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Patak Trading Partners

  #7 (permalink)

Membership Permanently Revoked
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 221 given, 850 received

A few thoughts..

Tundi View Post
The only way a trader can become a prop trader for Patak is to pay $80 for a four week trial, in which one is evaluated on his success trading in Sim mode on the T4 trading platform (which has several limitations compared to other well known retail providers). If one is selected to join Patak, the fee is refunded; otherwise it is non-refundable. A trader can sign up for the trial, known as "Combine" as often as he wishes in the event he fails to get accepted as a Patak prop trader.

CTS T4 has limitations? care to elaborate what you would call limitations. The platform provides all the funcitonality that NT7 does pretty much. It is pretty fast, and it has basic charting. If you care about coding your own indi's that would be an issue, but if you are trading price action, SR, pivots, etc. It does the job just fine.

Also, $80 to prove that you can trade and the possibility of access to capital, is not bad a bad deal. If in fact aztrader09 is doing patak, he is learning quite a bit about himself when there is pressure and being evaluated while trading, which I am sure is well worth the 4 ticks on ES.

Tundi View Post
During Combine, if one losses $1000 in any given day trading a max of 5 contracts with a hypothetical $50K account, he will not be selected to become a prop trader. Anyone who has traded futures knows this is unreasonably restrictive and unrealistic. In effect, this is a 2% drawdown--a hurdle that easily is broken by even the very best of traders. In other words, the odds are stacked against the Combine subscriber from the starting line.

key thing here is that the max traded contracts if 5; it doesnt mean you have to trade 5 lines...just that you can go up to 5... if your money management tells you to trade less, then trade less.. $50K is a small account IMO, so 2%-3% loss for the day is what one should risk regardless... I dont know how you trade, but the way I see it is that if you are down $1K on a single trade, then you are doing something wrong.. whatever conditions caused you to enter the market are wrong and you are hoping... now, that might be different in you are trading 10-20 contracts.. a mere 1-2pt stop will kill you and take you out for the day, hence why one should not trade that many contracts with such small account. It is all based on your MM plan...

Tundi View Post
In addition, the prop trader is charged $2.40 r/t plus exchange fees. Ask yourself why Patak won't simply charge a token commission and pass along the same fees it pays as an exchange member rather than retail charges?

I dont know if they are passing the CME member exchange fees or not, one would assume they would if you are trading under their name. I have not see an agreement, so I cant comment too much, but keep in mind that MIRUS charges $2.10RT, and 30c RT is not much if that allows you to trade with OPM.

Tundi View Post
Should your account drop to $48K, you are demoted and have to go back to Combine to earn the right to become a prop trader again and pay an additional $80.

As it should be... no different than people going back to simulator when they are screwing up royally on their own account. Think about it... two losses with 5 contracts risking 4pts p/car.. he made $24 on those two trades in comms, but you lost me $2K?! I would certainly place you back in simm if that was my money too..

Tundi View Post
If your a profitable trader, you'd be better off borrowing money from your relatives, take out a home equity loan, or even use a credit card cash advance to fund your trading account and keep most of the profit for yourself.

If you are a profitable trader, you dont need Patak.. but it also depends what you mean by "profitable".. I would rather say consistenly profitable instead of just "profitable"... if you have a decent account from which to earn a living, which to me means $100K-$250K minimun, then you dont need patek and can lease a seat and pay peanuts when trading...

I would never recommend to anyone, and I do mean anyone, to take a HELOC or Borrow from their Credit cards or from their family to trade the futures markets... that is one certain way to go broker.. one should trake with at risk capital, not with money one is afraid to lose.

I say Patek's MM rules are sound.. no professional trader risks 5-10% of their account per trade, gamblers do and certainly not the good ones... what most people forget about is that when your account reaches a decent size and you can carry 50+ lines, the reason for which one focuses in %'s and Ticks rather than $$$ is because the mind wont be able to handle losses in the 10's of thousands.. hence you focus on ticks or account %... so has been my own experience... and no, I dont draw 50+ today but one day I will.

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