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simon jousef's GTR trading room

  #56 (permalink)

Trading Apprentice
miami florida
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 36 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 18 given, 40 received


toulouse-lautrec View Post
I joined them twice for the free session they offer on a weekly basis.
There were two chaps in the room (Bob and Sandy?) discussing trades and some other topics. Almost like a radio show ... The older guy almost sounds like Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys ....

I only listened for 1 -2 hrs each session and was not able to always pay full attention, so take my words with a grain of salt.

From what i saw / heard they were not trading exactly in the same way. One of them basically used a trendline / box breakout method. The other one seemed to position himselves with limit orders around key profile levels / SR levels.
The trendline guy showed his charts and he was watching three different markets all the time.

They were transparent and upfront about which trades they took, on some occasions i saw the chart trader.
As far as i could tell they were making money (sim or live, i don't know).
The trades i saw were apparently executed with 3 contracts, taking off 2 contracts at just a few ticks (3 ticks i think i saw).

What makes me very cautious is when people discuss continuously about how much money you can make theoretically. This for me is always a red flag. It usually starts with some small number, which is supposed to make it sound achievable ("making $200/day should be easy....") and then all of a sudden numbers become bigger and bigger. Then they said if you'd make $200/day consistently any hedge fund would pay you $10M/year to trade for them... yeah, right!

There was a lot of boasting about how they can explain every tick in the market at any time and how they could even teach a monkey how to trade. They also kept mentioning how good Simon, their partner (not present) is, how he would identify turning points to the tick and take huge runners... (how lucky they are they have him and he is not actually trading for one of these hedge funds making millions!)

In summary, from what i saw (and again i cant say i kept watching very closely) it seemed to me that their method revolves around scraping a few ticks off at high probability inflection levels, immediately taking 2/3rds off to reduce risk and hoping to catch the occasional runner.
If it work for them, that's fine, there's worse out there. For me personally this kind of risk management is problematic.
Some may be able to pick up themselves how to trade like that, some may want to pay someone for the service to be taught.

The risk in this style of MM lies in the initial stop. Is it larger (and how much so) than the first PT that peels of 2/3 of the position and then the last held contract is moved to a free trade? Mathematically speaking, all in, all out is a more profitable systems than getting "risk free" after closing 2/3 of your position. How often does that runner materialize; probably not enough and what you discover is lots of scratched trades, some big upside down losers, and lots of commissions.

I'm taking a free trial in a room now where the moderator risks 8 ES ticks to make 3 on 2/3 position and then moves his STP to BE (not entry). When it works out, the "risk free" trades feels good, but when the first trade or two is a loser, you're going to be underwater for the rest of the day. It's a negative expectancy MM style that requires a win rate of 75%+ to make any sense.


Last edited by GuyMM; August 17th, 2015 at 10:50 PM.
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