
Posts: 15 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 39 given, 6 received

Thanks

Thanks everybody,

I really want to learn this that's why I'm asking all my doubts, this is the best place I have found for doing it.
I ask how much can i earn because, being honest, its what this is about, I know that I can lose a lot, in my short experience I have noticed that when I mistake taking bad tradings I lose more and faster so thats why today I studied more my movements and only 1 was bad.

Thanks again to everybody in this forum and will keep bothering.

BTW: I did what Cory told me but nothing, but anyways I have not idea how commisions are applyed LOL...

Best Regards

Alex

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  #7 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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Can, Im pretty green myself, but I would suggest this.......gain a clear understanding of how the various markets and instruments are related. Most people attempt to learn a particular system without first acquiring this simple knowledge. This helps predict movement (sometimes!)

And i will echo Mike's message....The guy teaching me has plenty of cash but still gets irritated if he loses 20 bucks in a trade. Its all about not losing, disciplined trading brings the money. Good luck!

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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
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If you trade carefully and disciplined (learned to accept stop losses) with a small account, say 5k, and stay with 1 contract, it is possible to make 20k at least a year. If you increase contracts like say 1 car every 10k and able to keep the discipline , supposedly you can make six figures. Most likely very difficult in today's market unless you know how to adapt to the fear news driven market these days. One can get to a point making 1k a day for a while, but not be able to handle the larger losses using more contracts eventually not accepting stop losses and a losing day and blowing up an account. The real winners get their discipline down so good they can make 5 to 7 figures in a session and probably don't post about it anymore. But even so , there can be just as equal losing sessions. And it requires consistency every day, sort of like having to inch around a mountain on a narrow ledge with one's back to the wall, and then repeating that everyday, always with a danger of a fall. Or like professional sports with one having to keep their edge day in and day out, and lasting as long as possible in a career before "burning out" or not able to maintain the edge anymore. As Al Brooks says, the edge is so fleeting in trading , it requires pinpointing it and often having to wait long periods in between before finding another opportunity.

What Big Mike says about "how much can I lose" refers to the #1 rule even Warren Buffet says about trading. i.e. "Don't lose money". What that means is learning how to manage your losses is the most important trading skill, because one loss not managed or planned for can margin call or decimate your account.

So as you learn trading systems , it may be wise to place great if not the greatest importance on stop loss plans. Where am I going to put the stop loss initially? How do I move the stoploss as the trade goes my way? What is my stoploss plan when I'm in an initially winning trade, but sudden news which the banksters get before everyone else by a few minutes suddenly makes price blow through my position the wrong way? What should I do when I psychologically can't follow my stop loss rules. Maybe quit trading for a day and brainstorm some new rules for stop losses.

I recall seeing on CNBC , they were asking a stock trader on the NYSE floor how he was trading. He said he had stopped trading for a couple of months and was waiting when things looked better to trade again. So it's also learning how to stay out of bad trading times and keeping profits gained from earlier whether it be an hour earlier, or days or weeks depending on time frame and what one trades. Sure an expert day trader can learn how to trade hard to trade periods, by why not make it easier on oneself.

Fat tails did a great analysis on "intraday volume and volatility" here (you have to be elite to see it though): https://futures.io/elite-circle/5242-intraday-seasonality-volatility-when-trade-when-not-trade.html

I have problem with sticking to stop losses myself. Now I try using an indicator "jtDlsetup" which shows where price is consolidated and where it's breaking out. If it's breaking out against my trade, then I tell myself my new rule is to close the trade immediately and accept the loss or place the stop loss right behind the border of the breakout area.Also simulate and keeping to stop losses accepting one might have a losing session. i.e. training to accept stoplosses with the goal of staying positive for the session or the week or the period of one's profit goal. I'm still working on it.

Here's a great ebook about the idea of "keep losses small" and "game of losing the least" rule: Phantom of the Pits - Preface


Last edited by Cloudy; December 5th, 2011 at 12:51 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)
 Vendor: protradered.blogspot.com 
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canorivera View Post
Hi Everybody,

I'm new in this business, I don't even know the reality of trading I have been playing for about a week trading with ES using NT7 with Zen-Fire, I post my today's trading report hopeing that you help me to understand the reality of this, I mean how much I can really get trading this way because here I don't see any comissions or other deductions that may apply.

I know this is just for a day but want to have a real idea of this.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

The REAL IDEA is that most likely you will not make a dime the first few years. The REAL IDEA is that most likely you will loose your first account, and probably the second. Most traders will loose about $20K or more before they realize that they are approaching this from the wrong place and in the wrong way. Statistically speaking, most all of us said and believed we were not part of the 95% of retail traders that loose money the first few years. It takes a while to realize that just by false belief that we have joined these ranks.
However, if you persevere, get your head coming from the right place, have the funds to weather the learning curve and rely mostly on yourself with the occasional help and educational period, you can make substantial gains. The amount you make will be commensurate with your trading skill and your trading personality.

As far as "trading this way" whatever trading strategy or method you applied to get these results, you need to be able to sustain it. If you can do that, then you may have a decent chance. This is no easy task. Do you even know what you did? Is it written down somewhere? Is it in your business and trading plan? Do you understand how to repeat it?

If I were to conclude any kind of opinion about your statements and questions I would agree with BM and others. You are starting off with the wrong questions, from the wrong place, with the wrong expectation. But then again.... I never believed I was part of the 95% until I had my head handed to me by Mr. Market Demon... more times than I care to think about.

Take it slow, research, research, test, test and believe in your trading results.

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  #10 (permalink)
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How much to risk



canorivera View Post
Hi Everybody,

I'm new in this business, I don't even know the reality of trading I have been playing for about a week trading with ES using NT7 with Zen-Fire, I post my today's trading report hopeing that you help me to understand the reality of this, I mean how much I can really get trading this way because here I don't see any comissions or other deductions that may apply.

I know this is just for a day but want to have a real idea of this.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

Just a suggestion; consider trading spot forex in order to learn the fundamentals of trading. Trading live is very different than trading with a demo account. Having small forex account allows you to trade live and get real world experience. After you mastered forex then you can move up to ES or 6E.

From a money perspective there is less monetary risk involved. A lot size of a 1000 = 10 cents a tick. A 100 tick loss equals a 10 dollar loss. Much easier to deal with than a 1200 dollar loss for the same 100 ticks on ES.

@kbit had it right; if you are not 100% committed walk away otherwise you end giving away your money who people that are 100% committed. . Like me!

Your question about how much you can make should be how much are you willing to lose? Ask yourself: Could you take 20 grand in crisp new 100 dollar bills and put it through the shredder without hesitation or emotion? How about 10,000? When you are able to answer this question honestly then you will have determined how much you are willing to risk. Now, divide that number by 2 and that should be good starting account size. After that then you can start determining what instrument you able to trade based on your account and risk appetite.

PS
The reason you divide by 2 is because when you blow up your first account you will be able to start over and re-fund it with the same amount.

Good Luck! And keep asking questions!

SD

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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