Thanks everybody for your help and recommendations, I'm finishing my first month trading the ES Mini after I starter this thread, I have been following the same method and looks positive, I have asked to some brokers and they say that I need a minimum of $1250 to trade 1 contract of the ES Mini but they recommend me to start with $2500 to be alive for 25 loosing points and that's what I want to try once I finish my practice in a couple of months I think I can risk this money to feel the reality and try my psychology in live trading, unfortunately I haven't found yet a broker where I can continue using NinjaTrader.
I will post next week my month trade results and I hope that somebody can review it and give me some feedback.
I should probably add, that looking at how much one can make most likely will come at a heavy cost. After having blown an account once if not more, there is light at the end of the tunnel with possibilities of making money in the amount I mentioned, but after some experience. I started in options and stock trading and it has taken me a long time(years) to realize most of the stuff I had learned about options for free and from books didn't really work in the real market. (good to be aware of what others have tried have not found too helpful: https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/12929-what-programs-have-you-bought-confess.html
So the first lesson about "how much can I lose" could also be rephrased "Learn to stop losing money". I had blown my first margin account on options when I first started trading. Since I started on futures about over a year ago, I have been margin called and they liquidated my positions decimating my account. So yes, another major lesson was enforced by the pain of losing money (hopefully for good). Sure, there are probably exceptions where one can start out in the 5%, like a son taught by a father who is a winning trader. Good luck on finding a mentor who will do everything and anything to turn one into a winning trader, and at little cost, otherwise one has to learn and find their own way however long it takes. As was mentioned starting live on a forex account can risk a much smaller account by trading micro or mini lots where one can just be trading 50 cents per tick. However the slippage and stop running and suspect brokers who trade against their clients is considered rampant due to the possible manipulation of the wider spread due to micro and min lots. But it might be a good experience nonetheless. I only tried it live for a few weeks then switched to futures.
If I may make a suggestion Carnivora, it would be to learn some fundamental price action. PA is good in that it helps gauge what the market is doing like being able to gauge the terrain, not a perfect method, but better than wondering why things didn't work out just based on a lagging indicator. If you haven't done so, I would suggest reading Al Brook's (Brooks Price Action - Home) and/or Lance Begg's (Your Trading Coach | Home) material. There are also review threads in the vendor category area. One could still use indicators along with PA, but starting with indicators only won't likely help one learn PA by itself. Good luck.
Last edited by Cloudy; December 7th, 2011 at 04:24 PM.
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I have reviewed your trade list and found a few anomalies and inconsistencies which you may want to examine. I have marked the more adverse trades with a red outline, and added a question mark around the more serious ones.
Consistency in approach - risk reward expectation, and decisions about just how much risk you will take sometimes cannot be written in stone. However, if you decide to take a lot of heat, then you need to decide how much reward you expect before you enter. If the trade proves to fail, then you need to also have some kind of loss control. Living to trade another day means you will survive. Gambling means you will loose a lot of money. Capital preservation first, profits second. So you need to also have some kind of trade failure event that you can identify and use to protect yourself against the gambling (hopeful) tendency.
Also, holding trades beyond the session or overnight will require full margin per contract. So, you need to consider this in your trading.
Most new traders fool themselves a lot.... This comes from unrealistic expectation that somehow it is easier to watch negative impact on your account without any worries. Nothing can be further from the truth. Sitting through a 10 point draw down, overnight, per contract is one thing. Trading as a rule for 1 point intra day is another. Mixing these types of trades is going to drive you nuts. Inconsistent loss acceptance ... sitting through 5 point draw down to get .5 point on 1 trade, and then 2 trades later taking a 5 point stop shows how inconsistent your approach to money management was. Maybe there was some reason?
So, carefully examine your trades. Define some hard rules for capital preservation, loss control, risk reward, and adequate funding.
Otherwise... you may discover that going to cash is like traveling to another galaxy where the natural laws of earth physics do not apply.
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You found the exact problem I have, I don't really know how the margin thing works that's why I changed from stops to just leave the position open overnight, when I used stops it was 90% sure that I will loose but when I left open positions I realized that many times Asia market will save me and I'll make some points.
"Also, holding trades beyond the session or overnight will require full margin per contract."
Can you please explain to me the exact meaning of this???
Alex - there is no shortcut to this and no easy way out. I highly recommend you go to your local library or bookstore and start reading and researching trading, the terminology and principles of futures and stock trading. Also, I suggest you contact a broker and get some information from him about margins and contract trading conditions and fees.
Basically, when you trade using a discount broker you are "renting" a contract on a temporary basis and a huge discount. In actuality, you are controlling the full value of that contract in the market for as long as you keep the trade open. The broker rents this contract to you on a conditional basis. That is you return it to him before the session close. So, unless you have made specific arrangements to continue to rent that contract past the session and overnight, you will need to cover the full value, and you will also need to cover the loss at full value. So, go and research from the broker you are considering his rates and this will tell you what you will need to have in your acccount.
The biggest mistake you have made to date is to think that you can trade without a stop and be able to withstand the draw down. Losing is part of the process. So decide if you want to approach this realistically and take the losses you need to take when you need to take them.
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Thanks Again Jaguar52, Actually I'm reading "Trading Futures for DUMMIES", I also started a trading seminar and have completed Level 1 of 3, I know how to trade but basically stocks and in a long term basis, next level will cover mid-term and finally we will see intra-day and short term in 3rd level, I will finish the seminar until April so I have time to make mistakes and learn from them, this month I will use stops and won't leave open positions to see how it goes.
Ok. Hope the seminar was not too expensive. In the beginning, you may want to just do the research yourself and save your money for when it will do you the most benefit. The beginning is just about research and learning principles and trading options such as stocks, FX, Futures, Options, etc. This kind of learning is available for free all over the place. Also, learning about different methods used by more popular traders and studying traders with some public and historic success is easily come by without spending money on this beginning education.
There will come a time when you may need more direct help with your trading. That is when you may need to spend some cash to study directly with someone, if you feel you are getting nowhere. There is a great deal of information available here in this forum, on just about everything you will need to know to get started and even get along a ways in your strategy development and trading attitude.
Once you have gathered enough information you may discover or decide what kind of trading appeals to you most and then start to focus your sim study on this.
At this point your sim trading seems without any clear goal or plan. So, while it is fun, everything you are doing now in regards to sim trading seems arbitrary and you may want to spend more effort on research and less on actual sim trading. Once you discover the trading type that appeals to you, then you will be able to sim trade with a clearly defined goal toward a clear proficiency level or qualifying level that will help you get to cash quicker and with more confidence.
Bottom line is that no matter what I or anyone else says, no two traders take the same journey. It is going to be up to you as to just how much influence you will allow yourself to be exposed to. Too much influence is as bad as too little sometimes. So, as you research other traders histories and personalities you may discover a type of trader that appeals to you more than others, and start your strategy and trading method development from there.
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