Experience at Live Trading Rooms | Trading Reviews and Vendors

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Trading Reviews and Vendors

Discuss and review vendors of commercial trading products, trading rooms and services, trading indicators or third-party paid add-ons


Experience at Live Trading Rooms

  #197 (permalink)

Erie, PA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7, TWS
Broker/Data: RCG & IB
Favorite Futures: volatility
Posts: 16 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 22 received

Big Mike View Post
Not all vendors are evil. Most seem to be, unfortunately -- but not all.

There are some who are honest people, who do not load up their website with outrageous claims and marketing propaganda, do not promise the holy grail, do not show how to double your account in a month, etc.

These same people have every right to charge for their time. Whether they make hundreds, thousands, or millions from their own trading - they still have a right to treat this venture as a business, and to charge for their time. Their time is valuable. I have no problem coming to that realization.

Of course the real challenge is finding an honest vendor that meets the above criteria. And the users, the customers, they don't make it easy. Why? Because most of them are unwilling to put in any time, learn anything other than a "red to blue" trading system, and expect everything to make them rich. After weeks/months/years of dealing with such people, it is easy to lose your own perspective, as you try to accommodate these customers.

Anyway, I don't recommend any vendors. I recommend futures.io (formerly BMT) I've also turned down 100% of all vendors who have approached me wanting to advertise banners on the site for their trading system, methodology, system, etc. But I also have to say not all vendors are evil, and the argument of "those who can't - teach", while true for the majority, is not true of everyone.

The best thing a typical user trying to learn to trade can do --- ask lots of questions before spending any money, ask specifically what one-on-one personalized training and coaching will be included for you, get a written refund policy, and get a written schedule of what training and materials will be provided for their purchase. If any of the material is over-the-top, too good to be true, or if the vendor is unwilling to provide this material prior to a purchase, then just move on. Personally, I would be looking for a "coach" - not a "system", "indicator", etc.


Having been both a student and a mentor maybe I can lend a different perspective.

There are two big positives to offering training. First, it will definitely improve your trading. The initial impact will be negative as you adjust to everything new (trading in front of an audience, additional commitments on your time, etc.) but if you work your way through those issues there are invaluable benefits to be had. Second, over time you will meet some truly great people. Personally I can't think of two better benefits, or even one.

Unfortunately there are many, many negatives which over time begin to outweigh the positives and usually leads to some kind of burnout. I'll list a few of the big ones but this will not be a complete list.

First, if done properly it is a VERY time consuming endeavor and is really like having a full-time job on top of a full-time job.

Second, there isn't any money in it - at least not compared to what you can make trading - so if this was in any way a motivating factor for starting a training business (and IMO it shouldn't be) then you're going to be disappointed.

Third, the traditional training model is fatally flawed because you have the 'student' contracting the 'mentor' which means the student can do whatever they want, whenever they want, if they want, and the mentor has no leverage to affect changes in behavior.

And this is really a HUGE problem because contrary to popular belief the majority of people are poor-to-very poor students - e.g. poor work ethics, short attention spans, poor listening skills, insufficient time and/or resources, lack of discipline/patience, lack of resolve, unwillingness to venture outside of their comfort zones, etc. etc., etc. - which leads to all kinds of different frustrations and eventually leads to getting fed up with the entire process.

Fourth, and this isn't really a meaningful issue - I'm just including it for my own reasons - you have to tolerate reviews of your service made by people who have no earthly business/qualifications/experience in rendering such judgments.

I was going to list a couple more but I need to stop here so I'm going to close this post with three comments. First, all of the above is based on my own experience, and from that experience I can tell you flat out that I can't envision a scenario where I would ever be interested in offering training again.

Second, IMO people need to rethink how they view - and treat - vendors. Now I'm well aware of the ratio of charlatans to the good guys (and more so than most), but the way you folks do it now is reminiscent of the prisoner's dilemma.

And lastly, if you still think a legitimate mentor/vendor should offer a refund, well, you're bloody nuts. Or you just have better drugs than me.....

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