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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

  #232 (permalink)

siam, west coast andaman sea
 
Trading Experience: Master
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: gc, cl, tf, 6e
 
nakachalet's Avatar
 
Posts: 512 since Aug 2011


exiledgoblin View Post
It seems we are condemned to talk past each other. I did not say that I took personal responsibility for all of the students who might have failed my courses and I certainly did not take responsibility for the failures of the shirkers. On the other hand, if most of my students failed then my dean would certainly not have accepted the argument that they were all shirkers.

The analogy between a college degree and career success and success after trader training is limited at best. There is a much tighter connection between training and desired outcome in the case of training traders. But even colleges track their alumni and do statistical correlations between earning a degree and career success. So there is nothing ridiculous about finding out how students make out after college. Its done all the time -- all over the world. In your case it would be trivial to survey your students without demanding brokerage statements. Methinks the mentor doth protest too much and too loudly.

A better analogy would be specific technical training that is skill based. I currently work in the IT industry. Not everyone who takes training from me on large enterprise software systems gets it. But 80% of the people in my courses do pass the course, where the conditions for a pass is the demonstrated capacity to install, configure, and administer the systems in question. Apparently trading is different. Most trading students pay good money for instruction and fail to succeed as traders because by your account they are shirkers. Another serious possibility is that the skills are just not transferable.

The problem with your proposed question is that its a "heads I win tails you lose" proposition. How will we define serious dedicated students? Well they are the one's who succeed, of course. So the answer to your version of a good question is that all of the real, dedicated, committed students succeed and the ones who fail, well they just didn't try.

I'm simply asking a basic statistical question: In a given population we have to assume shirkers, workers, dummies, geniuses and so on. We can gerrymander the results by proclaiming the successful ones as the workers and the rest are the shirkers. But this is a self-serving and self-authenticating argument.

Instead we just do the math: we offer a specific course of study. In this case training in a specific task and methodology. If 5% get it and the others do not some of the failures will be attributable to shirking, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to natural genius, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to the training. But in the end a very low success rate can only be attributable to a knowledge transmission failure. The method is teachable only to a select few and the odds of being among the few are very poor. It's simple mathematics.

No one is suggesting that you don't offer quality instruction. But the evidence seems clear: assuming that you have good software, that your mentoring is first rate, that only some of the failure can be written off as lack of effort and commitment then the conclusion seems obvious -- successful trading can be taught to a select few and investing your money in the unlikely prospect that you will be one of the few (if only you try hard enough) is equivalent to buying a lottery ticket.

may i applaud you for an excellent summary of the effectiveness of any teaching and/or training organization that involves dispensing knowledge, skill et al to others, free or fee....

there are just too many traders training schools that naturally assume that when a learner fails to proceed to trade with profitability that the learner does not apply oneself, or that the learner just does not get it; among numerous other often cited reasons.

few operators of those traders training schools would admit that perhaps the success or failure of those learners who summarily must be interested to learn how to trade to profitability, otherwise why would they pay a handsome sums of several thousands u.s. dollars to enroll....; that whether they would become successful or not, also have a lot to do with the processes and methodologies of imparting and transferring imperative knowledge from top down....

personally, i assume that it is important for all those desiring to learn how to trade with profitability to remember that their own fierce desire to succeed as well as the teaching schools' teaching methodologies are equally important, in order for both entities to succeed toward trading with profitability.

well stated sir. much appreciated indeed.

....I'm simply asking a basic statistical question: In a given population we have to assume shirkers, workers, dummies, geniuses and so on. We can gerrymander the results by proclaiming the successful ones as the workers and the rest are the shirkers. But this is a self-serving and self-authenticating argument.

Instead we just do the math: we offer a specific course of study. In this case training in a specific task and methodology. If 5% get it and the others do not some of the failures will be attributable to shirking, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to natural genius, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to the training. But in the end a very low success rate can only be attributable to a knowledge transmission failure. The method is teachable only to a select few and the odds of being among the few are very poor. It's simple mathematics.
....

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