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simon jousef's GTR trading room

  #44 (permalink)

Elite Member
OMAHA, NEBRASKA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MULTICHARTS + TOS
Broker/Data: TRADESTATION + TOS
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HectorPriamedes's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 29 given, 30 received

FRONT RUNNING MUCH?


Fxfutures1976 View Post
The days I sat in on the trial I did see some success but soon realized when I joined up that its impossible to get any where near the amounts they were totaling.

Simon's trade calls are hard to follow because he calls them as he's pulling the trigger and they are all counter trend trades. I followed the trade calls many times but i never got the positive results that they said they the were getting but the complete opposite.

AND


rocksolid68 View Post
For starters I have never seen them take any trade on Thursday nights. "Volume is too light ...too slow...etc."

I believe they can trade but I also have found you cannot really follow their trades - even in SIM.

Simon makes rapid fire calls "Buy bid! Buy bid!" and then magically gets filled...you do not. Or if you do at a worse price you often get stuffed on a quick stop out.


I tried to quote two people above, hope this works.

I should first declare that I have NOT attended this trading room at all. So what I am about to say is my own theory as to what is going on. I read this thread in its entirety and I want to comment on something that novice traders may not have pieced together which is hazardous to miss.

The two members above both comment on how the announcer Simon shouts his trades at the last moment. Both members above say they were not able to replicate Simon's fills -one member says he could not replicate the results even on a sim account. <--- This is a dead giveaway, as most sims will give you unrealistically good fills.

The reason Simon calls his trades late or at the last minute, is because Simon is Front Running his own clients. He wants to enter in the market before everyone else, so he has the best fill. While getting a good fill by itself is not evil, it's what happens afterward that is both sinister and illegal:

Simon first gets his own fill,
Simon shouts to all the other members "Buy bid! Buy bid!"
The (hundreds?) of members in the room all rush in at once with their bid orders of 3+ contracts each,
The bid is suddenly bombarded with 1000+ contracts, possibly much much more.
It's even probable that at the same moment, some members of the room panic and hit the offer with aggressive limits and market orders,
The market reacts, and jolts up a few ticks, possible much more depending on liquidity.
As a result of this jolt, Simon gets filled on his first profit target of 5 ticks and exits 2/3rds of his position.
Simon has booked real profits and has stellar trading results to post for the trading room's official track record, even if his last contract stops out at break even.
Everyone else has been left in the dust with no fill, or a bad fill that dooms them to take a loss on the trade. Not to mention the stress involved with constantly having results so wildly different than their trade room leader. Their psychology alone at this juncture dooms their trading.

This is why the two members who posted here said they were both unable to replicate Simon's results. Because it is highly likely that Simon is front running. Being that Simon and the other instructors in this room are self proclaimed order flow experts, they will have a tough time convincing a jury that they did not know what they were doing at the time they were doing it. Order flow was their methodology and they used it to exploit their own clients.

In fact, I wonder how often Simon's own students who have sent a market order trying to enter in, have unknowingly been filled when they bought Simon's own sell to close limit orders?

This is really sinister. It's not enough these guys are charging their students thousands of dollars for trading results they know the students can't replicate, but they even front-run their own children to make some extra money on the side. Just wow...

If what I have described is what is actually occurring in that trading room, then Simon (and others) are successfully using exploiting their own clients to front run orders, forcing the market where they want it to go briefly, so they can exit to their benefit, and to their students' detriment. This is illegal. Now if ANY person is running a popular trading room this is probably very easy to do. So guys, why not learn to trade independent of trading rooms altogether?

Front Running financial definition of Front Running

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